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For those of you looking to escape the hotel rates and privacy issues, I recommend you do a Google seach with these words:"inmobiliaria aquilar buenos aires". This translates to real estate rentals.
I recommend www. bytargentina.com for the best information site and a way to compare square meter prices, neighborhoods, apartment ammenities (you WANT a digital button phone), dates of availability. Buy a good map of B.A. so you can find neighborhoods and streets. Use it with the bytargentina maps t locate yourself close to the action. (Recoleta, Barrio Norte, Palermo Micro center, San Martin, and Belgrano)
For you DSL users, Your landlord can arrange to install a high speed connection thru Fibertel or Telefonica. This may take several days and I don't know the fees. Most apts have cable TV so that installation issue is solved.
IMO the best is [url]www.bytargentina.com[/url] and has real reasonable rates and charges a minimal commision.
The Buenos Aires Herald newspaper has several providers, most of which are way overpriced for their units and commisions. [url]www.apartmentsba.com[/url] and reynoldspropiedades.com are pricey and have, IMO, inflated rates for the general rental market by getting owners to list with them and jacking the prices up to cover their high commisions. These firms offer good properties and are reputable, but you can expect to pay a healthy premium for their service.
[url]www.easyrent.com.ar[/url] and gozalezpaglierie.com charge stiff commisions.
My personal experience with goz..paglier.. has been poor in that the price was raised from their posted internet sites, The apt was not cleaned and the plumbing and TV needed repairs which is done on YOUR time but no expense. ALWAYS ask what is the commision on top of the unit rental!
So, renter beware of hype and false promises. The renter above you can be your worst enemy when they clomp around in hard heeled shoes or drop crap on the floor or have a dog that is the hound of the Baskervilles or party on until you want to call the Hell's Angles for backup.
Before you sign a lease, Try to rent the place for Fri, Sat ,Sun and pay a premium for this time. Once you sign the lease and give deposit money your ass is theirs. Meet your neighbors FIRST!! DO TEST all plumbing, air-con, heat ,electric devices and lighting, linen supplies,kitchen utensils, windows and doors. They love to slam doors - must be a macho thing. My cheap landlady wouldn't reimburse me for 3 two peso light bulbs! Try to get a unit that is ¨contrafrente¨which means in the rear of the building, away from the fckn buses, traffic, and stink.
Your apt can make or break you stay in this BEAUTIFUL city. Be careful and do diligence in selecting your crib. Better you should spend two weeks in a hotel (chica friendly) and spend your time investigating apartments than to pay an outrageous sum for an abode that you will hate. And, dont be afraid to say you want a micro-wave, cleaning supplies, better tv, whatever. They want your money so get everything up-front, in writing with delivery dates. Better yet, compose a list of your wants, have them sign it, and state you will purchase the items and deduct from the monthly rent.
One last but real important issue is monthly operating expense. bytargentina spells this out in their disclosure section of services and costs. Usually, there are no add-ons. My experience is you may have to pay for Cable TV $40usd/mo), water-gas-electric ($20usd/mo), Phone ($5 & up). Building expenses can be $80usd and up, BUT these should be borne by the landlord including pest (aka COCKROACHES) control.
I hope I have not scarred everyone to go to a hotel. Not my intention! With over 5 months here I've heard a lot of stories about rip offs, high prices and bad service, bad deposit refunds by greedy landlords and agents, promises made but not kept, on and on.
RENTER BEWARE!
Best of Luck scoring the pad of your dreams.
Jackpot
PS. Thanks Jefe Jackson for this new forum to help us pilgrims here find our way in this Magic Country!
I visited the Mansion when I was in BA in January. When I saw the pool all I could think of was how wonderful it would be to have a pool like that with a few naked chicas in it. Chica soup! So ... is it possible to rent a much smaller version of the Mansion, with its own private pool? Where would such places be listed?
Thanks, Bob
Just to add a couple of thoughts to Jackpot's excellent advice.
One, start your search early. I gave myself one month to find an apartment here, having all ready settled into a temporary one with all the conveniences of phone and DSL to aid the search. It can take forever to get a response even from byt. It can take time to contact the owners, and get keys to view the apartment, most agents don't answer the phone on weekends, time just to go look and time to negociate the deal. My advice, give yourself two months.
