Argentine Economy

[QUOTE=DonB;438262]For those who can think. What is the ultimate conclusion of the regulatory state?

Don.[/QUOTE]Is it what Rock Harders has accused us of promoting? Fascism and the economic ideology behind it, neo-corporatism?

[QUOTE=Tiny12;438261]You kind of changed the subject. Before you actually asserted "anyone who can even begin to compare the Obama administration with the policies of the Kirchners and / or what is happening in Argentina knows and understands less than nothing about Argentina.".

If you look at Forbes' index of best countries for business, the United States has slipped from 2nd in 2009, when Obama began his first term, to 14th in 2013. You may say that Forbes is biased, in favor of business, and you'd be right. As one who has worked with World Bank data and has been exposed to their promotion of corruption and rent-seeking, pseudo-capitalism in a third world country, I can tell you that they have their biases too. And I trust Forbes more on this topic.

What % of your time have you spent working in Argentina versus the USA since Obama became president? You're undoubtedly right that the political and economic situations are worse in Argentina. However, my experience as a person working and doing business in the USA is that the regulatory and tax burdens have become appreciably worse since Obama became president. I could give examples, but this post is long enough already.[/QUOTE]Use Forbes list if it suits you better; the USA is 14th and Argentina is 107th; still not even remotely comparable. If you want to make a legitimate comparison of a country that you don't want the USA to become you could use France, for example. It could be argued that the alleged movement in the USA toward "socialist" policies and regulations could cause the USA's economy to become stagnant and business unfriendly, which is how many people view France today. The United States and France are legitimately comparable for reasons so obvious I don't need to bother listing them here; The United States and Argentina are not.

[QUOTE=RockHarders;438266] If you want to make a legitimate comparison of a country that you don't want the USA to become you could use France, for example. It could be argued that the alleged movement in the USA toward "socialist" policies and regulations could cause the USA's economy to become stagnant and business unfriendly, which is how many people view France today. The United States and France are legitimately comparable for reasons so obvious I don't need to bother listing them here[/QUOTE] I agree with what you wrote above. We may not have an argument, except that you're trying to compare the United States and Argentina and I'm trying to compare the Kirchner's and Obama.

We rode a taxi to Florida today and the driver was listening to Kirchners speech. On the way back, I tried to get two taxi's to take us to our apartment on Rivadavia and Uriburu and they were both rude and said they could not take us. I know there was demonstrating at Congreso but that is four blocks from Uriburu and they could have gone all the way up Cordoba to Junin but both refused. Was she saying stuff against the US? These guys weren't friendly at all and was wondering if it was because we are Americans. We finally asked a driver to take us to Corrientes and Junin and when we got there asked him to continue on to Rivadavia and he said no way so we had to walk 6 blocks with my handicapped foot. Can some of you locals let us know what went on today? Thanks.

[QUOTE=Jkeys;438385]Can some of you locals let us know what went on today? Thanks.[/QUOTE]Christina gave her annual constitutionally mandated "State of the Union" speach before Congress today. Ave 9 de Julio was filled with the busses that transported her supporters to the Plaza de Mayo to demostrate on her behalf. As a consequence, many streets in and near Congreso were blocked by the police, and Ave 9 de Julio was a traffic jam, given that several hundred busses had parked in the traffic lanes.

Coincidentally, I was riding down Ave 9 de Julio in a taxi with a driver who kept turning the radio on and off waiting for her speach to end, all the while telling me that he couldn't stand to listen to any more of her lies.

Thanks,

Jax.

[QUOTE=Jkeys;438385]We rode a taxi to Florida today and the driver was listening to Kirchners speech. On the way back, I tried to get two taxi's to take us to our apartment on Rivadavia and Uriburu and they were both rude and said they could not take us. I know there was demonstrating at Congreso but that is four blocks from Uriburu and they could have gone all the way up Cordoba to Junin but both refused. Was she saying stuff against the US? These guys weren't friendly at all and was wondering if it was because we are Americans. We finally asked a driver to take us to Corrientes and Junin and when we got there asked him to continue on to Rivadavia and he said no way so we had to walk 6 blocks with my handicapped foot. Can some of you locals let us know what went on today? Thanks.[/QUOTE]Hi.

I am a professional chauffuer here in BsAs, and 9 de Julio and all around was all jammed up big time today for a huge rally. The taxi drivers were probably doing you a favor, you would have gone nowhere fast! Never seen so many busses before parked on 9 de Julio...

[QUOTE=SilverStar;438391]Hi.

