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I was talking to a friend of "ours" the other night and we were wondering if there was another example of a country that literally dropped from first world status to third world satus?
Rags to riches is eazy; but it seems that Argentina went from riches to rags!
From becoming one of the world's richest nations in about 100 years to being what it is today about 100 years later!
Can you think of another example?
TL.
P. S - Of course I will get back to talking about Chicas as soon as possible!
[QUOTE=TejanoLibre]Can you think of another example?[/quote]Well, not 1st world to 3rd world, but as for going to maybe #1 in the world to barely second tier on it's own continent, in about 100 years: Argentina's mother country: Spain, from the 16th century, to the 17th and beyond, after the sinking of the Armada, the squandering of the gold reserves, etc.
If you want to go back a few thousand years, and give things a few more centuries or millennia to deteriorate, didn't Egypt and Greece rule the world at one time? And the Caliphate in the Middle East? Find me a 1st world country there, now.
I'm hoping the USA isn't next on this list, but the headlines get harder and harder to read every day, don't they.
[QUOTE=Big Travel Guy][QUOTE=TejanoLibre]Can you think of another example?[/quote]Well, not 1st world to 3rd world, but as for going to maybe #1 in the world to barely second tier on it's own continent, in about 100 years: Argentina's mother country: Spain, from the 16th century, to the 17th and beyond, after the sinking of the Armada, the squandering of the gold reserves, etc.
If you want to go back a few thousand years, and give things a few more centuries or millennia to deteriorate, didn't Egypt and Greece rule the world at one time? And the Caliphate in the Middle East? Find me a 1st world country there, now.
I'm hoping the USA isn't next on this list, but the headlines get harder and harder to read every day, don't they.[/QUOTE]I could think about several examples but none in a 100 year period. I think about the chinese who were the ruling power in the world back in the 1400's to becoming colonized by european powers in th XIX century, suffering the opium wars with GB, the boxers rebellion, warlords in the early XX century and suffering the rape of Nankin in 1937 and of course the japanese invasion until 1945. Their rebound in such short time is amazing.
Another country passing from riches to rags was the Ottoman Empire, one of the most powerful empires in the Rennaisance, which twice almost conquered Vienna, mastered the Mediterranean Sea in the XVI Century and was incredibly rich to it's defeat in WWI.
Could we think of Iran in the XX Century? Think about the Sha's and how Iran looked like a promising land in 1975 before the revolution of the Ayatollah, compared to today being ruled by greedy Mullahs.
It's sad to say it because it is my country but México is suffering the same fate as Argentina, 30 years ago, without being a super power, we had a big middle class and economic growth, tons of oil, right now. Hell, you know!
[QUOTE=TejanoLibre]Can you think of another example?[/QUOTE]How about Russia? They were one of the leading powers of the 19th and early 20th century. Then, they had the Bolshevik Revolution. While they maintained their "superpower' status during this time, the standard of living for the Russian people clearly suffered the same fate as the Argentine people now -- slow but persistent decline due to bad politics and corrupt rulers. They finally got to the point where they could no longer compete in the arms race, and the whole thing collapsed.
Now, the Soviet Union is no more (at least as a formal regime rather than a sphere of influence) and Russia is back. So, Russia has done a return trip. But, up until 1987 or so, Russia clearly had gone from first world to third world, at least if the measure is standard of living. They're on their way back now -- though still saddled with corrupt politicians -- but I think the country is another example of riches to rags comparable to today's Argentina.
[QUOTE=Big Travel Guy]Well, not 1st world to 3rd world, but as for going to maybe #1 in the world to barely second tier on it's own continent, in about 100 years: Argentina's mother country: Spain, from the 16th century, to the 17th and beyond, after the sinking of the Armada, the squandering of the gold reserves, etc.
If you want to go back a few thousand years, and give things a few more centuries or millennia to deteriorate, didn't Egypt and Greece rule the world at one time? And the Caliphate in the Middle East? Find me a 1st world country there, now.
I'm hoping the USA isn't next on this list, but the headlines get harder and harder to read every day, don't they.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Big Travel Guy]
And the Caliphate in the Middle East? Find me a 1st world country there, now.[/QUOTE]Easy, I believe that would be Israel. Thankfully, I've never been there and have no intentions of finding out for myself.