I found the classified listings at Il Nacion, one of the major newspapers here, to be the best "live" source of apartments: [url]http://clasificados.lanacion.com.ar/inmueblesRespuesta.asp[/url]
You can sort by barrio and they identify new posts every day with "hoy". You'll spend some time figuring out the contracted words in Spanish and what they mean. You'll need to speak Spanish for most conversations or get someone who does to follow up your choices but it's by far, IMHO, the best resource.
If you give up on that route you're in the hands of agents who'll help you in English. I can't speak to all but they are going to hammer on a high fee for "finding it" for you.
Jackpot,
You posted some good information. I did laugh when you said that my company offers properties that are overpriced. The reason why WSG has [b]never[/b] been and will [b]never[/b] be a source of rentals for me is because the vast majority of WSG guys are guys that are cheap and simply won't anty up to stay in a nicer place. The way the rental market works is based on pure supply and demand. Why would I offer an apartment rental at less than a certain price when the apartment stays busy 27 days a month and books 4 months ahead of time? I have been renting out apartments here for almost 3 years. I really understand this business.
My company offers quality apartments. Granted some apartments that I don't own or manage the quality is not as good as my managed properties. We only act as a listing service for several owners. (Although within a year or so I plan on ditching all the properties I don't own or manage. I'm getting enough clients now where that gameplan is feasible after a year or so.) The ones I own or manage are great properties. Properties like A1 on my site are true 5 star properties with high-speed internet access, luxury furniture and lighting, local cell phone and a USA phone line where you can make/receive unlimited calls to the USA. It is much much better than a hotel room that is priced a lot higher.
Also, keep in mind that I know my competition and I don't really think I have too much serious competition. The local companies are horrible at answering emails or addressing problems when you have them. I've used several companies in town including some that Jackpot mentioned. Try getting your AC fixed when it breaks or having problems. I've rented several apartments (including the one I am in now) and I've had tons of problems where the company did nothing for me. I had to endure a month of no AC, refrigerator breaking for a few weeks, not getting my security deposit back, etc.
Also, Bacchus mentioned other sources. Yes, you can find more affordable alternatives but the honest truth is that most of them are what I call "crap rentals". You can spin your wheels and spend a lot of time going from apartment to apartment trying to find something. Also, I have tried this and try dealing with some of the locals that are plain theives. I negotiated a contract with a local owner only to have her keep changing it on me up until the date of the signing of the contract. I finally walked away. Some of you guys make it sound like it's so easy dealing with locals. It's not. I deal with local owners on a daily basis. Most are not reasonable people to deal with.
What my company does is makes the process easier of finding a good rental. No hassles, we are quick to communicate and email, all my employees speak English, and no problems with paying by bankwire or paypal.com. There is a cost for convenience and quality and most people realize that. It's the plain and simple reason why my company is growing as fast as it is.
Jackpot, thanks for mentioning that we are reputable and offer good properties. What I'm doing is not rocket science. I basically publically posted my business plan for the past several years. My goal was becoming the largest property management company of foreign owned property in Argentina within 3 years of moving here. We are on pace to do that. I am proud to say that I am working on several larger projects that involve buying land and building apartment buildings with 30 or 40 units. I'm sure it will take time but I do see it happening in the future.
I posted a long time ago that tourism would explode and it has. I see that trend continuing for the foreseeable future. I also posted on property prices and I have been dead on target. I see prices continuing to escalate. As I said before, many foreigners are going to make a fortune on real estate here.
Good luck all.
Saint, if we WSG guys are so cheap, why do you tout your pricey apartments
on the wsg and argentina sites? Maybe you should stick to the BA herald
and leave us ¨cheap¨ wsg members to our own devices.
By the way anty up is correctly spelled as ante up.
Jackpot
Jackpot,
Hey, as always I call them like I see them. Jackson is free to remove the section from "Saint" on WSG. I already told him and others that WSG has never been and will never be a serious source of business for me. I think I've had a total of 4 WSG guys book apartments with me in 6 months since moving here.
I already have told Jackson that I probably won't be posting any posts anymore as I've gotten too busy. No need to tout on WSG and I won't be posting any more apartment posts here. Really, the biggest source of business for me is referrals from others that have already stayed in my properties, repeat guests that stay in my properties each/every time they come to BA, Google and vacation websites.
By the way, it's alquilar and not aquilar as you previously posted. Good luck to you.
