American Politics during the Obama Presidency

[QUOTE=Toymann;419081]Guese you have been asleep at the switch dude! We can't even buy toilets in the US that work properly since the tree hugger types like you regulated all other types of toilets out of existence during the clinton years. Got to flush the ones in my house at least twice to get the job done! LOL! Democrats LOVE regulations on small business. It's regulations on home mortgages that they dislike as it stands in the way of the poor little guys getting to own a house they can't afford. Suggest YOU pay attention to history dude! The facts of the matter are totally NOT on your side. Better to let liberal sleeping dogs lie. Happy Mongering All. Toymann[/QUOTE]Try buying a lightbulb.

I am really looking forward to January 2013 when we can finally rid ourselves of the miserable failure impersonating the US President. Unfortunately, the three best candidates aren't in the race: Marco Rubio, Chris Christie and Paul Ryan (in that order) but a pet rock would be better than Obama.

Does anyone believe that this guy's speech on Thursday brings with it any chance of improving things? The best that can come out of it is that Obama will outline the path to failure. Whatever he suggests, run the other way. Please, no more ideas from this administration.

[QUOTE=Doppelganger; 419082]You got to just love this one.

Gibson (the folks who make some of the greatest guitars) have been raided twice by the DOJ, once in 2009 and again this year. No, not for working illegal's but because they are importing wood from India for finger boards on the guitar necks and American workers are doing the work. DOJ has raided them twice because they suspect Gibson is violating – now get this – an INDIAN LAW prohibiting wood products not finished by INDIAN WORKERS from export. Gibson is not accused of violation of any US statute but suspected of a possible violation of a law enacted in India. Now the US Government is worried about enforcing the laws of foreign countries and denying work to American workers! Gibson is not taking this lying down and is raising hell about it.[/QUOTE]That's nothing. How about three individuals sentenced to eight years in USA prison for importing lobsters in plastic packaging, contrary to a Honduran law: [url]http://www.overcriminalized.com/CaseStudy/McNab-Imprison-by-Foreign-Laws.aspx[/url]

The enviro-idiots are out of control. The USA is severely f__ed up.

[QUOTE=Stan Da Man;419085]Does anyone believe that this guy's speech on Thursday brings with it any chance of improving things? The best that can come out of it is that Obama will outline the path to failure. Whatever he suggests, run the other way. Please, no more ideas from this administration.[/QUOTE]The speech on Thursday will outline Obama's plan to spend more money to "create jobs", legislation which he knows from inception will not make it through Congress because of the additional deficit spending it would entail, but nevertheless accomplishing his goal of setting him up to campaign that the Republicans prevented him from creating jobs by "blocking" his plan.

Thanks,

Jackson

All you guys seem to do is ***** and moan, but consistently fail to explain how Obama is hampering your own businesses.

Awhile back there was a credible argument on the 1099 Form requirement, but that has since been repealed. Obama also ensured there would not be another debt ceiling squabble until 2013, which every business owner should be thankful for.

The central right wing talking points are that taxes and regulation are the problem. That's hard to see from the record profits that big businesses are enjoying. What about small business? According to the article below, these talking points are largely bs for small businesses as well. Yet again, the right wing proves they have little to offer except hot air and empty rhetoric.

Regulations, taxes aren't killing small business, owners say.
[url]http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/09/01/122865/regulations-taxes-arent-killing.html[/url]

[QUOTE]McClatchy reached out to owners of small businesses, many of them mom-and-pop operations, to find out whether they indeed were being choked by regulation, whether uncertainty over taxes affected their hiring plans and whether the health care overhaul was helping or hurting their business.

Their response was surprising.

None of the business owners complained about regulation in their particular industries, and most seemed to welcome it. Some pointed to the lack of regulation in mortgage lending as a principal cause of the financial crisis that brought about the Great Recession of 2007-09 and its grim aftermath.[/QUOTE][QUOTE]The answer from Rick Douglas — the owner of Minit Maids, a cleaning service with 17 employees in Charlotte, N. C. — was more blunt.

"I think the rich have to be taxed, sorry," Douglas said. He added that he isn't facing a sea of new regulations but that he does struggle with an old issue, workers' compensation claims.

Douglas told The Charlotte Observer that he's hired more workers this year, citing pent-up demand from customers.[/QUOTE][QUOTE]Then there's Rip Daniels. He owns four businesses in Gulfport, Miss. : real estate ventures, a radio station and a boutique hotel / bistro. He said his problem wasn't regulation.

"Absolutely, positively not. What is choking my business is insurance. What's choking all business is insurance. You cannot go into business, any business — small business or large business — unless you can afford insurance," he told Biloxi's Sun Herald.[/QUOTE][QUOTE]Lynn Swager, a co-owner of Brass on Ivory in Edgewater, Md, sells, rents and repairs musical instruments. She faces a completely different sort of challenge.

"The thing that chokes us, believe or not, is the Internet. There are so many things that are accessible on the Internet that they can purchase for less than I can purchase from my distributor," Swager told McClatchy."Everybody thinks the Internet is this great thing that is happening to the world, but it is really, I think, killing a lot of small business. People that we talk to that are no longer in business say the same thing exactly."[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Esten; 419095]All you guys seem to do is * and moan, but consistently fail to explain how Obama is hampering your own businesses.

