Give me your money! What would you do?

I was sitting down at a park tonight trying to enjoy the setting / environment, not much sun, a bit windy, beautiful people (guys and gals) walking around. Just trying to relax you know. Then after about 15 minutes this young fellow (early 20s I'd say) walks up to me. Extends his hand for a shake and a pound. Okay it seems like he's being friendly now, but no. I'm wrong it was just a cover up, so the people in the park doesn't notice what he is ABOUT to do!

Now I don't really understand spanish but I caught a couple of words here and there and could make out what he said. He was basically asking me for some money. First for some money to [insert verb]. Then I told him,"Lo siento, no entiendo". Basically telling him I don't understand what the hell he is saying. Then he asks me if I can give him some money for food. At this point, I am like "Why me." well obviously because I look like a foreigner! I'm slim, dress well like a foreigner so I am pretty sure I am an easy target. At this point I know he's looking for money, and I play it off by pretending not to understand him and I pointed to some restaurant across the food and said "si, comida es bien". Then he asks me again in a different phrase and I told him "no tengo nada". Please note that while I was speaking to him the whole time I had a smile and laughed once in a while to play it cool. I didn't want to get aggressive since I didn't want to start anything, was just trying to enjoy my day, enjoy the weather, and enjoy the moment at that time. I am pretty sure it did not take him too long when he approached me to notice that my bag was strapped onto my waist, so he would not have been able to take it and run unless he takes me with him!

After he hears me say "no tengo nada", he gives me this aggressive look like he wants to get into a fight, then proceeds to look (scan) down to my bag that was next to me and scan back up to my face and into my eyes. In my mind I was thinking: *Oh shit, someone's getting mad because he's not getting his lunch money from me* Then I tried to take out his fire by playing it cool again. I chuckled & shrugged (the I don't know shrug with my hands semi extended and opened) I said "si, nada". He continues to grill into my eyes, and looks around me to see if there is anything valuable. Shortly after (1minute) he gives up. He extends his hand to give me a shake and a pound and walks away.

Phewww! Good thing I was at a park and there were people around me. I have got to say that he did a good job by pretending like he was my friend with the shake and pound and then proceeding to ask me for some money and giving me a mean grill to scare me into it. There were a lot of other options / choices I could have made throughout this process, but as I mentioned before I didn't want to start anything, was just trying to enjoy my day, enjoy the weather, and enjoy the moment at that time.

This guy was shorter than me, I'd say 5' 5' or 5' 6', though he was a bit wide (I'm slim).

Hypothetical scenarios: If we got into a dirty fight, I would probably miss a few punches and end up biting him haha! But if he took out a knife at a public park with people around, I would just probably kick him away and cause a seen so people around can see.

1) What would you have done?

2) If the guy was more provoking and became physically pushy would you have land the punch first or let them land the punch first?

3) Additional thoughts?

A good close in move that does not attract much attention is to bring your foot down his shin bone and then stomp on his foot. Then you can move away quickly. Whether you can do that sitting down kind of depends. Sitting down, a good escape move, if the person is close enough, is to hook the back of their leg while you stand up and ram the heel of your hand under their chin. They fall hard that way. Use the left leg and right arm or vice versa because you stay balanced that way.

[QUOTE=LateNightExcur; 429896]I was sitting down at a park tonight trying to enjoy the setting / environment, not much sun, a bit windy, beautiful people (guys and gals) walking around. Just trying to relax you know. Then after about 15 minutes this young fellow (early 20s I'd say) walks up to me. Extends his hand for a shake and a pound. Okay it seems like he's being friendly now, but no. I'm wrong it was just a cover up, so the people in the park doesn't notice what he is ABOUT to do!

