2012 Elections in the USA

[QUOTE=Member #2041;426678]In many cases, in places like Texas and Wyoming many folks live something like 100 miles from the nearest DMV. And of course, they don't drive, and don't own cars, which is why they lack ID in the first place.[/QUOTE]What total nonsense. At times like these I just am amazed how stupid wild-ass liberals like you can be! How do you think these people get there groceries? They drive into town dumbo! Which has ID facilities available and they are FREE! Oh my! Stop talking about things you know nothing about city boy. It's obvious you are a urban cowboy at best. Your point is just goofy as hell. Hate to tell ya this, I live in wyoming and we have had voter ID forever. No one bitchs, how the hell can you survive in the US in 2012 without a valid ID? Oh, I forgot, if you are here illegally then maybe you don't have ID. LMAO. Monger On All. Toymann

[QUOTE=Toymann;426680]What total nonsense. At times like these I just am amazed how stupid wild-ass liberals like you can be! How do you think these people get there groceries? They drive into town dumbo! Which has ID facilities available and they are FREE! Oh my! Stop talking about things you know nothing about city boy. It's obvious you are a urban cowboy at best. Your point is just goofy as hell. Hate to tell ya this, I live in wyoming and we have had voter ID forever. No one bitchs, how the hell can you survive in the US in 2012 without a valid ID? Oh, I forgot, if you are here illegally then maybe you don't have I'd. LMAO. Monger On All. Toymann[/QUOTE]

What's nonsense about it? It's a simple fact that many folks in rural Texas and Wyoming live 100 or so miles from the nearest DMV. There sure as heck is NOT a DMV in every town with a grocery store. Many of them take a bus, or hitchhike into town to buy groceries. They sure don't drive if they don't own a car. Sorry to let the facts get in the way of your rant.

BTW, if you don't drive, and you don't have a bank account, you really don't need an ID to do much of anything else. But you still have the right to vote. And if you ARE registered to vote, shouldn't the state provide you with that ID at the moment you register? You can register by mail. The state should then send you your ID in the return mail.

Not much around.

[url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49152114[/url]

[QUOTE=Member #2041;426679]BTW, can you document those cases of Democratic (the word has an "ic" at the end of it, BTW) operatives who loaded up buses and took the same people to vote in multiple locations in national elections in the past few decades?[/QUOTE]I'm a libertarian. I come from a long line of Democrats. One of my relatives stuffed ballot boxes for a Democrat candidate. He probably didn't load up buses. He didn't explain to me exactly what he did. But from what I've read this U.S. senate election was won by the votes of dead people. Voter ID requirements and observers at polling stations would have prevented this.

Why do you maintain that race has anything to do with this issue, besides being a fallacious talking point to get out the vote?

Having lived in the actual places that you describe, I echo what Toymann says. The few voters that live in remote parts of Texas and Wyoming are overwhelmingly Republican so I don't know why you'd care. You may be correct that some sort of distribution of voter ID's by mail would work, but I'm not sure. You would have the problem of verifying that the person who's voting is the same person on the card. I could see crooked registrar's enabling the type of fraud I describe above if the voter claims he doesn't have a photo ID.

[QUOTE=Tiny12; 426683]I'm a libertarian. I come from a long line of Democrats. One of my relatives stuffed ballot boxes for a Democrat candidate. He probably didn't load up buses. He didn't explain to me exactly what he did. But from what I've read the election was won by the votes of dead people. Voter I'd requirements and observers at polling stations would have prevented this.

Why do you maintain that race has anything to do with this issue, besides being a fallacious talking point to get out the vote?

Having lived in the actual places that you describe, I echo what Toymann says. Voters in remote parts of Texas and Wyoming are overwhelmingly Republican so I don't know why you'd care. You may be correct that some sort of distribution of voter I'd's by mail would work, but I'm not sure. You would have the problem of verifying that the person who's voting is the same person on the card. I could see crooked registrar's enabling the type of fraud I describe above if there's no photo on the I'd.[/QUOTE]So in other words, we should disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of people because of your bullshit hearsay anecdote? Feel free to actually provide proof that it happened, rather than I heard it from a relative who was probably drunk when he was talking.