Saint
Sorry to hear your not going to be posting anymore, I've learned a ton from you. I have read with interest about the development of your business and have to say I admire your courage. You saw an opportunity and bet a lot in taking advantage of it. I'll miss reading about it.
2 very clever guys who know there areas of expertise and mark it like a lion soils his hunting ground. They will be missed.
Starfe
Sao Paulo is wonderful this time of year. Ass to ass or should I say wall to wall.
[QUOTE=Starfe]2 very clever guys who know there areas of expertise and mark it like a lion soils his hunting ground. They will be missed.
Starfe
Sao Paulo is wonderful this time of year. Ass to ass or should I say wall to wall.[/QUOTE]
Didn't Andres leave too?
I think there are a lot of different type of guys who come to BA. Some guys will stay in a 30 peso a night place, while some can afford the 800 peso a night. Most come because of the great variety of chicas, and the reasonable prices.
I stayed in a hotel the first time, and rented an apartment for the second. If I come for a week or more, I would certainly always stay in an apartment.
I've had good luck with ByT, and will rent with them when I come later this year. They have decent pictures, and I've always gotten a response within 24 hours.
If there's anywhere YMMV it has to be with the hunt for an apartment. The downside of Byt if you're looking for something beyond 180 days is the max stay limitation they put on most aparments. That and the long delay I experienced getting a response even after talking to Julia on the phone in English.
As I look out from the 13th floor across Buenos Aires, basically a landscape of apartment buildings short and tall one cannot help but think that there's an apartment out there with the qualities I want at a price in line with what Argentinos are accustomed to pay. When I tell Argentinos what I pay for my apartment they blanche and get eyes the size of saucers. It's about 50% over whatever they have in their minds. I cannot rationalize it enough to make it make sense for them.
I have no quarrel with Saint and his services. He has certainly helped me by collapsing the process of finding an apartment and like always there's a price to pay for service. As long as you recognize that fact, which he makes no bones about, going in you won't be wrenching at the cost of an apartment in the 1K or above range when you're looking at apartments in the papers for $400 to $900 US. I do think he gets a little off the mark on the subject of cutting through problems with landlords or owners and getting things fixed as I've found even in the apartments I've rented via Saint that getting things fixed and getting things negotiated out is fraught with considerations. Saint has been there to mediate but the fact is you're dealing with Argentinos and just like el sexo, it's intense and personal. Kissing is optional. Things move at a different pace. After 2 months the bidet is finally fixed and not flooding the bathroom floor each time a chica uses it, por ejemplo.
I'll miss Saint on the board as he's been generous with information and I've often wondered if I'd of had the brass to move here without posts like his and others. On the other hand perhaps others without the self interest that always skews Saint's posts will emerge, Jackpot step forward, and cut the Gordian knot of renting aparments long term in Buenos Aires. It's a huge market and as always the prospect of finding a great apartment at a great price is swimming out there like a Hemingway fishing expedition.
Time, patience, Spanish, determination and a lawyer.
Hello all,
I just arrived in BA and am now looking for an apartment for 3-6 months. There are web sites with some nice listings, but I am trying to save a good chunk of $ by renting from an owner directly.
I discovered that the renter pays the agent a commision equal to at least half a month's rent and sometimes more. In my case, that translates to $250-300. In the case of web sites like BYTArgentina.com, it doesn't appear that they charge an outright commision, rather they roll it into the rent, which is higher than equivalent units I've seen listed elsewhere.
I am willing to pay a reasonable commision (about $50 to $100) to an agent willing to help me for a day or two, but I will not pay $300+.
If anyone has been in contact with the owner of an apartment anywhere in Palermo, Recoleta, Bario Norte, or San Telmo, I would greatly appreciate their contact info.
Yos
I was one of Saints stupid customers who he promised the world to get me to buy a apartment in BA. I did buy an apartment but where was Saint?
His answer, I have bigger and better clients to deal with than my little chickenshit apartment.
So there I am in BA going through the motions trying to find workers and learning the whole system. After the purchase, which he still did not have the courtesy to even meet me one day while I'm in BA, asks me do I still want him to manage my apartment.
Get real!!!..He brags about being the biggest foreign property management company in BA. Perhaps, but if he did business in the US like he does in BA he would be bankrupt.
Just my 2 cents. Anyone want anymore info...pm me.