Now I don't really understand spanish but I caught a couple of words here and there and could make out what he said. He was basically asking me for some money. First for some money to [insert verb]. Then I told him,"Lo siento, no entiendo". Basically telling him I don't understand what the hell he is saying. Then he asks me if I can give him some money for food. At this point, I am like "Why me." well obviously because I look like a foreigner! I'm slim, dress well like a foreigner so I am pretty sure I am an easy target. At this point I know he's looking for money, and I play it off by pretending not to understand him and I pointed to some restaurant across the food and said "si, comida es bien". Then he asks me again in a different phrase and I told him "no tengo nada". Please note that while I was speaking to him the whole time I had a smile and laughed once in a while to play it cool. I didn't want to get aggressive since I didn't want to start anything, was just trying to enjoy my day, enjoy the weather, and enjoy the moment at that time. I am pretty sure it did not take him too long when he approached me to notice that my bag was strapped onto my waist, so he would not have been able to take it and run unless he takes me with him!

After he hears me say "no tengo nada", he gives me this aggressive look like he wants to get into a fight, then proceeds to look (scan) down to my bag that was next to me and scan back up to my face and into my eyes. In my mind I was thinking: *Oh shit, someone's getting mad because he's not getting his lunch money from me* Then I tried to take out his fire by playing it cool again. I chuckled & shrugged (the I don't know shrug with my hands semi extended and opened) I said "si, nada". He continues to grill into my eyes, and looks around me to see if there is anything valuable. Shortly after (1minute) he gives up. He extends his hand to give me a shake and a pound and walks away.

[url]Phewww[/url]

! Good thing I was at a park and there were people around me. I have got to say that he did a good job by pretending like he was my friend with the shake and pound and then proceeding to ask me for some money and giving me a mean grill to scare me into it. There were a lot of other options / choices I could have made throughout this process, but as I mentioned before I didn't want to start anything, was just trying to enjoy my day, enjoy the weather, and enjoy the moment at that time.

This guy was shorter than me, I'd say 5' 5' or 5' 6', though he was a bit wide (I'm slim).

Hypothetical scenarios: If we got into a dirty fight, I would probably miss a few punches and end up biting him haha! But if he took out a knife at a public park with people around, I would just probably kick him away and cause a seen so people around can see.

1) What would you have done?

2) If the guy was more provoking and became physically pushy would you have land the punch first or let them land the punch first?

3) Additional thoughts?[/QUOTE]You did exactly the right thing. You defused the situation quite cleverly with no complications. Had you ended up in a fight you never know how it is going to end. There are always idiots that will defend these crooks and at the least you would have spent a day in jail.

Had the guy pulled out a knife the situation would have been different but it's unlikely (though not impossible) in such a public place.

[QUOTE=LateNightExcur; 429896]"Why me." well obviously because I look like a foreigner! I'm slim, dress well like a foreigner so [b]I am pretty sure I am an easy target. [/b] At this point I know he's looking for money, and I play it off by pretending not to understand him and I pointed to some restaurant across the food and said "si, comida es bien". Then he asks me again in a different phrase and I told him "no tengo nada". Please note that while I was speaking to him the whole time [b]I had a smile and laughed once in a while to play it cool. [/b]

[QUOTE]Unless there is a reason you can't, I say dress and act like a mugger. If you don't want to go to the same extreme I do, just don't look like low hanging fruit. Also NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER be friendly and inviting to people you don't know in parks after dark or late at night. Don't stare them down but don't look away. Aqua please don't take offence but most Argentines I've had these kind of dealings with fold at once when they see their tactics of intimidation aren't working and violence is about to happen.

That all being said, if your uncomfortable hurting somebody badly enough to get away then give up your shit as long as they aren't trying to relocate you. If they are trying to control your location, or move you to another location, never under any circumstances submit.

I don't think I would have been friendly with the guy, or shook his hand. I probably would have looked him back with a straight face, without saying anything, letting him see there was no way he was going to engage me. If he made a move I would simply run off, pushing him off if necessary. I can accelerate fast, and I doubt some robber is going to race after you in full public view. I had a situation like this in Caracas, when two young guys approached me in a public place. A physical altercation would always be a last resort.

