ATM's

[QUOTE=El Queso]Jackson - the difference is that it was ONLY for VISA in the past. The frustration (and surprise, indignant reaction, etc) is that it now, out of the blue, hit Master Card as well. Two years later.[/QUOTE]I pulled $1,200p using my USAA Mastercard debit card March 28. If I get the 300p treatment next time it's going to be a major aggravation. In addition to the local banks amassing their little fortune with increased fees, this also puts pressure on expats to open an account here. I would guess the banks aren't unaware of that, though I might be giving them too much credit.

[QUOTE=Tessan]If you have an HSBC account, then you probably don't have a ATM fee. But if you don't, then I guess there is one. So all the non HSBC account holder, get hit with extra fees. I have not tried it out, but I could with my Citi card, on the hsbc bank. Don't like fees, so I us my commerce bank card instead of my Citi card, when using a third party bank.[/QUOTE]I have a HSBC ATM card, they charge 3% for int'l transactions even if you go to a HSBC ATM. This started end of last year. Citibank I think charges 2%. I also have PNC which reimburses their fee and the other bank's fee if you have a certain monthly avg balance. Last year they reimbursed me almost 100 in fees. They must hate me since I don't use it ever as a check card lol.

With MasterCard and VISA its 3% for int'l transactions. But there are some out there that give you bonus points or % cash back for restaurants. My Chase card gives 3% back at restaurants so it offsets the 3% fee whenever I eat at a restaurant abroad. It works out especially well at clubs since they mostly bill under as a restaurant.

Amex charges 2% for international transactions and gives 1-5% as cash back or points depending on the type of transaction.

These are some of the ways I avoid fees lol.

If you guys are going to complain, at least you should complain about the right things, and take action on them. Why are you complaining about the measly part of 1% the Argentine banks are getting for maintaining an operating machine full of cash, while at the same time you are paying a 2% or 3% International Transaction Fee to the US bank which is actually SAVING money on this deal instead of a check or teller transaction? And not complaining about it? The US bank fee is a horrible ripoff, the amount that Visa or MC pays the Argentine banks is probably barely enough to cover their costs.

I made a post about all of these fees in this thread a while ago: [post]377953[/post]. Obviously, nobody paid much attention, and nobody actually read their Terms and Conditions.

Incidently, the Argentine bank has to be paid out of the 1% currency conversion fee that Visa or MC charges. So it isn't likely to be more than 25 cents or so for a 300 peso withdrawal, where Visa or MC gets $1. By the way, there is some confusion over this 1% charge. If you read the terms and conditions, they talk about the credit card company using an average WHOLESALE rate for the exchange, and then adding 1% to that. That often is close to the RETAIL rate that you see in the exchange houses, so it can look like the charge is not there.

Also, I was wrong when I said you could avoid the 1% fee by bringing cash. You actually can't avoid it completely, because there is always a spread of about 1% to change the $ to pesos. There is no way to change one currency to another without paying on the order of 1% on the spread between buy / sell, and paying retail.

So why not post some useful info on US banks that don't charge the theiving International Transaction Fees and Foreign ATM Fees, so people can switch accounts? Both are fees for which the bank does absolutely NOTHING, and in fact saves money.

National Penn Bank in Pennsylvania charges me no ATM fees.

Also, we are lucky with this small fee. I suspect there is a technical reason that the Arg networks don't charge an ATM fee. This may change at any time. As I said in the post, in Paraguay there is only one network and they now charge GS25000($5.80 currently) on every withdrawal AT EVERY BANK. The fee for locals is about GS3700($.86) which is actually very high, considering the amount they withdraw. But you can withdraw at least $500 on one pull, so it is about 1+% then. This should give you some idea of what is in our future in Argentina.

Interesting info. I checked my statement and althought the three pulls showed up without any extra fees, the exchange rate was 3.07 pesos to the dollar. They are taking the charge in a hidden foreign transaction fee.

[QUOTE=Thomaso276]Interesting info. I checked my statement and althought the three pulls showed up without any extra fees, the exchange rate was 3.07 pesos to the dollar. They are taking the charge in a hidden foreign transaction fee.[/QUOTE]Looks likes a 2-3% surcharge.

What's wrong with bringing cash with you?

I always bring enough pesos to get me through the first few days. However, the exchange rate that I get in Canada is not nearly as good as the ATM rate here.