Recall the teleology: 1st world=the developed democratic countries, 2nd world=the developed communist countries, 3rd world=all the rest.
Mis dos centavos,
Jazz /
[QUOTE=Jazzplayer]Easy, I believe that would be Israel. Thankfully, I've never been there and have no intentions of finding out for myself.[/QUOTE]You've never been there. I am sure that their populace is happy to hear that you have no interest in ever going there. FYI, Israel hasn't been in existence for 100 years.
[quote=]Recall the teleology: 1st world=the developed democratic countries, 2nd world=the developed communist countries, 3rd world=all the rest. [/QUOTE]I would say 3rd includes all of the failed 2s, as well. BTW, Israel is both developed and democratic, and a nuclear power too.
While I am not Jewish, I am a son of David.
Lebanon,
A resort like country to a pile of rubble in a few years.
Fellows, I do not know what is the point of this thread, but no argies enter this forum any more.
I do not know if even expats enter here any more.
And with that you have missed am essential source of information about girls and privados. And night clubs.
If you have been more smart you would have proceed like the italian forum or like the french forum or like the german forum, try to mix with the local people here and get belangrijk information.
But instead you isolated yourselves, and save one or two posts a day no one real valuable information about mongering in Buenos Aires is posted in this forum.
You been so wrong in so many appreciations about politics and economy and argentine and worldwide living that no one expect any true appreciation about what is happening here or in the united states any more. I read astonishing informations here like HIV is harmless, global warning a fraud, Obamas health reform unnecesarie and other idiotic things even argies fall down with laughter werever I comment what I have read here.
You are only a sad and conservatives bunch of mongers who came to this beautiful country only to do what it is not allowed for you to do in your "wonderful" and "free" country, that is, to fuck pretty girls at a very low cost. You waste your dollars in Madaho's and Hippo and don't know a shit where the real hot and inexpensive places are.
All local forums are filled with information about these, but you ignore them because you are so proud and arrogant but so stupid that very few of you can read spanish.
You live isolated in this country like a bunch of old faggots in a bus tour through the 3er World.
But in spite of that you pretend to know the place, to dissect its politic its history and its economy like you were living here fifty years, travelled all the country, mixed with all social strata.
Come on, your are ridiculous.
Keep on mongering and wasting your dollars like the sad people you are, and do not try to talk about what you do not know.
I am a dutchman, and very proud of being so.
Not by chance american people is considered the scourge of humanity by three cuarters of the world nowadays.
Great post. I especially like the faggots on the bus comment. I've never seen so many gossiping, cheap old queens.
[QUOTE=Fernando22]Fellows, I do not know what is the point of this thread, but no argies enter this forum any more.
I do not know if even expats enter here any more.
And with that you have missed am essential source of information about girls and privados. And night clubs.
If you have been more smart you would have proceed like the italian forum or like the french forum or like the german forum, try to mix with the local people here and get belangrijk information.
But instead you isolated yourselves, and save one or two posts a day no one real valuable information about mongering in Buenos Aires is posted in this forum.
You been so wrong in so many appreciations about politics and economy and argentine and worldwide living that no one expect any true appreciation about what is happening here or in the united states any more. I read astonishing informations here like HIV is harmless, global warning a fraud, Obamas health reform unnecesarie and other idiotic things even argies fall down with laughter werever I comment what I have read here.
You are only a sad and conservatives bunch of mongers who came to this beautiful country only to do what it is not allowed for you to do in your "wonderful" and "free" country, that is, to fuck pretty girls at a very low cost. You waste your dollars in Madaho's and Hippo and don't know a shit where the real hot and inexpensive places are.
All local forums are filled with information about these, but you ignore them because you are so proud and arrogant but so stupid that very few of you can read spanish.
You live isolated in this country like a bunch of old faggots in a bus tour through the 3er World.
But in spite of that you pretend to know the place, to dissect its politic its history and its economy like you were living here fifty years, travelled all the country, mixed with all social strata.
Come on, your are ridiculous.