I am a professional chauffuer here in BsAs, and 9 de Julio and all around was all jammed up big time today for a huge rally. The taxi drivers were probably doing you a favor, you would have gone nowhere fast! Never seen so many busses before parked on 9 de Julio...[/QUOTE]How come we were the only ones that knew how to skirt around the congestion? Cordoba all the way to Junin was wide open. Junin to Corrientes the same and when I asked the driver to take us 5 more blocks to Rivadavia I thought he was going to have a cardiac arrest. We walked Junin and there was no congestion. At Rivadavia, it was a one way turning away from Congreso. I think there was a certain amount of Paranoia going on with the drivers.

As Americans, was the content of her speech anything that would be of interest to us? We were here when her husband died and experienced the funeral stuff. I get the impression that she is like Obama, the Democrats love him and the Republicans despise him? We were also here when Bush was President and saw much graffiti that said F* Bush. Haven't seen that with Obama. How is their support for Obama?

Here's an interview with Ezequiel Burgo, a Clarin journalist who wrote the book "The Believer. Who is Axel Kicillof"?

[URL]http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1547988-por-mas-que-se-defina-como-keynesiano-kicillof-es-marxista[/URL]

Kicilloff is the 42 year old "Economy Minister" of Argentina, who reputedly now is the strongest finance minister Argentina has had since Domingo Cavallo. He's a specialist in Marxist economics, and was in charge of nationalizing (i.e. stealing) YPF from Repsol. The interviewer and Burgo point out that instead of recognizing that planned economies were the great failure of the 20th century, Kicillof chooses to dwell on hardships that have befallen developed capitalist economies during recent years. Kicilloff believes the crisis in Argentina is a crisis of capitalism.

Although he considers himself a Keynesian, Kicilloff performs his analysis using the strictures of Marxism. So the person running the Argentine economy is a witch doctor using totally-discredited principles someone dreamed up over 100 years ago, that were responsible for the greatest economic failures of our time, as a framework for making decisions.

What an idiot! This country doesn't have a prayer under current leadership.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;438403]Here's an interview with Ezequiel Burgo, a Clarin journalist who wrote the book "The Believer. Who is Axel Kicillof"?

[URL]http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1547988-por-mas-que-se-defina-como-keynesiano-kicillof-es-marxista[/URL]

Kicilloff is the 42 year old "Economy Minister" of Argentina, who reputedly now is the strongest finance minister Argentina has had since Domingo Cavallo.[/QUOTE]Isn't that like having Pee Wee Herman as your strongest body guard?

With all do respect to younger-me, if you aren't old enough to have been through a couple of financial cycles, you aren't ready to 'run' an economy.

[QUOTE==] He's a specialist in Marxist economics, and was in charge of nationalizing (i.e. stealing) YPF from Repsol. The interviewer and Burgo point out that instead of recognizing that planned economies were the great failure of the 20th century, Kicillof chooses to dwell on hardships that have befallen developed capitalist economies during recent years. Kicilloff believes the crisis in Argentina is a crisis of capitalism.[/QUOTE]There has never been a Marxist who could honestly sell Marxism based upon its inherent benefits (this includes the current occupier of 1600 Pennsylvania).

[QUOTE==]Although he considers himself a Keynesian, Kicilloff performs his analysis using the strictures of Marxism.[/QUOTE]Excellent point. Because of the aforementioned problem (Marxism has no true, real-world benefits), Marxists must drape themselves in the vestments of others so as to further obfuscate their true intentions. Keynes, and his body of work, has really just served as a beard for Marxists in countries where being outwardly Marxist is not in vogue.

[QUOTE==] So the person running the Argentine economy is a witch doctor using totally-discredited principles someone dreamed up over 100 years ago, that were responsible for the greatest economic failures of our time, as a framework for making decisions.

What an idiot! This country doesn't have a prayer under current leadership.[/QUOTE]Wait, I thought we were talking about Argentina. How did you switch so quickly to a critique of the US?

This article about Central Bank President Fabrega explains a lot about what is going on at high levels:

[URL]http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-12/argentina-s-malbec-man-showing-yale-economist-how-to-manage-peso.html?cmpid=yhoo[/URL]

[QUOTE=Stinger;438535]This article about Central Bank President Fabrega explains a lot about what is going on at high levels:

[URL]http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-12/argentina-s-malbec-man-showing-yale-economist-how-to-manage-peso.html?cmpid=yhoo[/URL][/QUOTE]I love Marco del Pont's parting wisdom which essentially said "someone will have to clean up the inflation mess that I have helped to create." That is like knocking a jar of red sauce off the shelf at the grocery store and yelling "clean up in aisle 8!"