[QUOTE=Esten;429928]I don't think I would have been friendly with the guy, or shook his hand. I probably would have looked him back with a straight face, without saying anything, letting him see there was no way he was going to engage me. If he made a move I would simply run off, pushing him off if necessary. I can accelerate fast, and I doubt some robber is going to race after you in full public view. I had a situation like this in Caracas, when two young guys approached me in a public place. A physical altercation would always be a last resort.[/QUOTE]@Esten, you gave the most intelligent and practical advise amongst all.

-I show you three different "adventures" (to be honest, had a lot more) :

First: In Constitucion-hardcore. 4.30am I was looking for the girl of my life.

Found her and startet talking. Two new "friends" aproached my shoulders, showing me their knifes.

Grabbed in my backpocket and handled them over shitty Ps. 70- and went on. Everybody happy. Aside I wore a faked CORUM-watch and had couple of USD inside at that time.

Speak and understand spanish or don't ever feel save.

Second: Was sitting (absolutely en pedos) in my personal-5. AM-train to go back home. Train already full of workers going to start theit job in province.

A joung guy, fine haircut, well dressed and good shoes set up in front of mine and asked for money.

Told him he got the wrong guy and told him it was obvious, that he has no emergencies.

Insisted."I will rob you now!" "I am a thief!" "Gimme what you have!!!"

So I hardened and tightened my voice a little to tell him, in case, he would have a weapon, I lived my life already and he may kill me within the next 5 seconds. Noprob.

If he would be to slow, as an "Ex-Wehrmacht-Sargent" I will kill him after that flow of time. (I think, we are allowed to lie in weird situations, like that, aren´t we?)

That moment. 4 other chics came in, fearfully, apologized several times, that the boy has molested me and that he really did not meen me. And they forced him, to get off. I asked them if I owed something."No señor, era una equivocación , disculpe la molestia, por favor!"

Obviously, it has been a "fireprobe" to be a member of a gang, that failed. Poor guy, he could have endet seriously hurt in an hospital publico.

Speak and understand spanish or don't ever feel save.

Third: Crossing 9 de Julio in the afternoon close to the ugliest building there with overpriced caricaturas de Evita on both sides. Stopped at red light and heard from besides (lowest "villa"-level)"señor, no me tenes monedas pa' comer?"

Saw two wornout pairs of shoes at my side, did not lift my eyes, to see more.

A third quy p0assed my back, touching "by ocasion" to check, if I had money in one of my bolsitas. At that time an Argie, behind me shoutetd "Atención, señor!"

As I was well trained at that moment, took a backstep, left my fists, as my personal trainer tought me in Muay Thay, and answered."Siiiiiii. Si ustedes quieren bailar, bailamos ahora!"

We crossed the street, the boys in respectfull distances and reaching the other side, I gave a soundfull and hard chok-dee and a hard sidekick to the post of the redlight. They understood, that this will really hurt and got their way.

Speak and understand spanish or don't ever feel save.

In ten years I have had three attempts to rob me, and one successful robbery on my house. The first time back in 2003 or so, a young kid with a knife hits me up for my shopping bags (I was out Christmas shopping). After I gave him around six bags of different sizes he was so busy looking through them that he was no longer paying attention to me and his knife and both hands were occupied. I figure what the hell. I promptly kicked him in the balls. As he is lieing on the ground I continue to kick the shit out of him. I am guessing my adrenalin is flowing or whatever. A long story short is that afterwards I could barely walk. Messed up my foot bad. Since then I have been wearing steel toe sneakers / sport shoes. The second attacker ran after I refused him and came towards him. The third recieved the full impact of the steel toes and he will never look the same. Of course every encounter is different. Its obvious that your life is worth more then dollars or pesos, but then again, here they might just kill you anyway even if you give them everything!

Vengence is a dish best served cold.