Keep on mongering and wasting your dollars like the sad people you are, and do not try to talk about what you do not know.
I am a dutchman, and very proud of being so.
Not by chance american people is considered the scourge of humanity by three cuarters of the world nowadays.[/QUOTE]
I can appreciate the spirit of this post but find it interesting how people can't help practice what they preach. Fernando22, how is it you and your "Argies" think you understand what the US needs from a healthcare perspective? Your whole post implies that without submersing ourselves into the "Argie" country we can not truly appreciate their perspective! A valid point. But, then you turn around and preach to US citizens that some of our opinons on US healthcare are ridiculous. How can you even pretend to have the knowledge to understand the US healthcare system? I was in the Insurance business in the US for many years and still don't understand the intricacies of how it works enough to propose an acceptable model to fix it. Most of the debate is not about whether we need to improve our healthcare system but HOW to improve our healthcare system. A healthy debate if you ask me. The healthcare system is almost 20% of the US GDP. This is not something I want to see "corrected" in a half assed manner in order to garner political points with an electorate. Would the Argies accept some sort of drastic change to their agricultural and meat producing market place that would jeapordize their economy and many livelihoods? Doubtful. Your point is well taken, isolationists rarely have the best perspective on what is truly going on around them. Ironicly, that also means the "Argies" are really in no position to appreciate the complexities of changing healthcare policies within the US.
As for HIV and Global Warming. Why do you think I don't wear a rubber. It's too damn hot in here;-) (That's a joke, I take both of these things very seriously)
Sysco.
PS - Not bad for a 3rd post huh!
[QUOTE=Fernando22]Fellows, I do not know what is the point of this thread, but no argies enter this forum any more.
I do not know if even expats enter here any more.
And with that you have missed am essential source of information about girls and privados. And night clubs.
If you have been more smart you would have proceed like the italian forum or like the french forum or like the german forum, try to mix with the local people here and get belangrijk information.
But instead you isolated yourselves, and save one or two posts a day no one real valuable information about mongering in Buenos Aires is posted in this forum.
You been so wrong in so many appreciations about politics and economy and argentine and worldwide living that no one expect any true appreciation about what is happening here or in the united states any more. I read astonishing informations here like HIV is harmless, global warning a fraud, Obamas health reform unnecesarie and other idiotic things even argies fall down with laughter werever I comment what I have read here.
You are only a sad and conservatives bunch of mongers who came to this beautiful country only to do what it is not allowed for you to do in your "wonderful" and "free" country, that is, to fuck pretty girls at a very low cost. You waste your dollars in Madaho's and Hippo and don't know a shit where the real hot and inexpensive places are.
All local forums are filled with information about these, but you ignore them because you are so proud and arrogant but so stupid that very few of you can read spanish.
You live isolated in this country like a bunch of old faggots in a bus tour through the 3er World.
But in spite of that you pretend to know the place, to dissect its politic its history and its economy like you were living here fifty years, travelled all the country, mixed with all social strata.
Come on, your are ridiculous.
Keep on mongering and wasting your dollars like the sad people you are, and do not try to talk about what you do not know.
I am a dutchman, and very proud of being so.
Not by chance american people is considered the scourge of humanity by three cuarters of the world nowadays.[/QUOTE]
At least the people that make these useless threads actually have been or are in Argentina, have experienced some of what it has to offer, and I would doubt that anybody like Fernando can make any comments on the US or any other place in NA on the basis of anything EXCEPT what they hear or see in the news. From what I have experienced in Argentina over the last 3 years I think there could be quite a bit "lost in translation". Every day I am in Argentina I am convinced that there is more than the language that I cannot make sense of and fully explains the riches to rags transformation of Argentina in pretty much record historical time.
I am currently in Corrientes and there is a prime example here (some of us actually do travel around the rest of the country) There is some argentine olympic athlete of some note who I have never heard of before and to honor him the Government of Argentina has set up about a 100' ski jump on the main river walk. This set up is from Spain and it is costing 2 million p / day. In typical Argentine fashion it has taken 2wks to set up, it is quite a bit warmer here than BA so you can imagine the amount of ice required (they probably are importing this from Spain as well - you can draw many obvious conclusions as to what kind of corruption was involved in setting up this contract) I still have not seen anything happen on this jump. This is about as stupid as organizing a outdoor beach party with real palm trees in Canada in the middle of winter to celebrate one of the country's only olympic medals in trampolining and last time I checked the goverment there is not doing that.