The fact is Texas is not nearly as overwhelmingly Republican as you think it is, and the same crap is also being pulled in Pennsylvania and Ohio and elsewhere. Frankly, I really DON'T care what happens in Wyoming, as it's already established itself as probably the stupidest state in the nation - having sent Dick Cheney to represent it in Congress, and fortunately, it has very few electoral votes. And it's true that race is less an issue than this being about disenfranchising poor people. So that makes it OK in your small mind?

BTW, we could certainly enable using fingerprints to ID voters, just like they do in poor Arab nations - the registration application could easily have a sticker put on it that takes a fingerprint - and this could be checked at the polls, or, more sensibly, afterwards if the vote was challenged, which would reduce the cost by factors of hundreds, or thousands even. It costs pennies to include a fingerprint sticker on the mail-in registration form, and can be done with little to no cost added for the impoverished voter - and not make them travel up to a hundred miles to the DMV. Oh, BTW, it's obviously too late to do this for THIS election, but this could certainly be implemented for future elections. But again, that thwarts the REAL intent of these voter-ID drives - which is to alter the result of THIS election specifically, by disenfranchising the poor.

[QUOTE=Member #2041;426684]Feel free to actually provide proof that it happened, rather than I heard it from a relative who was probably drunk when he was talking.[/QUOTE][url]Http://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/11/us/how-johnson-won-election-he-d-lost.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm[/url]

He was an alcoholic, although sober when he told the story.

"Hundreds of thousands of people disenfranchised" sounds to me more like "a lost opportunity to have hundreds of thousands votes cast, for people that never went to the polls."

[QUOTE=Tiny12; 426685][url]Http://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/11/us/how-johnson-won-election-he-d-lost.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm[/url]

He was an alcoholic, although sober when he told the story.

"Hundreds of thousands of people disenfranchised" sounds to me more like "a lost opportunity to have hundreds of thousands votes cast, for people that never went to the polls."[/QUOTE]Obviously, you missed it when I asked you to document any fraudulent election IN THE PAST FEW DECADES. Yes, there were a few that happened 50+ years ago, but that also bypasses THOUSANDS of elections where blacks were disenfranchised that have happened since then, in the 1950s and 1960s by bogus Voter ID schemes and other Jim Crow issues.

BTW, something like 98.7% of all American citizen adults have drivers licenses - even though only 87% of them actually drive. That leaves over 3 MILLION who don't have licenses, and this obviously skews heavily to the poor. Your desire would be disenfranchise some substantial percentage of 3 MILLION legitimate American citizens who legally have the right to vote, with the burden of traveling to a DMV, when they don't drive and are poor. Clearly, that's Hundreds of Thousands of legitimately legal voters.

[QUOTE=Tiny12; 426683]I'm a libertarian. I come from a long line of Democrats. One of my relatives stuffed ballot boxes for a Democrat candidate. He probably didn't load up buses. He didn't explain to me exactly what he did. But from what I've read this USA senate election was won by the votes of dead people. Voter I'd requirements and observers at polling stations would have prevented this.

Why do you maintain that race has anything to do with this issue, besides being a fallacious talking point to get out the vote?

Having lived in the actual places that you describe, I echo what Toymann says. The few voters that live in remote parts of Texas and Wyoming are overwhelmingly Republican so I don't know why you'd care. You may be correct that some sort of distribution of voter I'd's by mail would work, but I'm not sure. You would have the problem of verifying that the person who's voting is the same person on the card. I could see crooked registrar's enabling the type of fraud I describe above if the voter claims he doesn't have a photo I'd.[/QUOTE]The member, whatever his number is, is just the latest political shill on the board. Should have seen this coming when suddenly he was planning a trip to mendoza. Just some 16 year old blogger for MSNBC. Disregard all his arguemnts and don't engage. He will dissappear once we stop engaging. His comments about wyoming and voter registration just serve to disclose him as a shill. Funny how wyoming is one of the riches states in the US, with argueably the best social support net, but is now the stupidest state in the US. Your point about rural living is spot on. Nobody lives way out in the boonies without personal transportation. Dumshits comment about taking the bus is hillarious! IALOTFLMAO. Would love for him to show me the bus coverage in rural wyoming. Too funny. Monger On TinyDude. Hope to meet ya this Friday at Jackson's. Toymann

ps. I expect more of these shills to come out of the woodwork the closer the election gets.