Member 1036,
No offense but you are the perfect example of the WSG cheap guy. I didn't promise you the world. More like I told you I would help you find you a good apartment. You are the only WSG client and the only one that complained almost the entire process. You are in the real estate business in the USA and you expected everything to be the same as the USA when everything is VERY different here. Really just about everything is different here than the USA. The process is very different and things come up. I don't think you ever appreciated how great the process is in the USA compared to South America.
It was frustrating dealing with you. I wouldn't post other than the fact that there are 2 sides to every story. You wanted to spend very little but you wanted some really great apartment close to Recoleta. I found you a great apartment for relatively little money. It was almost impossible finding something for the amount you spent that would yield good rental results but I did.
When I tried to provide you referrals to good honest people you came back with responses like, "I'll have the doorman downstairs install it for cheaper". That is the God's honest truth. I offered to help you with quality people yet you opted to always do the cheapest method whether it was the right method or not. (Having the doorman install a split air-conditioner is not the proper method). I tried to give you referrals to honest people but you chose to do it all yourself. I told you that I had painters, electricians, plumbers, etc.
Frankly, after listening to you complain so much I just got frustrated dealing with you. I have the chain of emails to document everything if need be. If you are going to tell a story the entire story should be told. Actually, maybe one of my clients that reads this board can chime in because he was with me I believe 2 times when I talked to this Member 1036 guy on the phone. He can give his input of what was said. I do remember my client saying something how he couldn't believe what a piker this guy was being. I helped this guy buy 2 apartments and he didn't seem to complain at all.
You expected to charge a premium for a rental without wanting to invest any money. That simply isn't realistic. I wanted to buy that apartment that you bought for myself and even up to the last minute I offered to buy it if you didn't want to. If you were so unhappy with the apartment you should have accepted my offer to purchase it. That is a great apartment and you got it at a great price. My offer still stands, if you are so unhappy with it, I'll buy it from you for the price you paid, plus the realtor's commission.
Dealing with you is a prime example of what I would call a WSG cheap ass. Not all guys from WSG are like you. I've met a couple of really great guys. Just my 2 cents. If anyone wants more info... PM me.
P.S. It wasn't your little "chickenshit apartment". It was more like dealing with a client that was complaining all the time and perhaps one of the biggest pikers I've ever met. Good luck.
I'm going to use your worker to paint my apartment and you tell me it will cost about $1,500 US. And I'm cheap? I'll let everyone else make the decision and yes anyone can PM me and I also will supply emails of Saint to back me up and this is a dead issue from here.
I NEVER quoted u$s 1,500. I quoted 1500 PESOS.(And I said that was the maximum). I said that the painter would have to go there and see the apartment to give you an exact estimate. I have nothing to do with the prices charges by the contractors and I only use people that are dependable and know what they are doing and charge fair prices. I offered to give you the phone numbers of several trained, affordable and capable people and you didn't want any of the numbers.
Yes, this is a dead issue for me as well. Funny that you are the only one complaining and the only one that complained throughout the entire process. My apartments are booked solid and so are those that I am managing. Honestly, I wish you the best of luck with your apartment. I stand by my call that it's a beautiful apartment and you got a great deal for it. Good luck.
I was in BA buying my second apartment when this was going on. Saint was very busy but he still went shopping with me. He even found time to have a lot of lunches and a few dinners with me. I am not paying him to do it either. He offered to do it gratis when he first moved down there. Now that he is busy he has kept his word. With all there is to do in BA you wont believe what he talked most about. He talked about some guy who wanted to save 100 or 200 pesos by letting the doorman paint the apartment. That same guy wanted the doorman to install the AC to save some money, which i think violates the warranty of your ac. When you are sick you go to the doctor not the doorman. Saint has never quoted me a price for someone else’s service. He has given me an estimate and then gives me the price after the contractor looks it over. With the exception of my sound proof windows every contractor finished on time and on schedule. The windows were late but they were in before the first guest.
I don’t have a lot of time to use my vacation. If I had a few months to shop around I am sure I would be able to do it for less. But I am also sure I would get bitten buy a shark which would offset the savings.
I am not going to lie, I went over my initial budget by quite a bit. But that was my choice. I saw the difference in quality of custom furniture vs good furniture in a shop and thought it was worth the difference. I know I will make it up by staying more full and being able to charge more. I know what I like in an apartment of a hotel when I use my precious vacation time. I don’t want to slum it when I travel, I am not 20 backpacking through Europe anymore. That was fun though.