The only reason I am even on the computer right now, wasting part of a beautiful day, putting this note up is that I am waiting for Argentine fishing partner to get his ass over here as he is 3hrs late and we literally reconfirmed the time of the trip not even 8hrs ago in the bar where we entertained ourselves last night. Toymann has coined the perfect phrase for Argentina as "why do today what you can put off until tomorrow" and this has many applications to all parts of Argentine society. I still love parts of what Argentina has to offer, but the hypocrisy of an Argentine person making derogatory comments about what is wrong in the US or at least 80% of other countries in the world is staggering.
[QUOTE=Fernando22]Not by chance american people is considered the scourge of humanity by three cuarters of the world nowadays.[/QUOTE][blue]Guys,
Why do you even bother to respond to idiots like this?
Anyway, unlike my competitor's forum, I don't permit people to use my forum to openly bash my country, so I will be deleting Fernando22's Eurotrash comments within 24 hours, and I'm only waiting that long out of respect for the guys who did respond to this moron.
In the mean time, please refrain from responding to his drivel.
Thanks,
Jackson
==================================================
For the record, I am [u]NOT[/u] a Republican, and I am [u]NOT[/u] a conservative.
- I am [u]against[/u] the death penalty.
- I am [u]against[/u] [u]any[/u] government support of religious organizations.
- I am [u]for[/u] the legalization of recreational drugs.
- I am [u]for[/u] the legalization of commercial sex.
- I am [u]for[/u] a woman's right to choose.
- I am [u]for[/u] comprehensive sex education.
- I am [u]for[/u] a foreign guest worker program.
- I am [u]for[/u] a universal flat tax on [u]EVERYONE'S[/u] income.
- I am [u]for[/u] health [u]INSURANCE[/u] reform.
- I am [u]for[/u] health [u]JUSTICE[/u] reform.
I am a member of the Libertian Party, registered as an Independent.[/blue]
[QUOTE=Jackson][blue]Guys,
Why do you even bother to respond to idiots like this?
Anyway, unlike my competitor's forum, I don't permit people to use my forum to openly bash my country, so I will be deleting Fernando22's Eurotrash comments within 24 hours, and I'm only waiting that long out of respect for the guys who did respond to this moron.
In the mean time, please refrain from responding to his drivel.
Thanks,
Jackson[/blue][/QUOTE]Fair enough, but by the same token should you not also delete posts which bash Argentina. Argentina has many faults, but this forum is supposed to be about P4P and associated topics (apartments, food, fishing etc) and not about politics. I agree with Fernando on at least one thing, that allowing ill-informed Argie bashing posts probably does deter Argentinian contributors to this forum and thus deprives us of some useful local experiences and information about the P4p scene.
Lysander
[QUOTE=Fernando22]Fellows, I do not know what is the point of this thread, but no argies enter this forum any more.
I do not know if even expats enter here any more.
And with that you have missed am essential source of information about girls and privados. And night clubs.
If you have been more smart you would have proceed like the italian forum or like the french forum or like the german forum, try to mix with the local people here and get belangrijk information.
But instead you isolated yourselves, and save one or two posts a day no one real valuable information about mongering in Buenos Aires is posted in this forum.
You been so wrong in so many appreciations about politics and economy and argentine and worldwide living that no one expect any true appreciation about what is happening here or in the united states any more. I read astonishing informations here like HIV is harmless, global warning a fraud, Obamas health reform unnecesarie and other idiotic things even argies fall down with laughter werever I comment what I have read here.
(...)
All local forums are filled with information about these, but you ignore them because you are so proud and arrogant but so stupid that very few of you can read spanish.
You live isolated in this country like a bunch of old faggots in a bus tour through the 3er World.
But in spite of that you pretend to know the place, to dissect its politic its history and its economy like you were living here fifty years, travelled all the country, mixed with all social strata.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Jackson][blue]Why do you even bother to respond to idiots like this?[/blue][/QUOTE]What's the idiot point here? I don't see it.
