American Politics during the Bush Presidency

The Messiah's lead in the Zogby tracking poll appears to be draining away too.

Down from +6.2 a week ago to +3.9 today.

[quote]The latest figures showed a bump for McCain following Wednesday's final presidential debate.

"Today was the first full sample post-debate and there's a clear indication that McCain is moving up," Zogby said.

He added that McCain's support among Republican voters appeared to be consolidating.[/QUOTE]Still plenty of time for this thing to change one way or another. However, what amazes me is that the supporters of a guy whose entire lead is based on a stock market panic think the game is over. And we haven't even started to factor in the Bradley effect, either.

I had an interesting conversation with a friend the other day. He's a classic swing voter, voted for Clinton once and W once. He confided that this time he's voting for McCain, but is not letting anybody know it for fear of being branded a racist. This followed a similar conversation with a cousin of mine last weekend whose words were almost identical. It may mean nothing. But it tracks an interesting article I also read this morning.

[url]http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/10/16/frj_1016/[/url]

[QUOTE=Sidney]The Obomination and you supporters have convinced me that this is necessary. Could each of you send me 10% of your net worth? I will manage this fund using stocks, bonds, and commodities. The profits will be used to help the unfortunates. Who is willing contribute and / or serve on the Board of Directors?[/QUOTE]Hi Sid,

I'd be comfortable with [u]you[/u] managing my portfolio, but do we have to give my earnings to "the unfortunates"?

Thanks,

Jackson

[quote=Stowe]You make a good point except Iraq NEVER attacked us!!!! Don't you realize that yet??[/quote][QUOTE=Daddy Rulz]Yes Jax we were attacked, by 19 Saudis and another guy from somewhere else, Trenton NJ I think. I remember seeing it on TV, I haven't forgotten. And for anybody who has forgotten, Rudy Giuliani will remind them.

Yes we are in a war, but strangely not with the people that attacked us, kind of like invading Sweden in 41 for the attack on Pearl Harbor no?[/QUOTE]Okay guys, I'll explain this again for those of you who didn't understand it the first several times.

We were attacked by a stateless organization named Al Qaeda.

To fight them, we established a battleground in another country and invited them to attack us there, which they did with all the intelligence of lemmings rushing into the sea, and where we have summarily decimated their "troops".

Get it?

Thanks,

Jackson

[QUOTE=Daddy Rulz]Fucking Pelosi Congress sucks, you don't stop a war by not funding it. I'm not so naive to think we can just say "whups our bad we fucked up so now we are gonna take our shit and go." I don't pretend to understand how a country can make a monumental mistake such as our invasion of Irak and then disengage from a conflict like that. [/quote]We really must be nearing the end of the world; Daddy actually said something bad about a democrat. Are you being facetious or is the earth really flat?

[QUOTE=Daddy Rulz]I haven't forgotten Afghanistan that would be the Shrubies that forgot that place. I was never in opposition to the little regime change thingy we did there. [/quote]Why did you favor this “little regime change thingy ”? Didn ’t you say “we were attacked, by 19 Saudis and another guy from somewhere else, Trenton NJ I think ”?

[QUOTE=Daddy Rulz] Do you really write a check when you buy a new truck? Union graft must be pretty good if you can do that. But then again trucks are pretty cheap these days. [/QUOTE]Daddy with the exception of my house if I can ’t pay for it, I don ’t buy it! I subscribe to this kind of old school thinking that people should live within or below their means. (Silly me)

I dumped the union about the same time I dumped Jimmy Carter and for the most part the Democrat party. (I have however voted for some democrats since then. Gasp!)

BTW did you know a filibuster-proof majority of 60 seats in the Senate – is something we haven ’t seen since Jimmy Carter 30 years ago, and that was a fucking disaster!

If trucks are that cheap down in that desert you live in “my brother ” I would like to remind you Christmas is coming and I like red this year.