Predators like to know the area they hunt. This applies to all predators throughout the animal kingdom. I learned a long time ago that you never know from the size or attitude of a person what they have in their pockets or how agressive or deadly they can be. Therefore, unless your life is at immediate risk, in which case you should dispatch the predator immediately, it is typically better to play the fear card and give them what they want, but mark them and memorize them. I assure you they will return to the same corner within 3 days. They know the escape routes and feel comfortable. They likley know the police. The solution to most fights is knowing your strengths and weaknesses and the element of surprise and appropriate use of terrain is key. So if you can survive to fight another day then do so. This gives you time to assess,"Is it worth it, to go vigilante on the scum?" to get the alcohol out of your system (makes you feel tough but fight dumb) and to assure you have the high ground and the element of surprise if the battle is to occur. If it is, which is very rare to be honest, then it should be decisive and quick; typically taking no longer than one extra step along your path. If it takes longer than 5 seconds then you have already lost and just don't know it. Read The Art Of War.

So enough of the theoretical from years gone by. One important point to keep in mind. Don't carry bank or credit cards with you! You are a fool if you do. If they take your money they can spend it and don't need you along for the ride (bank card) or dead so you can't report it missing (bank card or credit card). You are far more likely to be killed if you carry plastic. If you do insist upon carrying plastic then put it in your underwear or a secret compartment. Most thugs don't want to feel your parts to see if you have a card.

Pete

I have lived in ba for 2 years and never been mugged or threatened. However I continue to take precautions as follows:

I never wear a watch or carry a camera.

I never carry credit or debit cards.

I use a very old wallet that only has cash in it, so easy to hand over if I get mugged.

I always keep a couple of hundred pesos emergency cash in a different pocket with my dni.

I never take my passport anywhere.

I keep mobile phone hidden and only use when neccessary.

When I am carrying lots of cash after visit to exchange dollars I put the cash in a Velcro ankle wallet.

I use radio taxis whenever possible and rarely walk alone after dark in quiet streets.

I'm not convinced that ba is less safe than any other major city from a statistical perspective, however there is no doubt that when crime happens here it is more likely to be mindlessly violent, eg the French photographer stabbed to death in front of the Malvinas war memorial at 8. 30 am on a Monday morning because he fought with the guy who grabbed his camera. And it is exponentially more likely to be violent if you put up a fight. Stay calm and give them what you have. I agree with an earlier comment however that if anyone attempts to move you to a different location or force you into a car for example then start screaming and get medieval on their asses pronto. Finally, remember that the advice given to special forces guys is always always try and walk and talk your way out of trouble first (you don't have the element of suprise and the outcome of violence can be very random!) and only when you think that your life is in danger then do whatever you can to take them down quickly. I spent 7 years in the uk parachute regiment and despite my in built macho desire to kick the shit out of some thieving goon, I'm cool with walking away unharmed and down a few pesos. I hope this helps.

[QUOTE=Peter Sideburn; 429959]Vengence is a dish best served cold.

Predators like to know the area they hunt. This applies to all predators throughout the animal kingdom. I learned a long time ago that you never know from the size or attitude of a person what they have in their pockets or how agressive or deadly they can be. Therefore, unless your life is at immediate risk, in which case you should dispatch the predator immediately, it is typically better to play the fear card and give them what they want, but mark them and memorize them. I assure you they will return to the same corner within 3 days. They know the escape routes and feel comfortable. They likley know the police. The solution to most fights is knowing your strengths and weaknesses and the element of surprise and appropriate use of terrain is key. So if you can survive to fight another day then do so. This gives you time to assess,"Is it worth it, to go vigilante on the scum?" to get the alcohol out of your system (makes you feel tough but fight dumb) and to assure you have the high ground and the element of surprise if the battle is to occur. If it is, which is very rare to be honest, then it should be decisive and quick; typically taking no longer than one extra step along your path. If it takes longer than 5 seconds then you have already lost and just don't know it. Read The Art Of War.