[url]http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/09/01/122865/regulations-taxes-arent-killing.html[/url][/QUOTE]You've got a point. In part because of the recession and now a Republican House of Representatives, he hasn't implemented much so far. It's items on the horizon so far that are of most concern. Higher health care costs and higher taxes in 2013, potential rolling blackouts in certain areas in 2014, and crises that will arise at some point because of the debts government is incurring, for example. The only effect on my business has been the debasement of the currency, and Bernanke & Co. are as much to blame as the Administration. Previous Congresses and the Bush Administration played a part in that too. I know certain industries and companies have been hit hard though -- anyone who's providing oil services in the Gulf of Mexico for example.

[QUOTE=Doppelganger; 419082]You got to just love this one.

Gibson (the folks who make some of the greatest guitars) have been raided twice by the DOJ, once in 2009 and again this year. No, not for working illegal's but because they are importing wood from India for finger boards on the guitar necks and American workers are doing the work. DOJ has raided them twice because they suspect Gibson is violating – now get this – an INDIAN LAW prohibiting wood products not finished by INDIAN WORKERS from export. Gibson is not accused of violation of any US statute but suspected of a possible violation of a law enacted in India. Now the US Government is worried about enforcing the laws of foreign countries and denying work to American workers! Gibson is not taking this lying down and is raising hell about it.[/QUOTE]The people at DOJ told Henry (CEO of Gibson) that is he just outsourced the jobs to Madagascar (the first raid was re: Madagascan Ebony) there would be no problem. Scary still, the Indian Govt has never uttered a complaint about Gibson's practices.

Now that is "Hope and Change" we can believe in! Misuse the DOJ to throw a bone to your enviromental-extremist supporters, American workers be damned!

Four more year! Four more years! (what do you expect? When you're in the gulag, four years seems like a couple of months).

[QUOTE=Stan Da Man;419085]Does anyone believe that this guy's speech on Thursday brings with it any chance of improving things?[/quote]I do. It will reaffirm his complete ineptitude an will serve to convince even more of his supporters to become former supporters. About the only supporters he will have left will be black voters (70% approval ratings amongst black voters) because they feel that abandoning BHO is abandoning their race. However, even they will discover how bad BHO is for black Americans (27% unemployment).

[quote=]The best that can come out of it is that Obama will outline the path to failure. Whatever he suggests, run the other way. Please, no more ideas from this administration.[/QUOTE]Agreed. This is a lame duck presidency (you heard it here first). Anything that helps to restrict his power to do more damage to America between now and when he is voted out of office, is a good thing.

[QUOTE=Jackson; 419091]The speech on Thursday will outline Obama's plan to spend more money to "create jobs", legislation which he knows from inception will not make it through Congress because of the additional deficit spending it would entail, but nevertheless accomplishing his goal of setting him up to campaign that the Republicans prevented him from creating jobs by "blocking" his plan.

Thanks,

Jackson[/QUOTE]Absolutely. He is going to say "I propose we give a trillion dollars evenly divided amongst those of you who vote for me a year from November. If you don't get it, it is because those GOP bastards in the House wouldn't let me give it to you. So vote BHO 2012."

[QUOTE=Esten;419095]All you guys seem to do is ***** and moan, but consistently fail to explain how Obama is hampering your own businesses.[/quote]BHO has destroyed my business by completely and unequivocally ending virtually all private, venture (I. E. Not established and cash-flowing) investment and has killed the entrepreneur class in America (the only people who can put the millions he has put in the unemployment line back to work). Worse yet, his perpetual printing of money and quantitative easing has provided free money to large institutional investors who now have no reason for seeking any investments other than getting free money from the govt (something I pointed out almost two years ago).

[quote=]Awhile back there was a credible argument on the 1099 Form requirement, but that has since been repealed.[/quote]If they put hurricane proof deck chairs on the Titanic, would that have changed the outcome?

[quote=]Obama also ensured there would not be another debt ceiling squabble until 2013, which every business owner should be thankful for.[/quote]You obviously are not and never will be a business owner. He put it off until 2013 so as to avoid having to face the enormity of the debt he has racked up in 3 short years, during the campaign. The 'debt deal' that you trumpet guarantees that our nation will amass another $7T in debt over the next 7-10 years. Wow, as a business owner, that makes me feel a squiggly inside.

[quote=]The central right wing talking points are that taxes and regulation are the problem. That's hard to see from the record profits that big businesses are enjoying.[/quote]You mean amidst BHO's jobless-recovery? Jobless because new regulation prohibits hiring. Double dip because all of the profits thus far have been from doing more with less (people). Considering that 70% of the US economy is dependent upon consumer spending and so many would-be consumers are out of work, we're double dipping. If you exclude the phony govt spending numbers, we never emerged from the recession.

[quote=]What about small business? According to the article below, these talking points are largely bs for small businesses as well. Yet again, the right wing proves they have little to offer except hot air and empty rhetoric.[/quote]Post all the drivel you want. If things were good for small business, we'd be rocking and rolling at 3%+ annual GDP growth and real unemployment would be coming down, not going up. Just wait for the spike in divorces, once BHO is out of office and people can afford lawyers.