[QUOTE= Thomas Jefferson] To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, 'the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry, and the fruits acquired by it.' [/quote]

[QUOTE=Sidney]So far no money pledges. BTW, I will charge no management fees. The Board will choose ''the unfortunates'', who will benefit from our ''liberal'' generosity! C'Mon guys, send me your pledges. It is the right thing to do![/QUOTE]I'm all in favor of taking DaddyRulz's, Stormy's and Stowe's money and "spreading it around" to the poor unfortunates. It's only fair for them to walk their talk! :D

Unfortunately, we cannot bring about George Bush and the conservatives socialist utopia without the active participation of the big bucks guys like Hunt, Sydney, and Jackson. We, the Daddys and Stowes et. al have contributed about all we had for money into the incompetence, greed, and corruption of the conservatives. We are tapped out and it is time you big bucks guys to step up to the plate and give as I am sure you generously will as the funnel is turned the other way.

[QUOTE=Stormy]Unfortunately, we cannot bring about George Bush and the conservatives socialist utopia without the active participation of the big bucks guys like Hunt, Sydney, and Jackson. We, the Daddys and Stowes et. Al have contributed about all we had for money into the incompetence, greed, and corruption of the conservatives. We are tapped out and it is time you big bucks guys to step up to the plate and give as I am sure you generously will as the funnel is turned the other way.[/QUOTE]Me pay taxes to the Socialist Utopia? You must be joking. I'm going to hide everything from the Obama IRS and engage in massive tax fraud, just like anybody else with a little bit of money and a lick of sense is going to do. Check out how well the economy does then! ;) As things stand, the government takes a third of everything I earn. When they jack it to 50% like The One promises to do, it's time to pack it in and turn scrooge.

On the other hand, I have no qualms about expropriating property from true believers like yourself and giving "tax cuts" (cough - welfare - cough) to the lazy amongst us. And free health insurance for 25 million illegal aliens, too, let's not forget that little bit of The Messiah's agenda.

[QUOTE=Stormy]Unfortunately, we cannot bring about George Bush and the conservatives socialist utopia without the active participation of the big bucks guys like Hunt, Sydney, and Jackson. We, the Daddys and Stowes et. Al have contributed about all we had for money into the incompetence, greed, and corruption of the conservatives. We are tapped out and it is time you big bucks guys to step up to the plate and give as I am sure you generously will as the funnel is turned the other way.[/QUOTE]Take a look at the table on this web page from a left wing, pro-Democrat group, the Citizens for Tax Justice. Look at the column labeled "Income tax":

[url]http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxshares.pdf[/url]

Note that the top 1% of taxpayers paid 39.1% of income taxes for 2007. If the Bush tax cuts hadn't been passed, the top 1% would have paid 37.4% of income taxes. Same goes for the next 4% of taxpayers. The wealthiest pay a higher percentage, AFTER the Bush tax cuts. The reason, people have more incentive to earn income if it's not all being taxed away. If you're a corporation, there's not much incentive to pay any dividends if your shareholders are going to pay 39.6% tax on the dividends (vs. 15% with Bush cuts) If the capital gains tax is lower, shareholders and business owners are more likely to sell and take a profit instead of holding on forever to avoid paying tax.

Stormy, like the Citizens for Tax Justice and most Democrats, seems to believe that it makes more sense for everyone to share a smaller piece of a smaller pie, if we can just fuck the rich. You're nuts Stormy.

[QUOTE=Jackson]Okay guys, I'll explain this again for those of you who didn't understand it the first several times.

We were attacked by a stateless organization named Al Qaeda.

To fight them, we established a battleground in another country and invited them to attack us there, which they did with all the intelligence of lemmings rushing into the sea, and where we have summarily decimated their "troops".

Get it?

Thanks,

Jackson[/QUOTE]I guess it is you who just doesn't understand.

Al Qaeda WASN'T in Iraq until after the bushman took our Sadam. We could have just stayed in Afghanistan where we ALREADY had a 'battleground' and let the crazies come to us there. There was no reason to invade Iraq just so we could 'fight them there rather than here'. That would have been achieved by our presence in Afghanistan.

Do you get it now?

Suerte.