[QUOTE=Lysander]Fair enough, but by the same token should you not also delete posts which bash Argentina. Argentina has many faults, but this forum is supposed to be about P4P and associated topics (apartments, food, fishing etc) and not about politics. I agree with Fernando on at least one thing, that allowing ill-informed Argie bashing posts probably does deter Argentinian contributors to this forum and thus deprives us of some useful local experiences and information about the P4p scene.
Lysander[/QUOTE]Agree 100%.
If smartness is getting the best profit of environment and the place you're living, looks like some members of this forum are enclosed into a cellar in the Middle Ages. As Fernando pointed out, Rocky's or El Queso perspective towards SIDA or Global Warming, or El Alamo's approach to Unions correspond better to a Neanderthal environment than to a science and humanist society. I always thought some of you guys had been inmensely lucky to been born in a developped country, if not you probably be draggin a cart along the streets of a Third World city.
Contrary on what many of you may think, I had great respect for the United States. Some of the writers I admire most are americans, I like very much its cinema. I think it's a great country, with great ideals spoiled in the last times by an irrational desire for money. An ambition out of proportion that submerge a lot of good qualities they have.
This forum is not the better example of culture, I know.
But at least I hope may be a good source of information (if for once you cease to confront with the ones who give hosting to you, then, as Fernando and Lysander rightly point out, some Argentines may want to share some valuable datum with you), and also a source of free expresion like it was until now.
Don't spoil it banning a member just because he wrote something you don't like.
[QUOTE=Julio]Don't spoil it banning a member just because he wrote something you don't like.[/QUOTE]Julio,
1. Fernando22 in [u]NOT[/u] an Argentino, he's European.
2. Spoil what? According to Fernando22, [url=http://my.statcounter.com/project/standard/stats.php?project_id=1856129&guest=1]nobody[/url] "enters this forum" anymore anyway, including the 95 people that are signed on right now.
[quote=Julio]I always thought some of you guys had been inmensely lucky to been born in a developped country, if not you probably be draggin a cart along the streets of a Third World city.[/quote]3. But that's the great thing about America! The fact is that we've built a country wherein even the less productive of us can still achieve a good standard of living, as opposed to many other countries (like Argentina), where an appalling lack of opportunity results in a situation where very few of it's citizens can advance themselves economically. And they think we should follow their model?
Do you get this? Because many people don't, including every socialist I've ever met.
4. El Alamo is entirely accurate in his observations of the unions in Argentina, who are the country's biggest hindrance to growth with their mindset against allowing Argentina to develop a dynamic labor market to compete in the 21st century. The fact is that the unions have created an environment wherein a relatively small number of people have relatively good, well protected jobs at the expense of the majority who have no jobs. How very "European" of them.
Thanks,
Jackson
[QUOTE=Lysander]Fair enough, but by the same token should you not also delete posts which bash Argentina. Argentina has many faults, but this forum is supposed to be about P4P and associated topics (apartments, food, fishing etc) and not about politics. I agree with Fernando on at least one thing, that allowing ill-informed Argie bashing posts probably does deter Argentinian contributors to this forum and thus deprives us of some useful local experiences and information about the P4p scene.
Lysander[/QUOTE]I wouldn't permit anything as vile and as inaccurate as this to be said about the Argentinos either: [quote=Fernando22]Not by chance american people is considered the scourge of humanity by three cuarters of the world nowadays.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Jackson]I wouldn't permit anything as vile and as inaccurate as this to be said about the Argentinos either:[/QUOTE]I am not the greatest admirer of Argentinos, in or out of Argentina. Their economic situation is self-inflicted, on-going and seems to be insoluble. So it is a bit difficult to tell the verifyable truth without being negative. Their personal lack of ethics are the stuff of legend and in general, this naturally extends into their business, politics and religious life. So I support Jackson in not allowing vile inaccuracies to be posted about Argentinos. Hell, I think it should be extended and include pleasant inaccuracies to be wiped from the forum as well. I read more bullshit that seeks to cast the Argentinos in a good light than what is posted that denigrates them.