Next year I will bring more or change banks as the RBC is charging me $5 per withdrawal or approximately 5% service charge for essentially providing no service.

Yep-my limit now with the mastercard debit card from USAA is 300p. Regardless of which assholes are to blame, this is a nasty inconvenience for expats who are in BA for more than a vacation.

You have my sympathy Dogg; I think it’s a nasty inconvenience even if you are on vacation.

Just another BsAs negative, for me the list is growing.

[QUOTE=Punter 127]You have my sympathy Dogg; I think it's a nasty inconvenience even if you are on vacation. Just another BsAs negative, for me the list is growing.[/QUOTE]Agreed Punter. Maybe I am being a little irrational but this kind of bullshit REALLY gets under my skin. Clearly this fee harvesting (as I have heard it termed) is aimed at the tourist crowd. An inconvenience for them, but even more so for those of us who are here pretty much year round. I'll be exploring ways of coping with it, but you are right. Another point on the negative list added to the near hyperinflation.

[QUOTE=Doggboy]Yep-my limit now with the mastercard debit card from USAA is 300p. Regardless of which assholes are to blame, this is a nasty inconvenience for expats who are in BA for more than a vacation.[/QUOTE]Go 10 or 15 straight days to the ATM, pay with 100 peso bills at restaurants and bring dollars or Euro´s with you from your home country for rents.

You should be okay then.

[QUOTE=Redondo]Go 10 or 15 straight days to the ATM, pay with 100 peso bills at restaurants and bring dollars or Euro's with you from your home country for rents.

You should be okay then[/QUOTE]Is this on the level or some very dry sarcasm? As I mentioned, the ATM situation is an inconvenience. Going to the freakin' ATM "10 or 15 straight days" qualifies as inconvenient in my book. In addition, I do bring alot of cash here for rent. And, what benefit would one derive from paying with 100p notes at restaurants? Having enough change is not the issue here. Having access to an adequate and reasonable amount of dollars through the ATM system without having to get gouged in the process is the issue. And, to further illustrate the point, if you do bring enough dollars in country to pay for rent and so much else over the period of a year, where do you keep that money? Why of course, under your mattress, or in the very banking system that is not only fucking you, but has a history of fucking their own people without lube.

Well, it appears to be just a foreign card issue. My lead programmer just confirmed that he can pull out the limit of his bank at ATM machines, which is 2000 pesos.

His card is a Visa debit card. His girlfriend's is a MasterCard debit card.

I don't know enough about how all of this internal financing works to comment, excpet for the fact that it sucks very bad for those of us who live here.

BTW - he swears that his bank will allow foreigners to open an account with nothing more than a passport. No tax ID or anything. He called one day while we were having an MSN discussion about this, and actually called two different times, talking to two different people and actually got the same answer (I don't know about the tax id part of this though. That seems a little far-fetched.

The bank is Banco Galicia. You have to go to their main headquarters branch to do this (according to the conversations my programmer ahd with their represenatives) but it is possible to do so.

Of course, then the only problem that you will have is that you will have to wire money to your account (maybe not too much of an issue, depending on whom you bank with in your country and what kind of facilities for wiing you have) but more of a problem, you will be on the Argentine government's radar if you pull in more than $2K a month (I think that's the limit that seems to hit their tax button).

And of course, the whole issue of putting your money in a system that is hardly trustworthy. But perhaps just having a monthly sum in trust is not too bad a thing for the convenience...

[QUOTE=Doggboy]Is this on the level or some very dry sarcasm? As I mentioned, the ATM situation is an inconvenience. Going to the freakin' ATM "10 or 15 straight days" qualifies as inconvenient in my book. In addition, I do bring alot of cash here for rent. And, what benefit would one derive from paying with 100p notes at restaurants? Having enough change is not the issue here. Having access to an adequate and reasonable amount of dollars through the ATM system without having to get gouged in the process is the issue. And, to further illustrate the point, if you do bring enough dollars in country to pay for rent and so much else over the period of a year, where do you keep that money? Why of course, under your mattress, or in the very banking system that is not only fucking you, but has a history of fucking their own people without lube.[/QUOTE]You could also go every 3 or 4 days to the ATM and if you go at 23.00h you can pick up 2 daily limits (one at 22.59 and 23.01, depends on your time zone in the USA)

Paying with the 100 bills saves you with the hassle to pay with 100 peso bill. I normally have about 20 to 30 small bills of 50-20-10-5-2 which I use to pay the small things.