I like to be civil but it is difficult when dealing with the brazen and dangerous stupidity that you display. Lives are being destroyed every day of this economic calamity and you keep chirping that all is well cause Gini or Houdini says so. You are both an idiot and a useful idiot.

Ignorance is a choice and for you, a life style.

Jackson, can you hard code a script that requires you to make two posts about chicas before you can post in this fucktarded pissing into the wind contest?

[QUOTE=Gato Hunter;419106]Jackson, can you hard code a script that requires you to make two posts about chicas before you can post in this fucktarded pissing into the wind contest?[/QUOTE]Chew on this dude!

When Obomanation first became president he put this small business f-you in place 3 months retroactive. These are facts NOT fiction. Historically employees that lost their job that included healthcare were eligable for COLBRA benefits. These extended healthcare benefits were managed through the previous employer BUT paid by the ex-employee. To make a long story short, Obomanation changed the guidelines retroactively to three months before he took offfice that the EMPLOYER was now responsible to pay 65% of the ex-employees COLBRA for 15 months after the employee was let go. More over! He defined termanation as "voluntary termination" that was unclear as to fiired for cause or laid off. Thus, in almost all cases, even if the employee was incompetant and deserved to be fired THEY GOT THE BENEFIT! Luckily, he was unable to put this into law as he lost the house. That said, employers caught in this behind the scenes, presidential fucking of small business, before it ran out of steam HAD TO PAY THIS EXTENDED POST EMPLOYMENT BENEFIT. My company had to pay north of $7000 for an incompetant employee that we let go (she went the whole 15 months at 650 per month to the company, she paid 350, employee plus child benefit). So Esten, and others, what do you think of these apples. And ya all wonder why small business was shell shocked during the first 2+ plus years of Obamanations rule. Tick. Tick. Tick. We in small business are waiting for the madness to end!

Happy Mongering All. Toymann

I have posted a chica post or two and will continue to do, as soon as I get my ass back to Bs As (next 60 days if all goes well).

Debating the fact that roughly 10% (it's really higher but I won't split hairs) of Americans, who want to work, have not been able to find work for more than two years (imagine running your family finances for two years without bringing more than a few hundred bucks a month) is pissing in the wind to some and a matter of great import to others.

Monger on!

[QUOTE=Esten; 419095]All you guys seem to do is * and moan, but consistently fail to explain how Obama is hampering your own businesses.

The central right wing talking points are that taxes and regulation are the problem. That's hard to see from the record profits that big businesses are enjoying. What about small business? According to the article below, these talking points are largely bs for small businesses as well. Yet again, the right wing proves they have little to offer except hot air and empty rhetoric.[/quote]My reply to Esten who has probably never operated even a limonade stand is:

Private businesses would be more than happy to invest their profits in hiring new employees.

But why should they? The cost of new employees, gracias a Obama, could destroy their businesses. Unlike Obama, private business have to account for every penny they spend. The private sector does not have the same printing press that Obama has to cover its debts with phoney baloney money. When the private sector makes mistakes they pay for it - they go out of business. When Obama, who I am beginning to think is a retard, makes mistakes, he cranks up his printing press.

At the end of the day, remember, every f===== job in in United states is dependent on the private sector. The government pays its bills and its employees with the money it taxes / extorts from the private sector.

If the private sector is hesitant to hire new employees under the draconian regulations instituted by Obama, it only goes to show that at least the private sector is following fiscally sound policies.

The chances of Obama addressing our unemployment crisis is about the same as Castro / Cuba addressing their economic woes.

Until Obama realizes that that the government is not the answer to our problems and wakes up to the fact that government is the problem, we are doomed.

[QUOTE=Gato Hunter;419106]Jackson, can you hard code a script that requires you to make two posts about chicas before you can post in this fucktarded pissing into the wind contest?[/QUOTE]Now wouldn't it be a kick in the ass if Jackson did as you ask, considering he post in this thread but seldom post chica reviews.

Hey Jax how about giving us a couple of reviews on some of your private stock before you post in this thread again? LOL.

Isn't it a wonderment how all the leftwing-nuts want to shut this thread down just because we don't kowtow to their Messiah. Where the hell were these babbling kvetches when Bush was in office and being slammed on a nonstop basis?

I say tough shit to the bellyachers, if you can't take the heat don't read the thread.

Didn't we go over all this before a few times?

Thought I would pass this little tidbit along. It goes a long way in explaining Obama's utter failure to understand business.

The percentage of each past president's cabinet who had worked in the private business sector prior to their appointment to the cabinet.

T. Roosevelt: 38%

Taft: 40%

Wilson: 52%

Harding: 49%

Coolidge: 48%

Hoover: 42%

F. Roosevelt: 50%

Truman: 50%

Johnson: 47%

Nixon: 53%

Ford: 42%

Carter: 32%

Reagan: 86%

GH Bush: 51%

Clinton: 39%

GW Bush: 55%

And the winner is:

Obama: 08%

This helps to explain the incompetence of this administration: only 8% of them have ever worked in a job not supported by tax money and that includes Obama!

[QUOTE=Doppelganger; 419142]Thought I would pass this little tidbit along. It goes a long way in explaining Obama's utter failure to understand business.