[QUOTE=Toymann; 426688]The member, whatever his number is, is just the latest political shill on the board. Should have seen this coming when suddenly he was planning a trip to mendoza. Just some 16 year old blogger for MSNBC. Disregard all his arguemnts and don't engage. He will dissappear once we stop engaging. His comments about wyoming and voter registration just serve to disclose him as a shill. Funny how wyoming is one of the riches states in the US, with argueably the best social support net, but is now the stupidest state in the US. Your point about rural living is spot on. Nobody lives way out in the boonies without personal transportation. Dumshits comment about taking the bus is hillarious! IALOTFLMAO. Would love for him to show me the bus coverage in rural wyoming. Too funny. Monger On TinyDude. Hope to meet ya this Friday at Jackson's. Toymann.

Ps. I expect more of these shills to come out of the woodwork the closer the election gets.[/QUOTE]

You're really stupid if you believe that the reason I came here was to debate politics with the likes of you (and frankly, I have no doubt that you actually are this dumb). Jackson can verify that I am registered to stay in one of his Apartments during October 7-15. I'll be in Mendoza from Sept. 30 to Oct. 6.

Don't you think that if I was looking for a PRODUCTIVE political debate, I'd be engaging in one that involves mostly American citizens on a forum mostly read by American citizens. And I suppose my extensive dialog the other day about changing money, and would Xoom work best, was all done just to make my cover look better. You really need to loosen your tin foil hat and let the blood circulate better to your brain, such that it is.

[QUOTE=Member #2041;426690]You're really stupid if you believe that the reason I came here was to debate politics with the likes of you (and frankly, I have no doubt that you actually are this dumb). Jackson can verify that I am registered to stay in one of his Apartments during October 7-15. I'll be in Mendoza from Sept. 30 to Oct. 6.[/QUOTE]Thank God I will be fishing in corrienties during these dates and miss the opportunity to be enlightened by such a free thinker as yourself! You really need to be more selective about who you let stay at the clubhouse El Jeffe. Make sure he pays in advance. It wouldn't be the first time a wild-ass liberal slipped out without paying his bill. LMAO. Happy Mongering All. Toymann

ps. you're engaging a resident US citizen, who pays his share of taxes, and lives in that idiot state you referenced in your last goofy arguement supporting undocumented voters in the US. Even in the socialist country I grew up in they have required ID for as long as I can remember. LMAO

[QUOTE=Toymann;426691]Thank God I will be fishing in corrienties during these dates and miss the opportunity to be enlightened by such a free thinker as yourself! You really need to be more selective about who you let stay at the clubhouse El Jeffe. Make sure he pays in advance. It wouldn't be the first time a wild-ass liberal slipped out without paying his bill. LMAO. Happy Mongering All. Toymann[/QUOTE]I can assure you, I make no attempt to socialize with rednecks in any case, so there was little chance I'd be meeting you. And Jackson obviously has more sense than you. As he's already got my Credit Card on file.

[QUOTE=Member #2041;426681]What's nonsense about it? It's a simple fact that many folks in rural Texas and Wyoming live 100 or so miles from the nearest DMV. There sure as heck is NOT a DMV in every town with a grocery store. Many of them take a bus, or hitchhike into town to buy groceries. They sure don't drive if they don't own a car. Sorry to let the facts get in the way of your rant.[/quote]So let me see if I understand this: Some people are too poor / dumb / stupid to get themselves to a DMV to get an ID card, but they're not too poor / dumb / stupid to get themselves to a polling place?

