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Well, along the lines of the Amero, I thought I'd bring to light a controversy first brought to us in early 2007 by Thaddeus Mathews, who is a controversial radio talk show host on AM radio.
First, his blog entry on the first black man to be president in 1781, including many true American racist voices in comment:
[url]http://www.thaddeusmatthews.com/2007/01/first-president-of-united-states-was.html[/url]
And then a link to his blog by someone else, with some more comments (some racist and some more clear-headed):
[url]http://www.nowpublic.com/the_first_president_of_the_usa_was_a_black_man[/url]
I found it interesting that a (presumably black, but that is not confirmed) muslim had some of the best thoughts on debunking the obvious false claims (not that he was the only one) of Mr. Mathews and the other black people who are so desperate to think that it was possible to have a black president in 1781 to the point where they can't think rationally about the subject, or are literally so thought-challenged that they think this is reality.
One of the reasons I posted this was to point out something that scares me.
I don't think that Obama himself is a bad person, nor that he himself will necessarly make a bad president. I agree with what many have said time and again, that the office tends to moderate a person, and with advisers and other restraints that the constitution has in place, even if one does go somewhat overboard, the process tends to remove them and their party from office (right or wrong, Bush is a prime example of the perception of getting too far away from center and MAJORITY public opinion)
But the scary part is all the people that voted for Obama and WHY. I know there are many who voted for him to vote AGAINST the Republicans and the last 8 years. There are many who truly believe that Obama is the best thing for the country. But there are so many IGNORANT IDIOTS in the US who actually believe shit like Mathews published in his blog (both white and black) as well as other patently stupid things.
As well as a large part of the black vote being truly racial. Not even because they had voted Democrat all their lives and they would continue to do so, but specifically because he was black and nothing else.
"I'm voting for Obama because he's black. As a black man I think that's a more important reason than what he stands for. We need a shot of pride. Black boys need to know that if they do the right thing they too can become president. But what we don't need is a stretching of the truth or a twisting of facts."
This is the quote of Mikaeel Abdul-Malik, the one Muslim commenter in the blog that comments on the story, in the second link above. While I applauded his comments debunking Mathews' comments related to the first black president, he still gives, as far as I'm concerned, the worst example of why to vote for someone. It's a racist reason.
His comment is also very similar, in my opinion, to giving trophies to everyone whether they win or not, in order to boost self esteem.
It also takes something away from Obama, in my opinion, as the "best man" to run the country. It says that he was not the best man, but the "most proper" man.
BTW - I am very proud that I come from a country that is, with all of its past of racist issues and what still does exist of racist issues, that we were able to elect a black president. That is really, in my opinion, the best thing to come out of the vote yesterday.
Anyway, the other reason I posted this is because it is interesting to consider who was actually the first president of the United States. Personally I don't feel that Hanson was the first real US President for the reasons given by others that the actual US and the actual office of the President did not exist until Washington was voted in after the acceptance of the Constitution.
My father, who is a well-known (in his circles) genealogist, holds to the notion that Hanson and the others were indeed presidents of the US before Washington. We have arguments on this score from time to time.
Very well written, but for me the bottom line is, I am burning my passport and never going back.
[QUOTE=El Queso]
But the scary part is all the people that voted for Obama and WHY. I know there are many who voted for him to vote AGAINST the Republicans and the last 8 years. There are many who truly believe that Obama is the best thing for the country. But there are so many IGNORANT IDIOTS in the US who actually believe shit like Mathews published in his blog (both white and black) as well as other patently stupid things.[/QUOTE]While that is true you cannot limit that position to only those that voted for Obama because he is black. There were millions who voted AGAINST him simple BECAUSE he is black.
And ignorant idiots exists on BOTH sides-I give you skinheads as an example.
Even a forum member recently wrote that he would vote for a stupid Repub over an intelligent Dem. This indicates a willingness to 'dumb' down the country. Ignorance is all around us.
Suerte.
Stowe
Stowe, I completely agree with you. I didn't follow up my comments related to Obama specifically because McCain lost and Obama won by a very large margin due to some of what I pointed out.