The percentage of each past president's cabinet who had worked in the private business sector prior to their appointment to the cabinet.[/QUOTE]But, remember, business experience is unnecessary because Obama is the smartest President we've ever had. Why rely on experience from the outside when you're brilliant? At least the media and the Nobel committee keep telling us that.

I'm still waiting for the proof, or at least transcripts that provide some evidence of this. You would think that the media could find those transcripts. After all, they managed to dig up Perry's old transcripts in a couple of weeks, yet haven't been able to muster any on O for the past four years. But it's different for the media when it's a Republican.

You also have to love O's non-response to Jimmy Hoffa's comments about "taking out the sons of be*tches" and going to war with the Tea Party. Where's the civility, Barack? He pretended Biden was misquoted when he called the Tea Party "terrorists." But, it's pretty hard to do that with Trumka, when he gave the introduction this weekend. He's the "See No Evil; Hear No Evil; Speak No Evil" President, at least when the comments are made by your union buddy who controls the millions you need to have any prayer at re-election.

[QUOTE=Wild Walleye;419100]BHO has destroyed my business by completely and unequivocally ending virtually all private, venture (I. E. Not established and cash-flowing) investment[/QUOTE]Destroyed? Please explain.

Completely and unequivocally? Once again you demonstrate that nothing you say can be believed.

Here are 121 Venture Capital deals in the past 30 days. And a report showing Q2 2011 registered $7.6B of venture capital funding invested in 768 deals representing a nine-quarter high on both dimensions.
[url]http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/08/29/venture-capital-deals-15/[/url]
[url]http://www.cbinsights.com/blog/venture-capital/venture-capital-report-quarterly-q2-2011[/url]

It would appear deals slowed in 3Q, you can thank the Tea Party debt ceiling debacle for that. Obama did you a favor by ensuring the country won't have to go through that type of uncertainty again in another 6 months.

You're going to have to come up with a different explanation for your business failure, instead of blaming it on Obama killing private investment. PPACA, or the prospect of higher Clinton-era taxes, aren't going to significantly deter investment themselves. Maybe your business just isn't that attractive an investment. Or maybe after meeting you the VC's had second thoughts about doing business with a nutjob.

Esten, why would WW wish to detail the specifics of his company to you just to be ridiculed for being either too dumb to run the company correctly, you already inferred this in your response, or having a company of little value therefore not attracting investment which you clearly accused him of?

As I recall when I detailed my response to ObamaCare and its potential affect on my decision to either continue healthcare benefits for my employees or discontinue them and pay the fine, your response was I was a hard hearted, money grubbing, employer who cared little for his employees.

So again I can see no point in attempting to detail company specifics to someone out of touch with the operational realities of business.

[QUOTE=Esten;419161]Obama did you a favor by ensuring the country won't have to go through that type of uncertainty again in another 6 months.[/QUOTE]Esten, Obama did [U]himself[/U] and his reelection efforts a favor by "[i]by ensuring the country won't have to go through that type of uncertainty again in another 6 months[/i]".

Now I know that Esten is not only "[i]out of touch with the operational realities of business.[/i]", but he's also "[i]out of touch with the operational realities of politics[/i]".

Thanks,

Jackson

[QUOTE=Doppelganger;419173]Esten, why would WW wish to detail the specifics of his company to you just to be ridiculed for being either too dumb to run the company correctly, you already inferred this in your response, or having a company of little value therefore not attracting investment which you clearly accused him of?[/QUOTE]He just went down in flames with his lie that Obama has killed virtually all private investment. If he cares to try to redeem himself with a better argument, I'm happy to listen.

I can understand his reluctance to get into details though, and your attempt to defend him not doing so. Getting into the details might reveal that his business failure in fact had nothing to do with Obama.

To set the record straight. I don't think the economy is great, or that Obama is without fault. However I don't think the economy is terrible either, or that the causes of unemployment are entirely or even mostly because of Obama. Conservatives would have us believe otherwise. I like to call out the bs, though it is often boring and easier than swatting at dead flies.

[QUOTE]As I recall when I detailed my response to ObamaCare and its potential affect on my decision to either continue healthcare benefits for my employees or discontinue them and pay the fine, your response was I was a hard hearted, money grubbing, employer who cared little for his employees.[/QUOTE]Hmmm. I don't recall that and if you can re-post or link it here please do. I'm quite sure I never used those words, and in fact on 4-20-11 I told you "Your hard work and success and concern for your employees is to be commended.".

What I DO recall, is calling you out on not wanting to be part of any "shared sacrifice" to address our deficits. If faced with a tax increase, you said you would pass that burden entirely on to others.

[QUOTE]So again I can see no point in attempting to detail company specifics to someone out of touch with the operational realities of business.[/QUOTE]Sounds like another cop-out from making a credible argument on how Obama is hurting your business. I'm still waiting for one, waiting and waiting and waiting....

You already know where the post is, you quoted from it. I love your 'shared sacrifice' language. How about we 'share the sacrifice' with the nearly 50% of the population who do not pay any income taxes as well as the wealthy! Isn't that the 'shared' in sacrifice?