Right now its hard to get a hotel room in BA. Apartments are not that easy to get anymore. So you bought some Square meters in BA in a good location at a time when supply it tight. You should be making money on that apartment. Who do you want to rent to and how much can you get for it. Lets suppose an apartment same size same feature is next door to you and it is completely tricked out. It might get 125 to 150 per day. But if you have bare wires holding a light bulb, a mattress on the floor, urine stained couch, well picture a crack house. How much can you get for it and who would stay there.
The most expensive thing is the Square meter. The rest is some fraction of that. Calculate over 5 years the cost of the furniture vs the increased rent. Good furniture, higher rent means better people and less ware and tare on your stuff. Good things like a good mattress last longer and the cost per day can actually be less than a cheaper one that needs to be changed in 2 years.
Why did you buy an apartment? I assume to make money. You have the apartment. Its in a good location. Do you want to make $30 a day or $100 a day? Do you want 5% occupancy per month or 95% occupancy? Who will collect your rent, pay your bills, get someone to fix things when they break?
Saint has had $250,000 cash of my money in his account. He did not take it. So I know he will not cheat me on the rent. I can trust him. Who do you know in BA that would not skip town with $250k or your money. And that was just my money not the other guys money. If I could spend an extra $5k and get and extra $5k per year 100% ROR wouldn’t I be stupid not to. What about 50% ROR? What is you number to do the deal. If you were expecting to pay for your apartment in 2 years you were wrong. Like any investment you need to do the numbers. One on the biggest numbers for me is the cost of the ticket and the time on the plane. BA is a long way from the rest of the world. Most people don’t go to monger. When they get to BA they want comfort, style, a little class. Yes yes a little ass is great, but that is not most people. So figure out who you want to rent to and target that audience.
If you want the low end then you made the right choice because who cares if it is not a professional paint job. In the U.S I can do a professional paint job, latex on latex on top of sheet rock you cant go wrong. But their ant no sheet rock in BA. They also got all the kinds of paint they don’t and cant sell anymore in the U.S.A. That means if you paint is old and they put the wrong stuff on top, you will pay for another strip and paint job.
It’s a scary process to buy property in a foreign country. I hope it works out for you. If you are snake bit and want to unload the property it will probably sell. If you thought you could buy a mansion for $50 bucks then you are probably really disappointed. Two years ago you could have gotten that apartment for a lot less. But we cant do anything about the past. So my suggestion is focus on the future, fix your objectives, make a plan, stick to the plan, change the plan if it isn’t working. So sell the apartment or rent it out. If you rent it out, find someone you trust, find someone who keeps it full, and find some who doesn’t mind your cheap ways.
For somebody who operates in a service industry, Saint is sure quick to attack his customers and, even more disturbingly, potential customers.
Do I need to do business with somebody who posts that he holds people like me in contempt?
There are plenty of people to rent apartments through in Buenos Aires. I think I can find one who won't go insulting me on the internet. What's next, posting my personal details because he's pissed at me? For somebody with such apparent anger at his clientele, I wouldn't put that past him.
Very strange posting
Hi Hunt99,
Your observation is accurate. While Saint may provide good service, anyone who even mildly questions, challenges or critizes him gets attacked big time.
His words and actions do not seem to equate. It would appear to question his desire to 'provide top U.S. level service' in Buenos Aires, which he claims is lacking here and he will provide.
However, since he is moving on and leaving us 'cheap' mongers on WSG, everyone benefits.
Suerte,
Bruce
Stowe, I should add that I'm sure Saint has had problems with customers - anybody who has customers certainly will. But a good businessman doesn't engage in internet pissing contests or accuse all people reading this board of being cheap.
One thing I'm not, is cheap.
On the other hand, I'm also not going to rent an apartment from somebody who posts:
"Dealing with you is a prime example of what I would call a WSG cheap ass. Not all guys from WSG are like you. I've met a couple of really great guys."