Argento
[QUOTE=Argento]Their personal lack of ethics are the stuff of legend and in general,[/QUOTE]Please, don't include me on this. According to my own experience, lack of ethics is to be found everywhere in the world and expresses itself in different forms. Please, think it twice before making unfare generalizations.
[QUOTE=TejanoLibre]I was talking to a friend of "ours" the other night and we were wondering if there was another example of a country that literally dropped from first world status to third world satus?
Rags to riches is eazy; but it seems that Argentina went from riches to rags![/QUOTE]My vision on this is that Argentina never was a first world country. The GNP per capita alone is not a good measure for deciding that. At the beginning of the XXth century, Argentina was effectively part of Commonwealth, providing beef for the UK. The structure of the society was similar to that of the South in the US before the Civil War (no industry, agriculture and food based economy) In my opinion, no developed society can arise under those conditions.
Industralization started late, basically during the first goverment of Peron in 1945. This basic industry was intended for internal comsumption and not for exporting. Anyway, that basic industry got promoted during the late 50's and early 60's (Frondizi was the president that pushed the most for heavy industralization). Among those local industries was the development of nuclear energy following a plan of slow breeding reactors (not useful for nuclear weapons).
During the late 60 's local brands of cars were produced (Rastrojero, Torino) That development went on until 1976, when the military took power. The most important issue was the changing of the economic profile of Argentina, forcing it to go back to its early role of food-producing country with no industry. I've seen hundreds of small, family type and larger, industries closing down between 1976 and 1978. To make a long story short, that plan was successful, and Argentina got de-industrialized. This change was welcomed by several economic actors that got greatly benefited from it (e.g. finance, banks, cattle owners), and got the middle class as the great looser, because its wealth was tied to the local industry that employed a large number of people. Similar changes happened in other countries at the same time (late 70's), e.g., in Turkey. Brazil never went into this change, and kept with a slow but steady industralization.
Today in Argentina this debate is still opened: will this country follow the path of Brazil or that of Paraguay (no industry whatsoever, everything is imported). And I would like to add that the composition of the society in 1975 had 80 % of middle class people, employed (mainly by the industry) workers and professionals, by far the largest of Latin America, with good free public health and education systems. Most of the middle class at the time had a tendendy to cultivate cultural values as well, and for that reason one can find today so many used books and long play stores. Moreover, Argentina has gotten 5 Nobel Prize winners, 3 of them in Sciences, and basically two that carried their work locally.
That's my two cents on this.
[quote]Inflexible labor regulations continue to hinder employment creation and productivity growth. The non-salary cost of employing a worker is high, and dismissing a redundant employee can be costly.[/QUOTE][url]http://www.heritage.org/index/country/argentina[/url]
There are probably few political issues that El Alamo / Jackson and I agree on, but this Union thing in Argentina is one. My sweet thang does the salaries for a few enterprises and the so called benefits / perks workers receive is mind boggling for me. Workers receive extra pay if they have children. Think it is about 200 peso a month for each kid. Another perk, an extra month's pay every six months. Fourteen months pay for twelve months work. There is also mandatory severance pay, one month's salary for each year worked. And trying to fire an employee is like going through a divorce in the USA. Courts, lawyers are all involved. Termination does not happen. Do not know how anyone can do business in Argentina. It is entirely the Argentine's business how they wish to run their country, but damn guys, you are shooting yourselves in the foot.
It is crazy. Cablevision needed to change my cable box. I had to make an appointment one month in advance to get this done. Cablevision told me they could not do it any sooner because of the workload. The day of the appointment, three guys show up. One guy carrying the new box, one guy to change the plugs and the other guy carried the old box out. Fuck me. I am still scratching my ass on that event. All you can do is laugh.
[QUOTE=Damman][url]http://www.heritage.org/index/country/argentina[/url]
Workers receive extra pay if they have children. Think it is about 200 peso a month for each kid. Another perk, an extra month's pay every six months. Fourteen months pay for twelve months work. There is also mandatory severance pay, one month's salary for each year worked. And trying to fire an employee is like going through a divorce in the USA. [/QUOTE]Had all this stuff come up in a couple of M & A transactions here. The labor audit is one of the key due diligence areas. If the seller improperly severed some worker years ago, no doubt that worker will be looking for the new owner to pay him. Even if all past layoffs were done properly, when news of the deal gets out, the line starts forming. If you inherit an employee who has been with the company for 12 years, you must account for paying him one year in severance if and when that occurs.