Stowe

[QUOTE=Hunt99]I'm all in favor of taking DaddyRulz's, Stormy's and Stowe's money and "spreading it around" to the poor unfortunates. It's only fair for them to walk their talk!:D[/QUOTE]I am willing to 'walk my talk'. I am willing to pay my share of taxes. That is how this country became as great as it 'was'. Roads, water, sewer, electricity to almost every house in the country. Dams that provide us more water than any other country. All of those, and MUCH more came from government projects, not private enterprise. None of this could have happened by private enterprise because the profit margin wouldn't be there.

Except for one LITTLE fact that you just don't seem to get, under Obama's plan I will get a tax cut, unlike under McAngryOldGuy. Having said that, I think any tax cuts in our current situation is not the correct direction to go-perhaps in 2 or 3 years.

Suerte

The problem is, it just doesn't trickle-down like it used to. The Bush years have managed to provide an amazing transfer of wealth so that now one per cent have twenty per cent of the wealth. If I was in the one per cent I would be depressed as well at the looming prospect. You have my full sympathy. I, too, know the frustration of my party's political failure and the turning over of power to lunatics. Especially lunatics with the Presidency and both Houses of Congress in the same party. I'm just saying that it seems like the pendulum is swinging the other way.

[QUOTE=Hunt99]Me pay taxes to the Socialist Utopia? You must be joking. I'm going to hide everything from the Obama IRS and engage in massive tax fraud, just like anybody else with a little bit of money and a lick of sense is going to do. Check out how well the economy does then!;) As things stand, the government takes a third of everything I earn. When they jack it to 50% like The One promises to do, it's time to pack it in and turn scrooge.

On the other hand, I have no qualms about expropriating property from true believers like yourself and giving "tax cuts" (cough - welfare - cough) to the lazy amongst us. And free health insurance for 25 million illegal aliens, too, let's not forget that little bit of The Messiah's agenda.[/QUOTE]You just provide another example of the dishonesty (crookedness-corruption?) of so many Republicans. If you truly believe this and intend on doing as stated (and I suspect you mean it whether you do it or not) that indicates a total lack of have integrity or honesty. No surprise there!

Unlike you, and almost every other Repub that posts here, you never post a negative about anything Republican. I don't agree with everything that Obama (or the Dems) proposes, like his position on illegal aliens, but I disagree with ALMOST everything that the Republicans stand for in this day and age. Just look at their tactics. All they spew is fear and hate, fear and hate. That is the Republican platform nowadays: fear and hate.

[QUOTE=Tiny12]Take a look at the table on this web page from a left wing, pro-Democrat group, the Citizens for Tax Justice. Look at the column labeled "Income tax":

[url]http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxshares.pdf[/url]

Note that the top 1% of taxpayers paid 39.1% of income taxes for 2007. If the Bush tax cuts hadn't been passed, the top 1% would have paid 37.4% of income taxes. Same goes for the next 4% of taxpayers. The wealthiest pay a higher percentage, AFTER the Bush tax cuts. The reason, people have more incentive to earn income if it's not all being taxed away. If you're a corporation, there's not much incentive to pay any dividends if your shareholders are going to pay 39.6% tax on the dividends (vs. 15% with Bush cuts) If the capital gains tax is lower, shareholders and business owners are more likely to sell and take a profit instead of holding on forever to avoid paying tax.

Stormy, like the Citizens for Tax Justice and most Democrats, seems to believe that it makes more sense for everyone to share a smaller piece of a smaller pie, if we can just fuck the rich. You're nuts Stormy.[/QUOTE]Warren Buffett believe that he, and all the rich, should be contributing more in taxes. He fears for the economic survival of middle class which is what made the US the economic powerhouse of the world. Without the middle class, the US would be a microcosm of what it is.

The Reagan trickle down theory has been proven to be nothing but a shame. And all stats indicate that the rich are getting richer and the poor and middle class are going bye, bye. Salaries the last 10 years for the middle class have decreased, when adjusted for inflation, while for the rich they have increased at a higher rate that any time in, something like, the past 40 years.

I would not consider him 'crazy'.