I don't know about you but I have always lived near an ATM and either way I go almost every day to a place where a ATM is near, I don't really consider it to be a hassle to go to a ATM sometimes.

9900 dollar is 99 100 dollar bills or 12 500 euro's bills. Especially the last one is easy to hide and either way the only entering in my room is the maid and she would probally not risk stealing as she is the only one who enters in my room.

I go back 2,3 times a year and I always take around 8 to 10.000 dollar with me to pay for the rents. The bigger expense like clothes and tickets I pay with creditcard and my daily expenses I pay with pesos.

P. S. I can pick up 500 euro a day with my bank card, 3000 euro a month with my CC and for my banking card there is no charge. Probally a small exchange-rate difference, but I could care less

First rates by my bank, second by oanda.

4-4-2008 1 euro for 4,88 - 1/4,95 - 1,5%

1-4-2008 1 euro for 4,95 - 1/5,00 - 1,0%

29-3-2008 1 euro for 4,94 - 1/4,99 - 1,0%

So that would be a fee of around 1%

[QUOTE=El Queso]BTW - he swears that his bank will allow foreigners to open an account with nothing more than a passport. No tax ID or anything. He called one day while we were having an MSN discussion about this, and actually called two different times, talking to two different people and actually got the same answer (I don't know about the tax id part of this though. That seems a little far-fetched.

The bank is Banco Galicia. You have to go to their main headquarters branch to do this (according to the conversations my programmer ahd with their represenatives) but it is possible to do so.[/QUOTE]Do you know where the headquarters is located?

Went to Citi today on Santa Fe and pulled 1000p as a test for a Smith Barney FMA Mastercard. Lots of options came up on the screen (like 2500 pesos) I got 3.16 rate but will check my account tommorrow to see if they took a fee. They had told me they charge 1% for int'l charges. Alot better than 3% from HSBC.

The 3% is such a rip because it is HSBC account and local branch (sort of with Arg banking BS) and because they sell themselves as an international bank!

Think about it; at 3000 dollars monthly 3% will cost you over 1000 bucks a year. As it is, if I change my personal financial system it still cost me 360 bucks a year.

[QUOTE=Thomaso276]Went to Citi today on Santa Fe and pulled 1000p as a test for a Smith Barney FMA Mastercard. Lots of options came up on the screen (like 2500 pesos) I got 3.16 rate but will check my account tommorrow to see if they took a fee. They had told me they charge 1% for int'l charges. Alot better than 3% from HSBC.

The 3% is such a rip because it is HSBC account and local branch (sort of with Arg banking BS) and because they sell themselves as an international bank!

Think about it; at 3000 dollars monthly 3% will cost you over 1000 bucks a year. As it is, if I change my personal financial system it still cost me 360 bucks a year.[/QUOTE]Nice work. Keep us informed. If we can find a failsafe card to use that would save a bunch of us alot of hassle.

Thanks for the info on Citibank. I've found in Asia that they often have the highest limits, so when / if I need to change some money, I'll find one to change at.

Here's info on ING's Electric Orange account from their website:

Foreign Transaction. If you use your Card for a foreign transaction (any transaction made in a foreign currency or that MasterCard® classifies as a cross-border transaction) a charge of 2% of the foreign transaction amount will be applied (if it ’s in a foreign currency, this will be based on the amount after it ’s converted to U. S. Dollars by MasterCard®) This is in addition to what MasterCard® may charge as part of converting the purchase to U. S. Dollars.

You can bring more then 10.000 dollar into the country but then you could be asked to explain the orgins of your money.

I however have never been asked to empty my pockets and I wouldn't be to scared to bring more then 10.000 dollar with me.

But most foreigners can probally pay there rents with 10.000 dollar a year.

I got over 1200 pesos out of a Citibank ATM using a US issued Mastercard debit card. I don't know if they tacked any extra fees in, but at least I was able to ge it in one transaction.

[QUOTE=Jaimito Cartero]I got over 1200 pesos out of a Citibank ATM using a US issued Mastercard debit card. I don't know if they tacked any extra fees in, but at least I was able to ge it in one transaction.[/QUOTE]Let's hope that's good news. Is that a Citibank card or something else?