My question is, which of you is one of those "couple of really great guys"? Because I'd like to take a whiff of your behind since your shit obviously doesn't stink! :)
Hunt99,
I'm not attacking my "customers". Heck, I'm not attacking anyone. As I posted, I really don't consider WSG guys my customers. I'm not engaging in internet pissing contests. I'm telling it like it is. As I mentioned, not all of you guys are cheap. What I've found over the several years on the forum is that the majority of guys that have emailed or PM'ed me are what I would consider "cheap". There is certainly nothing wrong with being cheap either. Again, I'm not attacking anyone. Anyway, as Stowe said, everyone benefits by the cheap guys not working with me.
Again, nothing wrong with being cheap. The only reason I took time to post was to explain my side of what happened with the guy complaining. Yes, in any service industry you will have complaints. It's inevitable. What I strive to do is get back to people quickly, offer great customer service, surround myself with great employees and offer great properties. As I mentioned before, I plan to slowly dump all the local properties that I don't own or manage off my page slowly over the next 3 years to better control quality and customer service. The locals aren't the best to work with when it comes to that.
I have no knock against WSG guys at all. As mentioned, I've met some real class act guys. My beef is from guys that email trying to nickle and dime every posted price,etc. The fact remains that I could never get another WSG booking and it would have 0% effect on my bottom line. That is just a fact. Funny one of my clients was working out in a gym when they told some dude from this board they were my client and he grumbled that my properties were overpriced (seriously funny since this guy referred some realtor on this board that has been incorrectly charging Americans a 2.5% tax that should be waived). They laughed because they were buying a property that I would manage. A property is only overpriced if it's priced at a level where it remains unbooked. If a property is at $1,000 per night and stays booked 27 days a month than it means it's not overpriced. Pure supply and demand which many on this board seem to have trouble understanding. That is my only beef with many that email me.
Many of you probably own your own businesses, or work in an environment where you deal with clients. How would you feel if most of the phone calls or emails you get from one particular group was always trying to negotiate with your prices. Where the majority of the times you got emails they were always complaining about prices even though your company was very busy already and having no problems selling a product or service. Wouldn't you be qualified to classify the people emailing you a certain way? That is my only point here. The very few that I have dealt with on this forum renting apartments from me were gentlemen that I had no problems with and I think they could say the same thing about me. I opted to give some of them discounted prices because they rented from me before. I offered it because I wanted to not because they demanded it like many emails I get.
There are plenty of companies that rent apartments in Buenos Aires and plenty of business for all of them. As far as anger, I have no anger. I'm probably one of the happiest guys I know. I'm living in one of my most favorite cities in the world and plan to live here the rest of my life. Life is good. Good luck fellas.
Just could not let Saint have the last word.
Jackpot
It is one thing to insult people on purpose and another thing to insult them because of imprecise use of language.
Having studied English literature in college, it is my understanding that "cheap" is negative, but "fruuuuuugal" is positive. Likewise, "stingy" is negative, but, "thriiiiiifty" is positive. It's the magic of connotation.
ferolga
Ferolga777
Have you ever noticed though that cheap people think they are frugal but they are really only cheap pr1cks?
one is frugally thrifty?
I would guess thats borderline cheap!
Also guys remember that some have to be cheap asses while others simply choose to be!
Ok Saint...you want to talk about CUSTOMER SERVICE!!! You brag about customer service. Isn't customer service helping a client in a foreign country. At least going with him to the signing. Helping him bring cash from bank to the signing instead of saying "oh its only 4 blocks to the signing and you can just carry it in your pocket". Oh yeah, I'm in a foreign country with poverty around and you tell me to carry 40k cash in my pocket unprotected in the streets.
Let me advice you that customer service is at least meeting your client once face to face. You did not even have time to meet me once nor attempt to.
Also, if I was such a pain in the ass customer, then why a week before closing you gave my name as a referral to other customers.
Cheap? Where in the negotiations did cheap come into play when you were the one to make suggestions on price. Also, as said before, cheap is a very offensive word.
I think this thread has proved enough as just a view from the otherside instead of him bragging about how good he is. If I had at least seen some comments from others before I invested with him, I would have had second thoughts along with some others I spoke to while I was there.
At least others will have a chance to make up their own minds but since Saint thinks most of us are cheap guys, nobody here has any money anyways and so it really doesn't matter.
I've had very positive dealings with Saint. I'm sure that your experiences are as you report. His business has quickly expanded and likely is having some growing pains.
...one point in advance of member#1036 : never walk arround with big cash. I hope that saint NEVER advised someone to do that.