It amuses me how liberals never see even the most obvious flaws in their own arguments. For them, it's all about emotion and never about logic.

[QUOTE=Member #2041;426681]BTW, if you don't drive, and you don't have a bank account, you really don't need an ID to do much of anything else.[/QUOTE]Au contraire! They need an ID to exercise their right to vote.

[QUOTE=Jackson; 426693]So let me see if I understand this: Some people are too poor / dumb / stupid to get themselves to a DMV to get an I'd card, but they're not too poor / dumb / stupid to get themselves to a polling place?

It amuses me how liberals never see even the most obvious flaws in their own arguments. For them, it's all about emotion and never about logic.

Au contraire! They need an I'd to exercise their right to vote.[/QUOTE]Well duh, if the polling place is 1 mile away, but the DMV is 100 miles away, yes, it stands to reason that the DMV would be MUCH harder for a non-driver to get to. It's really not that complex, actually.

And BTW, they might need an ID, but not a PHOTO ID. In any case, as I said, using fingerprints or any other mechanism that would allow doing it entirely by mail, would not be onerous at all, and I would have no issue with that system were it to be implemented. But of course, these ID schemes are SUPPOSED to be onerous to the folks that don't drive and don't have bank accounts.

BTW, if the Right wing position on this issue was about logic, rather than an attempt to disenfranchise the poor, how come they never seem to come up with a simple mechanism that would enable voter ID by mail, that doesn't impose a substantial burden on poor folks who don't drive? Talk about an obvious flaw in an argument - that right there is a pretty glaring one.

[QUOTE=Member #2041;426692]I can assure you, I make no attempt to socialize with rednecks in any case.[/QUOTE]I have been called many things over the years. Now I can add REDNECK to the list! IALOTFLMAO. Please disregard my previous suggestion that you crawl back under your rock. Keep the hits coming. By all means. I really pity the poor fellas that will be staying with you at the clubhouse in a few weeks. You just sound like such a fun time. LMAO. Happy Mongering All. REDNECK Toymann

[QUOTE=Toymann;426697]I have been called many things over the years. Now I can add REDNECK to the list! IALOTFLMAO. Please disregard my previous suggestion that you crawl back under your rock. Keep the hits coming. By all means. I really pity the poor fellas that will be staying with you at the clubhouse in a few weeks. You just sound like such a fun time. LMAO. Happy Mongering All. REDNECK Toymann[/QUOTE]Well, perhaps the more appropriate term would have been "imbecile" rather than red neck. In any case, you are certainly someone who was stupid and / or loony enough to concoct a conspiracy theory that I was simply a shill who registered for this forum 5 years ago just so that I could come here to argue politics with a bunch of ex-pats, rather than someone who was actually traveling to Argentina in the next couple of weeks. This in spite of the fact that my prior interaction with you involved the best ways to exchange currency when I was in Mendoza, and how I would be traveling to Mendoza from Santiago, Chile. I mean, given that prior dialog, it's hard to choose whether you are more loony, or stupid.

It may shock you, but I'm not all that liberal politically. I already made it clear that I would support REASONABLE voter ID laws that actually allowed doing it by mail, and would not burden poor folks who can't drive. And the only reason that I'll be voting for Obama is that Romney has abandoned all of the reasonable positions that he held while he was Governor of Massachussetts. Romney had kept to his previous views, I'd have thought he was a pretty decent candidate (and I am disappointed by Obama. He's no Bill Clinton). But of the two choices we have running now, I see one who is mediocre in Obama, and one who would be much worse in Romney, because he's deeply committed to the same policies that ran the USA into the ground during the Bush Administration.

And unlike you, I can respect someone who disagrees with me, as long as they don't prove they are unworthy of respect, as you did with that nonsensical conspiracy theory that I was some sort of shill who had no reason to be in a forum about Argentina. But from this point on, I'll accomodate your preference, and call you an imbecile rather than a redneck - although, to be sure, it's certainly possible to be both at once, and I suspect that to be the case here.