So enough of the theoretical from years gone by. One important point to keep in mind. Don't carry bank or credit cards with you! You are a fool if you do. If they take your money they can spend it and don't need you along for the ride (bank card) or dead so you can't report it missing (bank card or credit card). You are far more likely to be killed if you carry plastic. If you do insist upon carrying plastic then put it in your underwear or a secret compartment. Most thugs don't want to feel your parts to see if you have a card.

Pete[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Daddy Rulz;429902]That all being said, if your uncomfortable hurting somebody badly enough to get away then give up your shit as long as they aren't trying to relocate you. If they are trying to control your location, or move you to another location, never under any circumstances submit.[/QUOTE]Hurting someone I am okay with, but the question is whether or not it is the right decision. And the reason why it is hard to decide is because as Peter Sideburn mentioned you don't know how aggressive and deadly the predator can be. You also don't know where he has been and what he has experienced / been through which makes him potentially even more dangerous.

[QUOTE=Daddy Rulz;429902]Unless there is a reason you can't, I say dress and act like a mugger. If you don't want to go to the same extreme I do, just don't look like low hanging fruit. Also NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER be friendly and inviting to people you don't know in parks after dark or late at night. Don't stare them down but don't look away[/QUOTE]It's hard to be not friendly and welcoming when I'm used to it that way. Especially when he pretended and acted like a friend initially. I guess I didn't think quick enough. So if I don't stare them down and don't look away where should I look? Especially when they are scanning around looking for valuables.

[QUOTE=Aqualung;429901]There are always idiots that will defend these crooks and at the least you would have spent a day in jail.[/QUOTE]Yeah this is what I'm afraid of in addition to them pulling out a knife or a gun. It is so corrupt here in Argentina I can imagine this happening. After the robber robs you he may even split a share to the cop or pedestrian who helped him out.

This also brings up a great point. Because of this, I always contemplate whether it would be worth it to get physical just to protect whatever I have on me. Gladly, I never carry plastic anymore and always leave that at home. I only bring a couple hundred pesos at a time and hide a 100 peso bill in a secret spot just in case I do get robbed / mugged / etc I have money to get home.

Thanks for sharing the great insights guys, but what's the conclusion here?

First try to talk your way out of the situation. If that doesn't work and they get aggressive, hand over the stuff you have. Or if the situation becomes life threatening try to take the predator down. Or if they try to move you to another place, cause a scene and prevent it from happening.

Obviously it would be different in every scenario but this generalized idea is okay?

Also some of you make BA seem like it's very very dangerous, while I have never been pickpocketed, robbed, or mugged (robbery including beating up) before this is the impression you guys along with other locals I have met are giving me here. Some even say BA is more dangerous or is at least comparable to Bronx, NY or even Harlem, NY.

It seems like BA isn't a place to dress nice, drive a nice car, and live a luxurious life since crime is everywhere. I mean in NY for example, as long as you don't go to Harlem, Bronx, or even Jamaica you'll be relatively safe. You can dress nicely, walk around with nice headphones, use a smartphone out on the street, you get the idea. But here, everyone tells me to never take out my phone on the street, walk fast on the street, be extra extra extra careful at night (more than you would in other cities) , etc.

BA is such a beautiful city, but all these stories tarnish it's reputation. Gun and knife robbery, in house, etc.

Home Invasion :

The number 1 Sport in Argentina followed closely by Kidnapping.

So what do you do when you are rudely awakened by three fucking Indians with switchblades in your face? And to add insult to injury the weapons are yours!

And I thought that they were kind neighbors trying to rescue me from a fire or trying to invite me to an Asado.

"Where's the fucking money?" " I have no money!" "How'd you get the new flat-screen, smart Sony in the fucking box?" "It was a gift!" Where's the fucking money, Bip, Bap, Pow, Wam?" " I don't even work!"

"Is your name Ramiro?" " Yeah, nice to meet you!"

"Bip, Pow, Wow!" " Someone turned you in!"