Esten, are we on the same planet? You like to tout a few investments of venture capital but you are apparently blind to the fact the economy is not growing, unemployment is creeping up even with Obama's cooked numbers, the dollar remains weak, and your boy Obama can do nothing but make speeches full of sound and fury but signifying nothing. Like the CBO said earlier – they don't score speeches! So where is all this growth the guys are generating in the economy? Sure a few venture capitalists are cherry picking while the market is down, but it is small business that does the heavy lifting on jobs and I don't see any of that happening.

I wonder how Buffett is feeling now about his investment in Bank of America. Maybe he will now take it over and make it part of his personal fiefdom. By the way Warren Buffett does not pay employment taxes like the rest of us.

To set the record straight. I don't think the economy is great, or that Obama is without fault. However I don't think the economy is terrible either, or that the causes of unemployment are entirely or even mostly because of Obama. Conservatives would have us believe otherwise. I like to call out the bs, though it is often boring and easier than swatting at dead flies.

Esten's thoughts above.

The issue is not that the economy is in the tank and unemploymernt and underemployment is causing misery for 25% of the population.

We have had similar unemployemnt and underemployment before.

The issue is that before we always had someone in the White House who understood that only the private sector can remedy unemployment and underemployment. Obama is clueless. Take away his telepromptor and I doubt Obama can speak in complete sentences. Whether Obama should be classified as imbecile/moron or idiot is a moot point. Obama, when it comes to understanding the economy, is definitely somewhere in that range.

However, to give Obama credit, Obama can pick basketball and football winners. I was impressed that he picked Connecticut in last years NCAA basketball tourniment. Unfortunately, that skill is not going to translate into lowering unemployment and underemployment.

Also impressive is how many vacations Obama and his family can pack into a 52 week year.

I think I large reason we have under employment, or unemployment is that most are not educated enough, or have worthless degrees. Like English, Art, History, and yes MBA's. I hire people for a very highly skilled company and let me tell you there are many morons out there. The world in general is kicking the US's asses in the area of math, science and engineering. These are the skills that create, innovate and have trickle down jobs like secretary's, and box kickers. Something the US has forgot about.

Plowing more money into education will not help in the short term though, nor will funding worthless degrees.

I have to agree that hard degrees where you can create something is what we as a nation need to focus on. But I have to disagree regarding MBAs and MSAs, you still have to have someone with management skills to make the pieces fit together and accountants to measure what is and is not profitable. No going concern of any size can run for long without managment and accounting information systems. I have to admit MBA's are not what they were in the past, with every university in the country handing them out like they were free candy. While I know many engineers and other hard science types the one's who can manage are a very small minority.

Go to a job fair in the US and throw a nickel over your shoulder and you will hit an MBA looking for a job.

Can not argue with that. But I would not be tossing change around at a job fair, you could start a riot!

This guy clearly does not get it. He really is stupid.

So, his three big proposals in his jobs speech were:

1. [b]Extend the payroll tax holiday for certain workers, but go from a reduction to 4. 2% to a reduction of 3. 1%:[/b] How exactly will that create jobs? It won't. Employers have no incentive to create jobs from this. The benefit goes to employees. It doesn't reduce employer costs one whit, or make hiring any more attractive. That's $175 billion of his "jobs" program. A strategy that already has been tried and failed.

2. [b]Extend unemployment benefits for an additional year:[/b] How exactly will that create jobs? It won't. He's just given the unemployed another year's worth of incentives to not look for work. If you think it's tough to find a job right now, what do you think will make you look a little harder? Getting more free money or cutting that off and making the job search absolutely imperative. This guy's a true idiot. His best argument, as articulated by his Town Fool Jay Carney, is that this is "stimulative" because the unemployed will spend the money. What a crock of sh*t. Why not just pay everyone not to work? He thinks that everyone else puts their cash in mattresses, rather than investing it and spending it.

The foregoing two proposals stem from the Keynesian, gravity-defying "trickle up" theory of economics. Defying gravity doesn't work, and neither will these policies. They don't create jobs. And they're not stimulative because they have no multiplier effect whatsoever.

3. [b]His third proposal is to give some employers a tax credit for hiring someone who has been unemployed for six months or more:[/b] That won't create jobs, either. The last time he tried this, all employers responded the same way. You don't create any more jobs. You just come up with a form in your recruiting package to ferret out who has been unemployed longest such that you will qualify for a tax credit if you happen to hire that person. Then, you still don't necessarily hire that person. They get the job only if two or more applicants are "tied." It's not worth $4, 000 to hire a crappy employee. This, again, does nothing to create jobs. Like Cash for Clunkers, it shifts the jobs around a bit, but it creates no additional economic activity.

He had a month to think about it and spent a bunch of time at Martha's Vineyard, and this is the best he could come up? Really? Anyone who continues to assert that this guy is smart is just waving the partisan flag.

Finally, Town Dunce Jay Carney told us earlier in the week that Obama's plan would all be "paid for" without additional spending. When pressed, he refused to give details. Now we know why. How is it paid for? Because O said he would punt that math to the Deficit Reduction Committee. Instead of asking the Committee to find $1. 5 trillion in cuts, he'll just ask them to find $2 trillion. Voila! Paid for! Except for one thing. As everyone knows, they won't even be able to come up with the $1. 5 trillion. Adding another half trillion to their task won't change a thing. Nor will it make Obama's plan "paid for." He's just looking for someone to share the blame since he's unwilling to do the dirty work himself.

