The View From Down Under 2
Flashes of insight by an Australian (in Sydney) while playing online poker each night.
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What is real value?
The best answer to this is to meditate on that old story the of the blind men and an elephant.
"All of you are right. The reason every one of you is telling it differently is because each one of you touched the different part of the elephant'
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant[/url]
The point is that value depends on your point of view. The part of the elephant you are touching.
My last post was talking about value from the point of view of 2006 compared to 2011. This post I want to compare value of Argentina with Thailand.
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On Thailand and Argentina.
First a little background with GDP per capita (IMF 2010) in USD.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_[/url]
(nominal) _per_capita.
Australia $55, 590.
United Sates $47, 284.
Argentina $ 9, 138.
Thailand $ 4, 992.
A comparison of prices at two venues populated by 'Freelancers'.
1. Taipan Nightclub in Phuket, Thailand.
[url]http://www.phuket.com/nightlife/discos.htm[/url]
Cost of Short Time in USD with Freelancer USD $33 (1000 Thai Baht)
(my last trip to Phuket a year ago my average price here was 600 Baht. It was low season)
2. Newport in Buenos Aires, Argentina
Cost of Short Time in USD with Freelancer USD $100 (400 pesos)
[url]http://www.argentinaprivate.com/forum/showthread.php?1910-New-Port[/url]
See the post byStranger.
Phuket is considered expensive for Thailand.
If the Argentine freelancers were paid relative to their GDP per capita the equivalent to the Thai freelancers, then they would be paid something like USD $66 or (270 pesos).
On this point of view you may think the Thai freelancers are underpaid or the Argentine freelancers are overpaid.
I think USD $100 is about right and the Thai freelancers are underpaid.
Thailand is better value at the moment.
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I can only hope this Hedge Fund Manager's prediction will come true (but I doubt it).
AUD / USD = $1. 70.
[url]http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/rampaging-dollar-could-hit-us170-as-budget-and-industries-threatened/story-e6frg8zx-1226052152303[/url]
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Detroit.
[url]http://www.smh.com.au/world/aussie-trying-to-make-a-difference-gunned-down-20110510-1egnv.html　[/url]
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A response to the previous post.
This is a 'Critic Free' Area and you not my Captain. If you are insecure about your finances, then relax I have no desire to drive up prices.
The View From Down Under 3
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Excellent article on Australia in The Economist.
'The next Golden State'
[url]http://www.economist.com/node/18744197[/url]
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Freelance vs. Private Apartment.
Lets say that 400 Argentine Pesos (USD $100) is fair value to pay for a short time with an 8/10 Freelance (FL) working girl that frequents a bar or nightclub.
Alternatively you can go with an an 8/10 working girl in a Private Apartment for less than 500 Argentine Pesos.
Say you meet a FL at Newport and walk to one of the local 'albergues transitorios'.
Cost of FL + cost of short time hotel
= 400 + 100
= 500 Argentine Pesos.
How much is fair value for a short time with an 8/10 working girl from a Private Apartment?
Just on the strength of this equation I would say that if you can go with an 8/10 girl at a Private Apartment for less than 500 Argentine Pesos then it represents better value than 400 Argentine Pesos for a Freelance working girl.
Next posting I will look at Boliches.
The View From Down Under 4
Flashes of insight by an Australian (in Sydney) while playing online poker each night.
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[u]Boliche Experience (BE)[/u]
So to be clear we are talking Short Time (up to 2 hours)
Fair Value (FV) for an 8/10 working chica is.
1 up to 400 Argentine Pesos if Freelance (FL)
2 up to 500 Argentine Pesos if Private Apartment (PA).
So what represents FV for a Boliche Experience (BE).
I am considering FV for the whole BE. A party experience in a Boliche followed by taking out an 8/10 working chica from the venue. Based on my experience of the normal cost of similar experiences in Thailand & the Philippines.
FV for a BE = 2. 2 * the cost of a FL.
The 'party experience' typically includes paying for
- short time with the girl.
- bar fine (cost of taking the girl from the premises)
- lady drink (a drink for a girl you have chosen).
- a few drinks for yourself.
- a small tip for her to get a Taxi home (this is optional of course).
- tip for the waitress (this is also optional).
[u]Thailand[/u]
FV = 1000 Baht *2. 2= 2200 Baht or 75 USD.
[u]Philippines[/u]
FV = 1000 Pesos *2. 2 = 2200 Pesos or 50 USD.
Typically (for me anyway) it breaks down like this (if anything I have inflated the prices).
[u]Thailand / Philippines[/u]
- Girl 1000
- Taxi tip 100
- Party Expenses:
- Bar fine 500
- Lady drink 250
- My drinks & tips 450 (3 drinks)
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Total 2200 Baht or Pesos.