"Who?" " Some more Pow, Wow!

Pillow case over my head, Hog Tied and Buns UP!

"Where's the Money?" " "I think if you steal everything including my dog's leash and the used vibrator you can come up with 35k."

"Don't move or I'll kill you; fuck it, I'm going to kill you anyway!"

Thank GOD I was so mellow from a full night of whisky, women and tranquilizers that I never felt affraid or concerned or even pissed off.

I was more pissed off at my attack dog than anything else, she just thought that they were playing!

Why? Because they had keys to my house or a simple credit card to open the unlocked door. Had they made noise the dog would have killed 3 fucking Indians!

Could this happen to you? Yes, you pick up a girl and you pass out and she calls her boyfriend to come and buttfuck you!

But this was about self-defense right?

If I had a gun under my pillow I could not have reached it, there were 10 knives in my house, I had a PitBull Killer in my bed and I live in a nice, small and quiet building but when they come they come!

Take Care,

TL.

I can get you a 46. Caliber 6 shot pistol tomorrow with zero I'd required!

[QUOTE=TejanoLibre; 430006]Home Invasion :

The number 1 Sport in Argentina followed closely by Kidnapping.

So what do you do when you are rudely awakened by three fucking Indians with switchblades in your face? And to add insult to injury the weapons are yours!

And I thought that they were kind neighbors trying to rescue me from a fire or trying to invite me to an Asado.

"Where's the fucking money?" " I have no money!" "How'd you get the new flat-screen, smart Sony in the fucking box?" "It was a gift!" Where's the fucking money, Bip, Bap, Pow, Wam?" " I don't even work!"

"Is your name Ramiro?" " Yeah, nice to meet you!"

"Bip, Pow, Wow!" " Someone turned you in!"

"Who?" " Some more Pow, Wow!

Pillow case over my head, Hog Tied and Buns UP!

"Where's the Money?" " "I think if you steal everything including my dog's leash and the used vibrator you can come up with 35k."

"Don't move or I'll kill you; fuck it, I'm going to kill you anyway!"

Thank GOD I was so mellow from a full night of whisky, women and tranquilizers that I never felt affraid or concerned or even pissed off.

I was more pissed off at my attack dog than anything else, she just thought that they were playing!

Why? Because they had keys to my house or a simple credit card to open the unlocked door. Had they made noise the dog would have killed 3 fucking Indians!

Could this happen to you? Yes, you pick up a girl and you pass out and she calls her boyfriend to come and buttfuck you!

But this was about self-defense right?

If I had a gun under my pillow I could not have reached it, there were 10 knives in my house, I had a PitBull Killer in my bed and I live in a nice, small and quiet building but when they come they come!

Take Care,

TL.

I can get you a 46. Caliber 6 shot pistol tomorrow with zero I'd required![/QUOTE]Stop giving copies of your apartment key to your street girls! Very simple solution dude. Asked and answered, you may thank me later. Toymann

I believe there is also an item known as a door chain and things known as deadbolts. These can be defeated but the process of defeating them is often noisy, giving one time to locate one's weapons of choice and even call emergency numbers. Hence the effectiveness would decline as the degree of sedation increased. We know that thieves are lazy almost by definition so if you have a good deadbolt installed chances are they will rob someone else. In general I go with the "someone else" theory which dovetails nearly exactly with Daddy's "dress and act like a mugger" theory. Daddy looks more like a mugger than I do so I try to look like a broke dick motherfucker and ordinarily they end up fucking with "someone else."

I did personally experience some fairly major cop problems when I fucked up a mugger in Colombia and my mistake was that I did it for the wrong reason, which was frustration from an earlier robbery. I certainly should have had the RIGHT to do what I did (but maybe legally did not, maybe) but the conditions were not right and I was unsubtle. I learned from this and a few months later when I caught a purse snatcher in Quito I still fucked his ass up but then I split right after. Let the victim be the witness.