The idea of voting for a dumb Republican over a smart Democrat (AND vice versa) is of course why people vote straight party tickets. In some ways, I can understand the thought behind that. But in this day and age, to believe that a choice between one of two parties is going to ALWAYS present close enough to the way one thinks about the world is also falling short of intelligence. Having two parties, to me, means that they change and expand to include marginal [at first] concepts because they have to in order to keep the vote. The parties are too broad to represent a clear majority of the feelings of the majority of people who are within them.
If someone told me "I always vote straight Republican [or Democrat] because I carefully study the candidates and I have never found a member of the other party to vote for" I would respect that, if it were true.
[QUOTE=Stowe]Even a forum member recently wrote that he would vote for a stupid Repub over an intelligent Dem. This indicates a willingness to 'dumb' down the country. Ignorance is all around us.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=El Queso]The idea of voting for a dumb Republican over a smart Democrat (AND vice versa) is of course why people vote straight party tickets.[/QUOTE]Okay, let's straighten this out.
No member of this forum ever posted any statement that "he would vote for a stupid Repub over an intelligent Dem".
A couple of days ago, Babboy, in making what I can only assume was a joke in poor taste, fabricated a [u]COUNTERFEIT[/u] quote from me that incorporated that statement.
I justifiably deleted this [u]COUNTERFEIT[/u] quote.
It's disappointing that some of you are apparently all to ready to believe that I would have made such a completely idiotic statement.
Thanks,
Jackson
Maybe a preemptive strike here, but let's get something else straight. Obama was most certainly not elected because so many black folks voted for him. He was elected because so many white folks voted for him. I also don't think that this election signals an end to racism in the USA. It would be great if that were so, but to believe it is naiive. Certainly a major step in the right direction. If not for eight years of Bush, Iraq and an imploding economy, I think Obama would likely have been thrashed by any respectable opponent the Republicans might have come up with. That's maybe a pretty cynical view, but I am a firm believer that despite Obama's nearly flawless campaign, he owes everything to George W. Bush.
What I meant in my post was not a joke.
Most repubs on this forum, with maybe a few exceptions, would have voted for Daffy Duck as long as he was on the repub ticket, and they would have defended their decision to the death.
Luckily, reason, pragmatism and practicality won out this time and they lost.
What's more, they were soundly thrashed by the electorate. The pendulum has swung in the Dems favor. Let's wait and see what they do with their new found mandate.
Regards,
BM.[QUOTE=Jackson]Okay, let's straighten this out.
No member of this forum ever posted any statement that "he would vote for a stupid Repub over an intelligent Dem".
A couple of days ago, Babboy, in making what I can only assume was a joke in poor taste, fabricated a [u]COUNTERFEIT[/u] quote from me that incorporated that statement.
I justifiably deleted this [u]COUNTERFEIT[/u] quote.
It's disappointing that some of you are apparently all to ready to believe that I would have made such a completely idiotic statement.
Thanks,
Jackson[/QUOTE]
Doggboy, my apologies. I went back and re-read what I wrote. I did not at all mean to say that the reason he was elected overall was because black people voted for him because he was black. I realize that my post certainly does have a tone along those lines, but that was not my intention.
I was referring directly to the comments that were made specifically to black people voting for Obama simply because he was black and not because he was the best candidate. I didn't really word things all that well. I didn't mean to confuse that with the all the other people that voted for him, but it sure did come out that way.
As I stated in another thread (to paraphrase) I don't think Obama is going to be a bad president, any worse than McCain would have been, and he certainly has a chance of handling things way better than Bush did.
Speaking of racism though, I don't believe it is nearly as bad in the States as many people seem to think it is. In fact, I used to live in the 5th Ward in Houston, some 25 years ago, which was a very raw part of town populated mostly by black people. I got along splendidly with everyone there.
I had a friend and workmate in the 90's who was black. He had started out in the mailroom, worked his way up to office manager, then managed to work his way into managing communications in the IT department, where I also worked.
At one point, we had cubicles sitting side by side. I was shocked to hear him always on the phone to friends, his girlfriends, etc, talking about how bad his boss was (who I thought was one of the best bosses I'd ever worked for) because our boss was always on his ass. He complained about how racist everyone at the company was.
