Argentine Economy

[QUOTE=Wild Walleye]"Don't sell yourself short, you're quite a slouch"

Name that movie.[/QUOTE]Caddyshack

I had been following Argentina's political and economic situation for the past year or so. Seemed like the cost of living was increasing and that the entire system was a house of cards that was probably going to fall within the next 24 months.

Then, I ran into this article that paints an entirely different picture -

[url]http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-06-03/argentine-bank-stocks-may-rally-on-economy-debt-swap-update2-.html[/url]

So, the question is - what the real story on the ground in Argentina now?

OK. I have spent most of this day catching up on my reading. (I have spent the last two months in the DR and, well, I did not read much)

But, I will tell you, the DR ain't cheap like it was 3 - 4 years ago. It made me appreciate Cali, Colombia. I have friends still living in Cali and Medellin. Some live happily for as little as 1300 US dollars a month - including rent. Others blow 3500 monthly and live like KINGS. For only 2,000 - you are pretty happy.

Seems like much is changing in Argentina nowadays. I doubt any Yankees are getting by on just 1500 bucks a month and are happy about it. I get the feeling, that in general, Argentina is about as expensive as Miami.

Is that about the truth of it?

That would mean that many locals are sinking below the poverty line. Only bad shit can happen then.

After the peso devaluation, my trips to Buenos Aires and Bangkok for the most part tended to be about the same dollar value for many years. Not exactly when, but maybe about 3-4 years ago, Argentina inflation started to put more of a dent in my pocket. I often described to my friends that BA was Europe at Bangkok prices. It is no longer so.

So, "heaven" would be 3 months of Bangkok alternating with 1 month of BA. So that would make it 3 roundtips a year! Malaysia Airlines does fly KL-BA through South Africa but the fare is never discounted. A few years ago, I actually met some male flight stewards in Cafe Exedra and took them to Cattos.

[QUOTE=Iam Zon]Seems like much is changing in Argentina nowadays. I doubt any Yankees are getting by on just 1500 bucks a month and are happy about it. I get the feeling, that in general, Argentina is about as expensive as Miami.

Is that about the truth of it?[/QUOTE]While inflation here in BsAs is not pretty, the cost of living does not compare to Miami. I think it's the "incidentals" that batter you in Miami (and the states for that matter) There's a huge difference in utility costs and other things, plus the nickel and dimeing that goes on here is light years away from the big hand in your pocket in the states. And, we're not even talking about health care.

I found an interesting poll on a expat Argentine discussion board. 35% report living on less than 1K per month. Few report living on over 2K per month. (I get the impression that the audience is made up of budget conscious / coupon cutters) Never the less, it does give an impression.

I have a couple follow up points to raise if anyone cares to comment:

1, how is the general population adjusting to the inflation. Obviously, there is a large lower class that at some point will become discontent - how does this affect Argentinian's view of visitors / tourists?

2, Getting out of BA proper, the economic realities are better for the citizens?

3, What are the most likely economic trends throughout the next 24 - 36 months?

If I wanted to I can live comfortably for 1500 pesos. But I have my own house and there for don't don't have to pay rent or a mortgage. It all depends how you want to spend your money.

I live on around 2,000 USD per month, but that includes:

- Living in an overpriced furnished apartment in a cheto neighborhood. If I wanted to sign a two year lease, I could cut my rent in half.

- Eating out almost everyday.

- Taking taxi everywhere.

- A massage therapist that comes to my house once per week (therapeutic, not full service)

This doesn't include mongering, traveling, etc. Just day to day expenses.

I could easily live here on 1500 USD per month or even less if I weren't so lazy.

So, including dating, fun and recreation (whatever that means) taking out dating frustrations on whoever the lucky girl happens to be at the message parlor from time to time. 2 - 3 grand per month would do it nicely?

(cheaper than I thought, actually. I spent a couple months in the DR and I kept finding myself say under my breath - damn this place has gotten expensive. BA seems much cheaper than the DR based upon the recent posts I have read - inflation and all)

[QUOTE=Iam Zon]So, including dating, fun and recreation (whatever that means) taking out dating frustrations on whoever the lucky girl happens to be at the message parlor from time to time. 2 - 3 grand per month would do it nicely?[/QUOTE]I think you could live comfortably on 2k, like a king on 3k. Lodging will be the biggest part of your budget. I rent a "tourist" apartment. It's furnished and includes all utilities, but is still way overpriced. Renting a "normal" apartment, while cheaper, generally requires a two year lease and your first born as a deposit.

The biggest increase in prices I have seen is eating in restaurants in Palermo. I spent 63 pesos for lunch, which not so long ago was closer to 50.

I should add, I wear jeans and t-shirts and don't buy much in Argentina other than CDs and books. Electronics, I bring back from the US or Europe. Clothes, I generally buy in the US. You couldn't pay me to drive here. All of these things cost quite a bit here and would increase your costs significantly.

I'm curious to hear what other expat residents think.

[QUOTE=Schmoj]I think you could live comfortably on 2k, like a king on 3k. Lodging will be the biggest part of your budget. I rent a "tourist" apartment. It's furnished and includes all utilities, but is still way overpriced. Renting a "normal" apartment, while cheaper, generally requires a two year lease and your first born as a deposit.

The biggest increase in prices I have seen is eating in restaurants in Palermo. I spent 63 pesos for lunch, which not so long ago was closer to 50.

I should add, I wear jeans and t-shirts and don't buy much in Argentina other than CDs and books. Electronics, I bring back from the US or Europe. Clothes, I generally buy in the US. You couldn't pay me to drive here. All of these things cost quite a bit here and would increase your costs significantly.

I'm curious to hear what other expat residents think.[/QUOTE]I bought a house here a while back so rent isn't an issue. I do run a car and that is about a grand a year not including depreciation. Utilities are so cheap it is laughable. Figure about U$140 a month, max, including basic cable and internet. Cost of food is like asking how long is the piece of string. If you eat out for breakfast, lunch and dinner figure on 160 - 200 pesos a day. (U$50) I cook mostly because that's my thing and although the food here is good, it does get boring and is pretty plain. You would be hard-pressed to spend more than U$100 on food a week if you cooked a bit and ate out a bit.

Booze is cheap enough except if you drink out at Blacks etc. I am not on a budget and I live and work here as if I was home. It really is still very cheap whereas 3 years back they almost paid you to live here. My guess is I spend U$600 - 700 a month to live, the variable being how often you eat out.

Argento

Argentina Top Carry-Trade Currency.

[url]http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-04/peso-becoming-top-carry-trade-currency-as-exports-soar-argentina-credit.html[/url]

Poverty on the streets but no real problem with the clubs.

Looks like CFK is moving more to the left, to appease the unions for the election.

It will probably harm foreign direct investment. I don't understand why someone would move large amounts of money into a country where the rules keep changing. There is no way to plan.

[url]http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-08/argentine-profit-sharing-law-threatens-jobs-as-investment-lags-chile-peru.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Tessan; 413850]Looks like CFK is moving more to the left, to appease the unions for the election.

It will probably harm foreign direct investment. I don't understand why someone would move large amounts of money into a country where the rules keep changing. There is no way to plan.

[url]http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-08/argentine-profit-sharing-law-threatens-jobs-as-investment-lags-chile-peru.html[/url][/QUOTE]This is old news. They've been talking this bill up for two months or more. Politics as usual. The bill likely has very little chance, but if it is voted down by the opposition, CFK can blame them for not helping out the working poor. Election year political manuevering.