There are safe and cheap ways for the transport..."even just for 4 blocks"...a lot of investors got robbed, beaten or whatever as someone knew, they walked arround with money.
I am shure...saint will never be robbed here...(joke...sorry for his laptop) ;)
Prices are defined in the market, reading three days "classificados" will show you the exact bases depending on location.
There are FEW real estate brokers with 100% reputation and if you are depending on a "full service" (as lacking language, laws, notarys, taxnumbers eec.) you have got to pay.
Not everything must be payd in cash...I was helping a lot of new guys here for free or they insisted to invite me for a dinner...this is Southamerica ok?
My family is selling an apartment I have and they found a buyer. This customer paid a couple thousand USD to secure the transaction signing a bill, with the remaining to be paid at the time of signing the final papers.
Meanwhile, this customer wanted to get their his furniture into the apartment. He affirmed his best intentions an mentioned a professional link that he had with one of the family members. However, he wasn't allowed to get his furniture inside.
Today, the inmobiliaria called me to mention that the transaction fell. Why? The buyer couldn't secure the money from an apartment he sold some time ago because his own buyer didn't pay him since posession.
Thanks God we didn't let him occupy the apartment!
NEVER EVER LET SOMEONE TAKE POSESSION OF YOUR SELLING PROPERTY BEFORE THE TOTAL CANCELLATION.
This may help you understand why people want cash for a transaction, and all before the transfer of property.
Hope this helps,
Andres
Yes, always good to have cash in hand. Thanks for the heads up! Hopefully you'll get to hang onto the deposit, or resell it for a larger amount.
Does anyone know about breaking apartment leases here? After months of negotiating I'm finally about to sign one. It is for 12 months. Like most people, I was unable to get a garantia. Therefore, the owner is requiring a year's rent as a deposit, which is better for him than the more common rent prepayment. I understand why he would want this - supposedly if a tenant decided in month 12 that he's not leaving and not paying anymore, the landlord would need a couple years in Argentine courts before he can legally remove him. I'm reading over the lease and it looks pretty standard. I've seen one before. It does not specify anything about what would happen if I wanted to leave before the 12-month period expired. I spoke with a few Argentine friends and they said they thought that normally you can break a lease after 6 mos without a penalty, and before 6 mos there might be a 1-2 month penalty. But Ive had nothing confirmed, and have no idea about my rather large deposit. I guess (I'd have some leverage if there was a disagreement and my landlord would not refund my deposit. I could say I'll vacate the apartment when and only when he refunds the deposit. I don't know how this works here.
Any advice appreciated.
My girlfriend tells me that because of the difficulty evicting people, most Argeninian evictions are done with a group of guys and a baseball bat. I don't know if there is any truth to this but I would consider it before not moving out.
As far as breaking a lease I'm clueless but I could email some friends if you would like.
... if you quit before month no. 12, you have to pay a fine of one month.
If you want to leave after month 13 your fine is half month.
"Deslocacion" of a tennant, who does not pay, will cost six months, since the new laws give higher protection to the landlord.
A skilled landlord always wears good English or Hungarian boots
(I recommend "Ludwig Reiter" or "Edward Green") to be able to open a door of a tennant, who does not pay, with a smart sidekick.
If you (as NOT having garantia) will pay 12 months, usually you will never see the money again. A good broker will find you landlords who will accept a deposit of 3-6 months and a revolving payment from the first month aside to be secure.
I have had three leases here. The first was for one year, paid up front with a one month deposit. It was for a grand apartment on Quintana at $900 a month. Got my deposit back less the last months unpaid utility bills.
The second and current is for a modern 2BR 2 Ba also in Recoleta, building with pool, security, gym. Also paid one year up front and upon renewal this past March I paid the second year (with a 5% escalator in the lease) With this apartment I offered only a 2000 pesos deposit. This landlord is a little more profit driven and I am sure will try to stiff me for painting the whole place or some such BS. I know because when we renewed he moaned about undervalue of this years rent becasue rents had gone up and he could get 50% more than what I was paying.
Most other folks I have talked to can get by with 3 months advance rent and then pay monthly. Most deposits are one or two months only to cover unpaid utility bills and some possible damage. I personanly preferred the full year so I could relax and not worry about paying (plus this year my girlfriend understands that if I have the big one while we are playing she has a place to stay until March)
While the rules here are tough and some friends did not agree with me paying a full year, I would never give a full year deposit becasue I doubt you will see it again. Losing a couple hundred on some deposit is another story. You can buy garantia from ads in the Clarin.