The fact was, this guy spent so much time complaining about the boss, and also talking up what a good worker he was and all, that he hardly ever got anything done! His performance impacted me directly when I started traveling to install systems on our rigs and his communications stuff had holes and problems all over.
We used to talk about this a lot. It bothered me that he blamed racism and not himself.
Then one day he told me what the real deal was. The president of the company had made a racist remark during one Christmas party a couple of years before. My friend overheard it and made sure that the president of the company realized he had overheard. From that moment on, he said, he realized he didn't have to work or do anything real serious because he had it made. He talked up the racism all the time to make sure that if anything ever happened to him, the company would regret it and he'd be even better off.
In fact, when my boss got moved up to a Director position and I got moved up to a Manager position, we discussed this situation directly and he affirmed that the guy was still there because the company did not want to get sued for being racist.
The fact is, it was a real dumb thing the president of the company had said, but it did not reflect the overall attitude of the company. In fact, this guy had been in line to make it very nicely at the company. We had many black employees in the field, including a handful of black rig managers, one of whom was the best manager I'd ever met.
I agree completely that racism in the US still exists, but it has changed A LOT in the last few decades.
Jackson:
As to the quote about voting for the dumb Republican, I just remembered that someone had made it and didn't remember who or in what context.
However, that is exactly what voting a party ticket is. One who does such would prefer that a potentially inferior candidate from the "good" party be in power rather than a potentially better candidate in the "bad" party in order to ensure that the "good" party be strong enough to make a difference and do the things that the person voting wants done. That reasoning is for the thinking party ticket voter - the dumb one is just too lazy to even look at the different candidates and votes what his parents used to vote for no other reason.
As I said, I can understand where straight ticket voting comes from. I don't think that, in and of itself, is a bad thing. I think the watering down of philosophy to catch as many voters as possible between two belief systems makes that a dangerous thing to depend on because two belief systems are not enough to encompass the complexity of life. At least not any more.
I wasn't casting aspersions on anyone in this forum. I didn't realize that BadMan was putting quotes in your mouth (if I understand right what happened) - I just remembered that someone had said it.
And by the way, I know you well enough that I know you don't think that the Republican party completely encompasses everything you believe in and was only talking in generalities regarding expectations of huge parties that are too watered down.
[QUOTE=KeithEdwards]Very well written, but for me the bottom line is, I am burning my passport and never going back.[/QUOTE]If you're serious about this, all you need do is go to the Embassy and make an appointment with a staffer. In front of the staffer renounce your US citizenship, burning your passport is not required. Once you do that, you don't have to worry because you won't have it anymore.
I would suggest though that you have another country lined up to become a citizen of because if you're in BsAs and for whatever reason they deport you, you won't have anywhere else to go.
Best of luck.
[QUOTE=Daddy Rulz]If you're serious about this, all you need do is go to the Embassy and make an appointment with a staffer. In front of the staffer renounce your US citizenship, burning your passport is not required. Once you do that, you don't have to worry because you won't have it anymore.[/QUOTE]Come on! It's way more dramatical burning the passport!
The difference is like getting killed by a pill or getting murdered in the electric chair!
I'll do the video: An American citizen who burns his passport in front of the obelisco in BA, sorrounded of Good looking girls and dancers and screaming (as the girls they scream too) Fuck you Nigga! I'm never going back!
Ps: just to clarify, I'm not a racist, but I need that scene in this small movie (as it's very dramatic) and I wish I see for how long stills online on youtube.
"Can't we all just get along?"
He is being vetted for Attorney General.
[QUOTE=MCSE]Come on! It's way more dramatical burning the passport!
The difference is like getting killed by a pill or getting murdered in the electric chair!
I'll do the video: An American citizen who burns his passport in front of the obelisco in BA, sorrounded of Good looking girls and dancers and screaming (as the girls they scream too) Fuck you Nigga! I'm never going back!
Ps: just to clarify, I'm not a racist, but I need that scene in this small movie (as it's very dramatic) and I wish I see for how long stills online on youtube.[/QUOTE]If YOU say "fuck the nigga!" Actually I think you have to say nigger as well, nigga can be like "Barack, my nigga, what's happening?" Or even "Barack, oh he is my nigga" that's not a racist thing.