One year until we get rid of this idiot and get a real president.

[QUOTE=Jackson;419175]Esten, Obama did [U]himself[/U] and his reelection efforts a favor by "[i]by ensuring the country won't have to go through that type of uncertainty again in another 6 months[/i]".[/QUOTE]Jackson, of course in many things politicians do, there is an element of political positioning. And always, what's good for the economy is good for the President.

The real litmus test is this: Is it good for the economy, for the country, for Americans?

The overwhelming consensus has been that the debt ceiling debacle was BAD all around for business certainty and the economy. Why would businesses want to repeat that again in 6 months? They don't.

It would be nice to see you post and say "Obama did the right thing here for business and the economy." I suspect you just can't bring yourself to say it, but I would be impressed if you did.

[QUOTE=Doppelganger;419196]You already know where the post is, you quoted from it.[/QUOTE]Doubling down, are we? I did take the time to go back and review that discussion. And nowhere did I see you discussing PPACA and me calling you a "hard hearted, money grubbing, employer who cared little for his employees.". It was a tax discussion and I said you were self-interested for wanting to pass on a tax increase without bearing any of it yourself. So please post / link your alleged statement. If it doesn't exist admit you were wrong.

[QUOTE]I love your 'shared sacrifice' language. How about we 'share the sacrifice' with the nearly 50% of the population who do not pay any income taxes as well as the wealthy! Isn't that the 'shared' in sacrifice? [/QUOTE]

Here we have Doppel, an individual with one of the highest incomes in the country (in the top 2%), who doesn't want to pay any more tax but proposes people living in poverty pay more tax.

That isn't just sad, it's [i][b]pathetic[/b][/i].

No Doppel, the shared sacrifice is on both the taxation and spending sides. When government spending is cut (be it govt jobs, SS, Medicare, food stamps, infrastructure, unemployment benefits, etc) , it's the poor and middle class who take almost all the hit. Sure, cuts in some of these areas might affect the wealthy as well, but the effect on their wealth and lifestyle is insignificant. The wealthy sacrifice little when government spending is cut.

[QUOTE]Esten, are we on the same planet? You like to tout a few investments of venture capital but you are apparently blind to the fact the economy is not growing, unemployment is creeping up even with Obama's cooked numbers, the dollar remains weak, and your boy Obama can do nothing but make speeches full of sound and fury but signifying nothing. Like the CBO said earlier – they don't score speeches! So where is all this growth the guys are generating in the economy? Sure a few venture capitalists are cherry picking while the market is down, but it is small business that does the heavy lifting on jobs and I don't see any of that happening.[/QUOTE]I suggest you spend some time researching the underlying causes of the current economic situation, you will find many factors at work including several a direct result of free-market capitalism and conservative ideology. The creation and bursting of the housing / financial bubble, mass private sector layoffs, foreclosures and underwater mortgages, banks re-plenishing capital, governments laying off workers, and deep and continued (though unnecessary) cost-cutting by large corporations. It's not quite as simple as "It's Obama's fault".

There's plenty of focus on small business in the American Jobs Act. Obama deserves a lot of credit for what he's done recently to promote conditions for economic certainty and job creation. No doubt you'll be opposed to his efforts, but you'll be on the minority side of public opinion, a place where conservatives often find themselves.

[QUOTE=Gato Hunter;419200]I think I large reason we have under employment, or unemployment is that most are not educated enough, or have worthless degrees. Like English, Art, History, and yes MBA's. I hire people for a very highly skilled company and let me tell you there are many morons out there. The world in general is kicking the US's asses in the area of math, science and engineering. These are the skills that create, innovate and have trickle down jobs like secretary's, and box kickers. Something the US has forgot about.[/QUOTE]I agree. It's also revealing when you break down unemployment by educational degree, you see almost perfect inverse correlation.

Unemployment rate in 2010 (%)
1.9% Doctoral degree
2.4% Professional degree
4.0% Master's degree
5.4% Bachelor's degree
7.0% Associate degree
9.2% Some college, no degree
10.3% High school diploma
14.9% Less than a high school diploma

Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics, Current Population Survey
May 4, 2011
Data are 2010 annual averages for persons age 25 and over

Esten and his comrades discussing Obama and the economy, ' That's what I saw said the blind man, that's what I heard said the deaf one.

Esten, you make yourself look the fool with these defenses.

Quote Esten:
'It was a tax discussion and I said you were self-interested for wanting to pass on a tax increase without bearing any of it yourself. '


No Esten you did not use the exact words but though you attempt to use polite terms the intent and meaning are the same.

Quote Esten:
'Here we have Doppel, an individual with one of the highest incomes in the country (in the top 2%) , who doesn't want to pay any more tax but proposes people living in poverty pay more tax. '


Yea that's right buddy I'm right up there with Bill Gates, Warren Buffett et al raking in the dough. Better check your facts again, I'm in the top 6% not the top 2% but what is the difference between $200k per year and $2 million and up per year when we are talking politics with a flaming liberal socialist.

Esten are you now you are trying to tell us the nearly 50% of the nation that does not pay income tax are living at the poverty level? Right on Comrade!