The problem that Fabrega has is that the window for him to work a miracle is not wide enough. Loose monetary policy and reckless spending are the life blood of the entrenched Left. It doesn't matter if he is on the right track or what is best for the country, if what he is doing harms the electoral prospects of those in charge (I.e. Taking away the currency with which they buy votes), what he is doing will come to an end. He will then be blamed for its failure and cast under the proverbial bus.

I noticed several branches of the ICBC Bank in Buenos Aires in May 2014 that I do not remember in November 2013. ICBC is the Industrial & Commercial Bank of China. Banking prescence usually means that their is an intention to invest further into the country. In Los Angeles, the East West Bank was a major influence in expansion or Chinese. You also see the expansion of Chinese businesses. First it was the growth of Chinese markets. Now you see several fast food buffets around town run by Chinese.

One thing to consider is the real estate market. Chinese tend to be very into buying hard assets. They also tend to create their own communities within a city. In Los Angeles, Monterrey Park, San Marino and Rowland Heights are virtually Chinese villages. Sometimes they don't even bother to put English signage up. When Chinese buy real estate they do all cash deals. Can we extend the Los Aneles analogy to Buenos Aires? If the Chinese do migrate will it be to Belgrano or another neighborhood?

Any thoughts? Of course, after I wrote it I realize this is a stupid question because if anyone had strong inclinations about the trend (if it is a trend) and had the wherewithal to do anything about it, would not comment in a public forum.

[QUOTE=BigBossMan;439692]I noticed several branches of the ICBC Bank in Buenos Aires in May 2014 that I do not remember in November 2013. ICBC is the Industrial & Commercial Bank of China. Banking prescence usually means that their is an intention to invest further into the country. In Los Angeles, the East West Bank was a major influence in expansion or Chinese. You also see the expansion of Chinese businesses. First it was the growth of Chinese markets. Now you see several fast food buffets around town run by Chinese.

One thing to consider is the real estate market. Chinese tend to be very into buying hard assets. They also tend to create their own communities within a city. In Los Angeles, Monterrey Park, San Marino and Rowland Heights are virtually Chinese villages. Sometimes they don't even bother to put English signage up. When Chinese buy real estate they do all cash deals. Can we extend the Los Aneles analogy to Buenos Aires? If the Chinese do migrate will it be to Belgrano or another neighborhood?

Any thoughts? Of course, after I wrote it I realize this is a stupid question because if anyone had strong inclinations about the trend (if it is a trend) and had the wherewithal to do anything about it, would not comment in a public forum. [/QUOTE]Small time Chinese have a presence in Retiro. They own markets, buffets, and restaurants.

Tres3.

Many Chinese immigrants came from Taiwan in the 1980's. More recent and probably larger scale Chinese immigration to Argentina has been from the mainland, and from the province of Fujian in particular. The total Chinese population in Argentina went over 100,000 sometime around 2009 or 2010, and is probably in the 120,000 to 140,000 range now. Exact figures are tough to come by because a lot of the immigration is illegal.

Chinese businesses include restaurants and laundry services (traditional areas for Chinese immigrants in many nations). Increasingly in Buenos Aires the Chinese have focused their efforts on small, efficiently run markets with prices that are competitive to the big supermarkets. They often have very high quality fresh fruits and vegetables, sometimes with a Bolivian subtenant running that part of the overall business. (Bolivians appear to dominate the fresh produce store business, at least in many neighborhoods). This is a good niche for the Chinese; the big markets often have less fresh produce for sale and long slow check-out lines. The impact has been dramatic. The big markets may be hampered in their ability to respond to the economic challenge by unions that will stop management from forcing employees to work more efficiently, etc. Carrefour has opened more Carrefour Express (small) markets in partial response.

If you ask a Porteño "Donde está un Cino? He will know you want a good little market, not a Chinese person.

I have not been in Argentina for around 4 years now, and with each passing year, the pull is getting weaker.

BA has a nice Chinatown for those who want to have authentic Chinese ingredients and supplies. Was delighted with the quality and variety of fresh tofu. Except for a quick bowl of beef soup noodles, I did not try anything else. As with most countries, there is a shift to cater to local taste and preferences. I always wonder if I had open a simple beef dumpling stand, with a simple beef broth, would I have been able to make a fortune! We always had a good laugh with the next to nothing beef odds & ends at the market that we turned into tasty soups & stews.

With any immigrant groups, the younger generation had no hesitation in assimilation. I look on with envy at the young Chinese studs with their Argentinian gf's. Or Paraguyans? And there was a club in Palermo? where the well-dressed cool cats came in, and every girl abandoned their tables and flocked to them. Should have gone to them and spoken to them in the Hokkien dialect, maybe, they would have given "older brother" a break.

Just remember this when it comes to any Chinatown. There will always be good food, gambling & brothels.