[QUOTE=Doggboy]Let's hope that's good news. Is that a Citibank card or something else?[/QUOTE]Nope, Paypal.

I've been using Commerce Bank. If you keep 2,500 or 3,500 can't remember the amount, in your checking account, they pay all your ATM fees for you, anywhere in the world. I withdraw yesterday 1500 peso at Banko Galicia, 5 – 300 peso transaction. There are no fees, withdraw was 476.35. So I got an exchange rate of 3.1489. There are no other fees. I've been here since January, never any other fees other then the exchange rate.

Commerce bank told me they do not set the exchange rate. The bank the owns the ATM does. Do not know if that true or not.

Thanks Tessan for verifying the Commerce Bank.

Because I had ATM issues last time, and worse ones in Amsterdam at Xmas, I took out a decent sum and parked it @ Commerce. Which is right down the street from me.

The real test will be in Frankfurt and Amsterdam next month. But now I know I am good in Buenos Aires.

Best Regards.

Smuler

I ran into a problem this trip in Europe. I use an ATM card linked to a savings account at my regular bank (USAA) but I couldn't use the card in Bosnia, Croatia, or Germany. None of the ATMs gave the option of savings vs checking accounts. Never had a problem with it in Thailand, Singapore, Indonesia, or Argentina. My CapitalOne ATM card worked fine even though it was also linked to a savings account but maybe that's because it's my only CapitalOne account.

I don't like to carry the ATM card for my USAA checking account because it is a debit card as well and debit cards are more vulnerable than plain ATM cards.

Live and learn. I ditched my Citibank account after getting hammered with fees last month in BA.

I've run into similar problems with ATMs not giving the option of withdrawals from checking and savings accounts (I can't remember now which countries) As a result, though, I've taken the precaution of transferring funds from savings to checking before I leave the US. If I don't spend it all, I transfer the balance back (but be sure to keep track of minimum balance requirements - that cost me a bank charge)

I went to Citibank to withdraw some today, and found 2 out of 3 machines were out of cash. It didn't even say "Out of Cash", but instead, "Technical Problems". This was in the middle of the day, on a Wednesday, so a bit surprising.

[QUOTE=Jaimito Cartero]I went to Citibank to withdraw some today, and found 2 out of 3 machines were out of cash. It didn't even say "Out of Cash", but instead, "Technical Problems". This was in the middle of the day, on a Wednesday, so a bit surprising.[/QUOTE]Maybe with everyone finding out they can get more then 300p form the Citibank ATM, they are getting allot more business and running out of cash faster.

I've bumped up against the $AR320 limit this trip. The same USAA (Cirrus) card in the same ATM (Banco Industrial near Las Herras / Puyerredon) gave me $AR1200 in March, but limits me $AR320 now. It's only a minor PITA as my banks (USAA, CapitalOne) don't charge a transaction fee overseas so I just make multiple withdrawals. But it's a major hosing for anyone using a fee per transaction card.

I tried my CapitalOne card (Plus) in Banelco and Link ATMs with the same result. I'll try a Citibank next time I'm near one.

After about a year of having the 320p /$100 USD limitation in place on VISA / LINK transactions, things have changed again - at least for me on this given day:

BANK: Banco Nacion.

CARD: Visa Plus, using a LINK ATM.

DATE: 30 April, 15:09

1st Withdrawal: 340p.

2nd Withdrawal: 380p.

3rd Withdrawal: 520p.

At this point I had reached my $400 USD Daily limit, so could not continue to try higher withdrawal amount. If someone has a VISA ATM card and uses the LINK system, try withdrawing about 1250p to see if we are back to the "old rules". Look forward to your reports.

Ok, I just went and used my Visa at a Link ATM and the transaction limit is now 650. However, after 2 withdrawals of 650 I tried a third one and it said I exceeded my withdrawal limit. For the third transaction I was able to get 300, for a total of 1600.

[QUOTE=Duddehaha]Ok, I just went and used my Visa at a Link ATM and the transaction limit is now 650. However, after 2 withdrawals of 650 I tried a third one and it said I exceeded my withdrawal limit. For the third transaction I was able to get 300, for a total of 1600.[/QUOTE]I pulled 400p out of Rio Santander today. Previously this location had limited me to 300p. I just made the one pull. Maybe some slack has been cut.