Quote Esten:
'The overwhelming consensus has been that the debt ceiling debacle was BAD all around for business certainty and the economy. Why would businesses want to repeat that again in 6 months? They don't. '

No Esten, the reason the debt ceiling debacle was bad for the nation was because Congress and Obama could not agree to cut a minimum of $4 trillion from the budget. A figure the rating agencies put out there nearly two months before the 'debacle' began. The problem was businesses and the world fininancial markets wanted to see the federal budget reigned in and it did not happen.

The initial recession was not Obama's fault but the continuation of it, the steady erosion of the dollar's value and unemployment remaining above 9%, though Obama promised if the stimulus was passed it would not go over 8%, is a direct result of his failed policies.

It took Obama nearly three years to figure out we needed a jobs program? Why didn't he pass it in the first two years when he had bullet proof majorities in both houses? Now his 'new' program is more of the same failed policies.

You can argue till the cow's come home but the stagnant economy is Obama's mess and it will dethrone him in November 2012.

If you really want to know who is to blame for the economic mess we are in, it is us, the voters. The voters are the equivalent of a manager of a baseball team. We decide who plays first base, who bats cleanup, who pinch hits etc.

Unfortuneately, during the last election, when the bases were loaded and we were in the hole a couple of runs, we looked at the lineup and made a peculiar decision. We had Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe Dimaggio, 'Shoeless' Joe Jackson and Ted Williams available to pinch hit but we sent the scrawny ballboy, who wasn't sure what end of the bat to hold, up to the plate.

[QUOTE=Esten;419207]No Doppel, the shared sacrifice is on both the taxation and spending sides. When government spending is cut (be it govt jobs, SS, Medicare, food stamps, infrastructure, unemployment benefits, etc) , it's the poor and middle class who take almost all the hit. Sure, cuts in some of these areas might affect the wealthy as well, but the effect on their wealth and lifestyle is insignificant. The wealthy sacrifice little when government spending is cut.[/quote]Esten, the people who have their hard earned money taken from them by the government are the ones who are doing the sacrificing, not the people who might receive less of what to them is free money.

[QUOTE=Esten;419207]Obama deserves a lot of credit for what he's done recently to promote conditions for economic certainty and job creation.[/QUOTE][size=3]ROTFLMAO![/size]

Esten, can you actually say that with a straight face?

Anyway, you can preach that BS to the country's "nothinkums" because they're too stupid to know better, but it won't fly here.

Thanks,

Jackson

Esten is an enigma to me.

Sort of like an alchemist in the middle ages who spends his life trying to turn lead into gold.

It won't happen.

When we need to reward people for hard work, taking chances to better themselves, Esten sits on his ass and proclaims that hardworking people, taking chances to better themselves, should be punished and that the loafers of society are the real victims.

In reality the hardworking people as well as ther loafers are victims of Obama's braindead policies. Obama may be worse than Carter and probably is because at least Carter was recognized as an idiot while Obama and his supporters have not yet realized that Obama is an idiot.

I have had enough. I predict a landslide in the next election against the freeloaders of society, championed by that imbecile/moron/idiot Obama.

It is time we realized that the world economy is throwing us curve balls and we need to reward people who can handle curve balls and stop making excuses for people who can't handle curve balls.

Anyway, I don't know about the rest of you, but Estens nonsense is offensive to me.

i think esten should retire to his double wide, collect his food stamps and the remaining 10 days of his unemployment insurance and bid us a final farewell.

On the other hand, we could look at estens nonsense as comedy relief and the product of too many acid trips during his youth.

[QUOTE=Doppelganger;419210]No Esten you did not use the exact words but though you attempt to use polite terms the intent and meaning are the same.[/QUOTE]Good to see you admit at least part of your error. You are still wrong on the intent. My point is absolutely not about whether you are good to your employees or not, it seems you are. My point would be the same whether you passed a tax increase onto your employees or your customers. And the point is this: you object to doing anything more than you are doing now to help address our country's debt. You have plenty of ideas about how [i]others[/i] can help, but believe you are entitled to an exception. IMO that simply makes you self-interested, and no patriot.

[QUOTE]Yea that's right buddy I'm right up there with Bill Gates, Warren Buffett et al raking in the dough. Better check your facts again, I'm in the top 6% not the top 2% but what is the difference between $200k per year and $2 million and up per year when we are talking politics with a flaming liberal socialist.[/QUOTE]Check my facts OK....

[QUOTE=Doppelganger; 416733]I earn over $250K, own my own business, employ 22 accountants / CPAs / office staff, drive a 5 year old car and an 11 year old truck, live in a nice home but believe me I am damn sure not 'rich'. As one of those lunk head small business owners who would get caught in Obama's tax hike let me tell you what will happen.

I currently provide healthcare benefits for my employees, three weeks paid leave, paid continuing education allowance, and a 401 (k) which includes Safe Harbor contributions of 3% with an additional minimum of 3% and maximum of 9% in Profit Sharing depending on the profitability of the business year.

Well when Obama hits me with higher personal taxes here is what goes at a minimum: one week of paid leave, continuing education allowance and when ObamaCare kicks in probably healthcare as it appears to be cheaper to pay the fine than insure the employees but we still don't know for sure since HHS / IRS are still writing the rules.[/QUOTE]Hmmm. Before it was $250K+ (in the top 2%) , now its 200K. Not that I care much about your personal finances, but you're the one posting this (inconsistent) information. Check my facts? You put your foot in your mouth once again.