If you own an argie biz that you'd like to sell to an international buyer, you need to groom your headcount on your own, prior to putting it up for sale, in order to reduce some of the inevitable overhang that employment issues will cause.
You guys have to understand where Fernando22 is coming from. He's not really talking to the majority of the members of this forum. He's actually just talking to (yelling at) the minority yet very vocal right wing / tea party members of this forum. While small, they are a belligerent group, ready to yell from their luxury condo apartments in Recoleta about just how stupid the Argentinians really are. Although no one on the street would hear them, because all Americans live in the penthouse. This particular topic was started just to discuss just how shitty Argentina has become (riches to rags---really? So don't be surprised when an actual Argentinian comes to defend his country. Yes, he's coming from a leftist POV, and yes he doesn't actually have much ammunition to work with (besides the women and the architecture) But you still have to respect a man who is trying to verbally defend his countries honor. Especially when it's from a bunch of guys whos' only reason for going there is to fuck the women.
And lets face it, those rich tea partiers are comically extreme on so many ways. They're the right wing version of loud angry lesbian feminazis. Too extreme to even try negotiating with. And just like the mannish lesbos, if someone have the gaul to actually disagree with them, you can see the pure anger building up in them in their eyes. (As a NYC Democrat, I fucking hate what the mannish lesbians are doing to Manhattan politics. At least you can actually negotiate and joke around with the gay guys. The right wingers on this forum are idiological to the extreme, even when the particulars of a situation are to everyones benefit (health care reform--bail out package)
Except when it comes to going to another country to pay to fuck women. Then "life is full of moral uncertainties."
P. S. Jackson, it's great to see that you are a libertarian, theoretically, I would be one too. Unfortunately, I have discovered that within the last few years in America, in many rural states, the Libertarian party has been infiltrated with hardcore racist, militia movement characters. Many of who are bent on military revolution (and are incidentally great friends with the tea party movement) Being that I'm black, I understandably cannot join such a crowd. Just a warning, that when you say you're a Libertarian now, this is a vision that goes through many peoples heads
If the Argentinan economic system wasn't so corrupt and if Kirchner wasn't such a stupid *****, Argentinas exchange rate would be around the same as Brazils. And as a monger, I don't really want that.
After all, there's a reason that you come to Argentina and not Chile or the sex mecca that is Brazil.
Yes, like a shoe factory owner, I look for the countries with favorable exchange rates, and a good amount of cheap, exploitable local "talent".
Brazil has the talent en masse, but the exchange rate is horrible. Currently 1. 78=$1
Most of Chiles "talented" sex workers are from other contries. That's because they get paid a lot more in chile than in any other S. American country.
Only Argentina has the favorable exchange rate, and a great pool of 22yr olds who are willing to suck and swallow.
This is directly because of the corrupt politicians and bad populist policies, that you speak so badly of. Just try going to Sweden and getting a smoking hot 22yr old blondie to suck and fuck you for $85-$100 an hour.
So you see, even YOU can support left wing policies. I'm just waiting for Kirchner to do something else stupid so that the exchange will go up to 4. 50 =$1.
[QUOTE=Tyrell]You guys have to understand where Fernando22 is coming from. He's not really talking to the majority of the members of this forum. He's actually just talking to (yelling at) the minority yet very vocal right wing / tea party members of this forum. While small, they are a belligerent group, ready to yell from their luxury condo apartments in Recoleta about just how stupid the Argentinians really are. Although no one on the street would hear them, because all Americans live in the penthouse. This particular topic was started just to discuss just how shitty Argentina has become (riches to rags---really? So don't be surprised when an actual Argentinian comes to defend his country. Yes, he's coming from a leftist POV, and yes he doesn't actually have much ammunition to work with (besides the women and the architecture) But you still have to respect a man who is trying to verbally defend his countries honor. Especially when it's from a bunch of guys whos' only reason for going there is to fuck the women.