Hi there,

Worked for me at the HSBC bank over Maure St. I was able to pull 500 p. Each time.

Here is the link:

[url]http://www.animap.com.ar/default.asp?sec=buscar_direccion_mapa&opcion=%5bACTION%3dOPCION%5d%5bPAIS%3dARGENTINA%5d%5bPROVINCIA%3dCAPITAL%20FEDERAL%5d%5bCIUDAD%3dCAPITAL%20FEDERAL%5d%5bLOCALIDAD%3dCIUDAD%20AUTONOMA%20DE%20BUENOS%20AIRES%5d%5bCALLE1%3dMIGUELETES%5d%5bCALLE2%3dMAURE%5d%5bALTURA%3d%5d%5bPOSX%3d%2d58%2e435192%5d%5bPOSY%3d%2d34%2e565780%5d%5bZOOM%3d3%5d%5bUSUARIO%3d1000%5d%5bUSERIP%3d201%2e250%2e113%2e85%5d%5bLAYERS%3d%5d[/url]

Regards,

I received an email today from the local US Embassy (if you get on their email list, you will get one here and there) They have been investigating (or so they say) the ATM withdrawl issue due to the high number of expat complaints. In one breath they report that they have been unable to determine the cause for the 300p limit. In their next statement they report that VISA and MASTERCARD have recently raised the limit to 600p. Uh, am I missing something or were the culprits just identified?

Sid: what was the exchange rate for this HSBC pull?

[QUOTE=Doggboy]I received an email today from the local US Embassy (if you get on their email list, you will get one here and there) They have been investigating (or so they say) the ATM withdrawl issue due to the high number of expat complaints. In one breath they report that they have been unable to determine the cause for the 300p limit. In their next statement they report that VISA and MASTERCARD have recently raised the limit to 600p. Uh, am I missing something or were the culprits just identified?[/QUOTE]Looks like they raised the limit to 600p from 300p. I am able to pull it at banks where I could only get 300p before.

The lady at HSBC told me a few months ago, it was visa that was limiting the amount I could pull in one shot. I do not think she is right. The reason I don't think she is right, is that at Citibank you can pull more. I was able to pull 1500p, a while back. Citicards are MasterCard, so it should be limited if MasterCard is limiting it. My guess is that it's the people who run the ATM that 95% of the banks use, the one that has the big read BANCO on the screen when you go in. HSBC uses it, so does almost all the banks. Citibank probably uses their own ATM, it looks different, and so they set their own limits. Someone told me he could pull 2000p per transaction from the Citibank ATM. I have not check the Citibank in a while, since I pay no fee per transaction, my bank pays the fee for me, if I keep a high enough balance. I just go to the closes bank, and do more the one transaction.

The people who own that atm system, almost have a monopoly, so they can screw people into doing multiple transactions, and make several times the money they would have made. Even if a few people boycott them, they still make more money on the multiple pulls tourist and other people who doe not know better make. They control 95% of the atm in BA, only Citibank that I know of, does not use them. Anyone know of another bank, that uses a different atm network?

I think Citibank charges a 1% transaction fee.

This quote is from 4-7-08. The exchange rate was better then i was getting, at that time. But if you take 1% off, then i was getting a better rate. Think i was getting 3.145, then with no fees.

[QUOTE=Thomaso276]Went to Citi today on Santa Fe and pulled 1000p as a test for a Smith Barney FMA Mastercard. Lots of options came up on the screen (like 2500 pesos) I got 3.16 rate but will check my account tommorrow to see if they took a fee. They had told me they charge 1% for int'l charges. Alot better than 3% from HSBC.

The 3% is such a rip because it is HSBC account and local branch (sort of with Arg banking BS) and because they sell themselves as an international bank!

Think about it; at 3000 dollars monthly 3% will cost you over 1000 bucks a year. As it is, if I change my personal financial system it still cost me 360 bucks a year.[/QUOTE]

I have a non-Visa / MC ATM card (no one takes their 1 percent) and have had no issues with limits up toi 600 pesos. Haven't tried higher amounts.

The only problem was finding a machine that accepted it. The banks on Florida - I tried a couple including Citi - would not take it. But I had no problem with Citi on Callao / Alvear and another Banelco ATM a little up Callao toward Quintana.

For those who don't know - I use a Capital 1 Visa, and Capital 1 Savings account ATM card, when traveling. They are the best values out there.