Perhaps you were bluffing before, so you could show us how harmful your tax increases would be to your business. At 200K, your taxes aren't going up and all that 'harm' is pure fantasy.

[QUOTE]Esten are you now you are trying to tell us the nearly 50% of the nation that does not pay income tax are living at the poverty level? Right on Comrade![/QUOTE]Nope. All of the people affected by your proposal are not living in poverty. But all people living in poverty (who have income) would be affected.

[QUOTE]No Esten, the reason the debt ceiling debacle was bad for the nation was because Congress and Obama could not agree to cut a minimum of $4 trillion from the budget. A figure the rating agencies put out there nearly two months before the 'debacle' began. The problem was businesses and the world fininancial markets wanted to see the federal budget reigned in and it did not happen.[/QUOTE]Keep fooling yourself, the amount of the debt agreement was secondary to the uncertainty over what might happen if the limit wasn't raised. It was all over the news, I guess you missed it. As far as the $4T, that's exactly what Obama was pushing for. Repubs refused because they made a pledge not to raise taxes, contrary to majority public opinion. Republicans pushed for a smaller deal than $4T with cuts alone. Shouldn't you blame them?

[QUOTE=El Alamo; 419216]I think esten should retire to his double wide, collect his food stamps and the remaining 10 days of his unemployment insurance and bid us a final farewell.

On the other hand, we could look at estens nonsense as comedy relief and the product of too many acid trips during his youth.[/QUOTE]Dude, I am still young and living the life!

When I wake up at 3pm, I head down to the beach with my surfboard to catch some waves and rays. Then I come back home and take a nap. When I wake up again I toss a few pop tarts in the toaster for dinner and turn on MSNBC to watch Hardball and my other favorite shows. In the evening I cook a splif, connect to AP and search for 'El Alamo'. You post so many variations of 'Obama can't fight his way out of a paper bag' it's hysterical! Once, I laughed so hard I shit my pants. Then I relax with some chocolate milk and watch my favorite videos of Obama on youtube before I go to bed.

Peace out....

Esten.

I am glad you are not taking my posts seriously. I am stuck in Key west for another week or so and have nothing better to do than post on this forum. When I return to Paraguay Obama, the national debt and the price of rice in China will be the farthest thing from my mind.

[QUOTE=Esten; 419217]Good to see you admit at least part of your error. You are still wrong on the intent. My point is absolutely not about whether you are good to your employees or not, it seems you are. My point would be the same whether you passed a tax increase onto your employees or your customers. And the point is this: you object to doing anything more than you are doing now to help address our country's debt. You have plenty of ideas about how [i]others[/i] Can help, but believe you are entitled to an exception. IMO that simply makes you self-interested, and no patriot.

Check my facts OK.

Hmmm. Before it was $250K+ (in the top 2%) , now its 200K. Not that I care much about your personal finances, but you're the one posting this (inconsistent) information. Check my facts? You put your foot in your mouth once again.

Perhaps you were bluffing before, so you could show us how harmful your tax increases would be to your business. At 200K, your taxes aren't going up and all that 'harm' is pure fantasy.[/QUOTE]

Esten, I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain tax code to you or what an LLC is since you don't seem to grasp the financial operations of a business beyond taxing it.


This year it appears my gross income will be down due to clients reducing their expenses and having given discounts to retain clients where necessary, something I doubt you understand. That notwithstanding, I don't know what graph you are looking at but neither $200K nor $250k is in the top 2% of income. I'm sure you can come up with something somewhere from a liberal site which will support your contention but neither it nor you are in touch with reality.


Esten permit me to provide you with an example of your rhetoric.

Obama and you are up an unsanitary tributary with no means of locomotion.

More succinctly the literal translation is:

Obama and you are up shit creek without a paddle.

I hope you get the point.

I have become weary of your and most liberal's attempt to shift your perceived guilt over conditions you perceive as unfair to those who are productive and readily accept responsibility of their actions and their lives. Using this as an excuse to plunder and pillage from the productive the fruits of their labors to ease your perceived guilt to feed the leaches on the body politic.

Esten, you seem so ready to criticize and pass judgment on others, what is your financial situation?

Esten, while you rail against conservatives and independents no one is stopping you from writing a check as big as you may wish to 'share the sacrifice'.

Go for it big guy. You can post a copy of it on the board so we the unwashed and unwilling can marvel at your largess

Should voters be blamed for the divided government today, Democratic president, or something else? Unclear to me.

[QUOTE=El Alamo; 419211]If you really want to know who is to blame for the economic mess we are in, it is us, the voters. The voters are the equivalent of a manager of a baseball team. We decide who plays first base, who bats cleanup, who pinch hits etc.

Unfortuneately, during the last election, when the bases were loaded and we were in the hole a couple of runs, we looked at the lineup and made a peculiar decision. We had Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe Dimaggio, 'Shoeless' Joe Jackson and Ted Williams available to pinch hit but we sent the scrawny ballboy, who wasn't sure what end of the bat to hold, up to the plate.[/QUOTE]