Overall the landlords have not been a pain during my three years here. On the subject of garantia I remember telling one landlord (when I rented a small furnished apartment for my girlfriend for a few months - the third lease) who made a big deal out of needing a garantia that a year's rent was a true garantia and that if something happened to me no familiy member was going to fly down for my personal property (electronics, some furniture, etc. Then I pointed out that we were in Argentina where they guaranteed their bonds for all those investors! The took the up front money and two months deposits (this was a pesos deal)
Good luck, but it sounds like one year deposit is way off base. Pay the year, offer one month deposit and relax. If you have to leave after some time you only lose a few hundred bucks. If you have been negotiating for some time the apartment is not generating any money and the landlord will deal. I think sometimes here thereal estate is like the lady's. Some are waiting for the big night of $300 while the majority will take 100 pesos per hour.
Both Spassmusssein and Thomaso are absolutely correct. It just depends on the owner. Many are getting stricter about having a guarantor but generally Americans and foreigners are favored over locals for renting property. Over the years I've leased many properties. Even now I lease several properties. It makes it MUCH easier now that I own several properties and have references from prominent owners that I have rented from over the years. Many now don't make me pay anything in advance and only a one month security deposit. Still, you should know that even if you own property you usually can't act as your own guanantor.
Some apartments typically in really great buildings are tougher. I had to have a guarantor for the new apartment that I'm in now. I moved to a really great apartment on Ave. Alvear right near the Alvear Palace. I had to have a guarantor even though I offered to pay the entire 2 years upfront. I didn't have to end up paying in advance but you will find a good strategy with the locals is to prepay and ask for a substancial discount. Many owners like the safety of getting paid up front so they will offer you a good discount. Also, it can be a good strategy for you as well to lock in the rate no matter what happens with prices. I would guess that the u$s 1,500/month rent that I'm paying now will approach upwards of u$s 2,000/month by next year. Pricey but it's a "Palace". At least I have the price locked in for 2 years.
As the other fellas mentioned, typical legal leases here are 24 months (2 years) Good luck.
I'm me, a friend of the family does this. He's a wonderful old guy that walks like a penguin named Billy. He lived in the EEUU for a few years and thinks he speaks English. The garantia will be trutcho (sp) but should work. I have no idea about his rates shop him and if hes ripping you off go elsewhere, but I suspect he might cut you a break with a referal. Talking to him is worth the price of a coffee even if you don't do business.
There are a bunch of thugs linked to the Federal Police who provide this service for around USD 3,000. It is expensive, but cheaper than to replace the whole furniture and decoration destroyed by an angry tenant at the verge of eviction.
Mobs, lawyers, police officers, etc, profit from a slow and cumbersome renting system. It is not an "accident" that this system is inefficient, it is desing to work like that.
Hope this helps,
Andres
Thanks for the responses guys. At least some of you havent been personally burned recently.
A lawyer friend of mine returned one of my messages today and confirmed a lot of what you wrote. One discrepancy - she said the penalty for breaking a lease, which is normally for 24 months, is about 1.5 months rent if breaking before month 6 and 1 months rent for breaking after month 6. Either way, thats not a big penalty. Although this is not specified in my contract, she said it is widely known and also clearly stated by civil law code.
She also said that my deposit legally must be returned (less any deductions for damaged items) upon vacating the apartment even if I break the lease early. I know that once you give someone money here, whether in the form of a loan, deposit, tax retention, etc, it does seem less likely that money will ever be seen again. But I'm taking the leap of faith. I will have some leverage since I will be residing in the asset effectively collaterized by my one-year deposit.
A couple of you mentioned buying and rigging garantias. I recommend not doing this. After being turned down by all my Argentine friends with property in Capital, I made a last ditch effort and visited one of the places that sell garantias. They'll give you one and you only have to pay (the equivalent of one months rent) if your potential landlord accepts it. So I took this document (deed for a similarly-valued property in Once) to the landlord and he said he'd check it out. He called me back some days later informing me that the property got about 20 "hits" per day. Not surprsingly, it was a totally worthless and used-up garantia; there is obviously a system to verify these.