And lets face it, those rich tea partiers are comically extreme on so many ways. They're the right wing version of loud angry lesbian feminazis. Too extreme to even try negotiating with. And just like the mannish lesbos, if someone have the gaul to actually disagree with them, you can see the pure anger building up in them in their eyes. (As a NYC Democrat, I fucking hate what the mannish lesbians are doing to Manhattan politics. At least you can actually negotiate and joke around with the gay guys. The right wingers on this forum are idiological to the extreme, even when the particulars of a situation are to everyones benefit (health care reform--bail out package)
Except when it comes to going to another country to pay to fuck women. Then "life is full of moral uncertainties."[/QUOTE]Fernando22 was just repeating the same tired diatribe, which amounts to this: The world's losers are jealous of the world's winners, and thus they salivate over the prospects of banding together and taking by government fiat that which they could not earn themselves in a competitive environment.
No threat really, because the losers [u]are[/u] losers and thus generally incapable of organizing to a level necessary to represent any credible threat to the winners. However, the cool thing about losers is that if any of them actually get off their asses and begin producing their own wealth, then they too become winners and begin to see their former colleagues for what they really are: Losers.
Jackson
[QUOTE=Jackson]Fernando22 was just repeating the same tired diatribe, which amounts to this: The world's losers are jealous of the world's winners, and thus they salivate over the prospects of banding together and taking by government fiat that which they could not earn themselves in a competitive environment.
No threat really, because the losers [u]are[/u] losers and thus generally incapable of organizing to a level necessary to represent any credible threat to the winners. However, the cool thing about losers is that if any of them actually get off their asses and begin producing their own wealth, then they too become winners and begin to see their former colleagues for what they really are: Losers.
Jackson[/QUOTE]I respectfully disagree with this philosophy. Who is the winner: somebody who dominates other people? Who is the looser? Somebody who doesn't care what other people do or think? Was Mozart a looser (he died alone and in total povertry) Was Rockefeller a winner? Is power, or money, or domination the unique value accepted by everybody that gives sense and justifies a life? Many other points of view are equally acceptable about reality and a possible positive action would be to confront these in a civilized manner. By accepting this philosophy as the unique that is acceptable, there would a risk (or intention) of justifying domination: "some people are poor because they don't work hard, or are not fit enough to survive in the natural scenario of Darwinian competition". This view, common in some societies but not in others, is a way of avoiding discussing the moral aspects that Goethe exposed as soon as freedom became a reality in Europe in his Dr. Faust. My own phylosophy is to live and let people live without my judment. The root of many of these subjects, in my opinion too important to be avoided of an continous discussion, are to be found in the reason for the Reformation, which in my view is the founding stone of capitalism.
[QUOTE=Tyrell]If the Argentinan economic system wasn't so corrupt and if Kirchner wasn't such a stupid *****, Argentinas exchange rate would be around the same as Brazils. And as a monger, I don't really want that.
After all, there's a reason that you come to Argentina and not Chile or the sex mecca that is Brazil.
Yes, like a shoe factory owner, I look for the countries with favorable exchange rates, and a good amount of cheap, exploitable local "talent".
Brazil has the talent en masse, but the exchange rate is horrible. Currently 1. 78=$1
Most of Chiles "talented" sex workers are from other contries. That's because they get paid a lot more in chile than in any other S. American country.
Only Argentina has the favorable exchange rate, and a great pool of 22yr olds who are willing to suck and swallow.
This is directly because of the corrupt politicians and bad populist policies, that you speak so badly of. Just try going to Sweden and getting a smoking hot 22yr old blondie to suck and fuck you for $85-$100 an hour.
So you see, even YOU can support left wing policies. I'm just waiting for Kirchner to do something else stupid so that the exchange will go up to 4. 50 =$1.[/QUOTE]This is really well said, by a newbie contributor.
Apart from this, I'm afraid this thread had deteriorated considerably, and I wouldn't mind seeing it die. It started as a question of world history. It has degenerated into a thumbs up or thumbs down form on the Argentine economy, or the Argentine psyche in general, and I'm not loving this trend.
BTG