Pretty much the cost of the Philippines is 2/3 of Thailand. Party expenses typically amount to 50% of the total cost. So what would we expect using the same formula in Argentina? Say we go to Madahos.
[u]Argentina (BE)[/u]
FV = 2. 2 * 400 = 880 Argentine Pesos or 220 USD.
You would expect this would break down as follows:
[u]Argentina[/u]
Girl 400 Pesos
Taxi tip 40 Pesos
Party Expenses 440 Pesos.
--------------------------------------
Total 880 Pesos.
However it doesn't. See this post by stranger.
[url]http://www.argentinaprivate.com/forum/showthread.php?1908-Madahos[/url]
Instead prices are like.
[u]Argentina[/u]
- Girl 800 Pesos
- Taxi tip 80 Pesos.
- Party Expenses
- Entrance Fee 150 Pesos. (1 drink for me)
- My drinks & tips 400 Pesos (2 drinks)
- Lady drink 250 Pesos
--------------------------------------
Total 1680 Pesos.
Total = approximately 400 USD.
I would say that Madahos is expensive (but it is the sort of Boliche you have to go to find an 8/10 chicas). The type of venue is nice and shiny and classier than Thailand or the Philippines. The punters are better dressed. You will find the punters are from English speaking nations, Brazil, Chile, Europe & even Argentina (maybe). You can dance with the girl and there is a wonderful array of eye candy.
If you can reduce the prices for an Argentine BE to a total around 900-1000 Argentine Pesos, then I would say you are getting FV.
Maybe you can:
Bargain for two drinks on the entrance fee (I have on more than one occasion at some venues)
Drink coffee which might be priced differently that the alcohol.
Go very early and not pay an entrance fee.
Bargain the price of the girl to say 600 Pesos (e. G. Tell her you want to go to ST hotel within walking distance). I use to go early then take out an 8/10 to a short time hotel, then go back to the Boliche with the chica and have my drinking session at the Boliche. They won't recharge you for the entrance fee.
Talk to TL (why not check what he can do for you). Don't worry I am not in anyway related to him.
Go to lower priced venue and run the risk of not finding an 8/10.
You probably could with some effort be able to would reduce approx 300 Argentine Pesos to a total of something like 1380 Pesos. I still don't think this is low enough to be FV.
In my view itis hard to justify going to a Boliche given the reasonable prices charged at Private Apartments. I expect the Boliche prices to eventually drop (because I think Argentine economy will eventually have another crisis). But when who knows.
As an Australian I have an extra hope at the moment. The Aussie dollar has gone up and up the last two years. AUD = 0. 65 USD in November 2008 to 1. 06 USD in June 2011.
If the AUD went to 1. 25 USD and prices stayed constant in local currency, then I would definitely take a hard look at the BE in Argentina. It would be my duty to fly to Argentina and party hard. And of course the Private Apartments would be even cheaper.
But why bother with Argentina at all? The topic of my next post.
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I apologise for the expression "Argentine Meat " in the last post. Not really me.
The View From Down Under July 2011
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Gandolf50 & Chezz thanks for the support.
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If you don't find this interesting, then don't read it. It is as simple as that.
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The purpose of a Critic-Free Zone is to post "without incurring sarcastic and critical responses". I post here because I want to avoid the usual 'You are a donkey' 'No, you are the donkey' tit-4-tat to be found in other places of the forum. You won't find me making negative or sarcastic comments. I want to spend my time in a more productive way.
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I write for myself. It helps to clarify my thoughts. These are just notes for myself posted on AP for anyone who is interested. If just one person finds something I have written interesting, that is more than enough for me.
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A 'monger' will travel to a location primarily for the P4P experience. I am not a 'monger' I just want the P4P to add to my overall travel experience.
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Why travel to Buenos Aires? For the same sort reasons you would want to travel to Europe. BA is not a 'budget monger' travel destination. However you should not forget the Argentine women are beautiful and probably worth the premium price.
When should I go to Buenos Aires? March. It will be warm but without the stifling heat of summer. There will be a background of events at this time of the year.
Where should I stay in Buenos Aires? Las Canitas. It is safe and has an attractive village like quality which I like.
[url]http://www.barts.com.ar/barts/articles/articles_detail.php?recordID=palermo_las_canitas[/url]
[url]http://www.argentinaprivate.com/forum/showthread.php?3868-Staying-in-las-Canitas-in-Palermo[/url]
Recolete is the obvious alternative.
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When you arrive the first thing to do is adjust your body clock. Stay up to early morning, then sleep in late. If necessary have a siesta in the afternoon. The city happens at night. Put back every thing three hours (for example Dinner at 10:00PM not 7:00PM).
On your first night stay awake and have a drink at the local Dutch bar in Las Canitas called Van Koning.
[url]http://www.vankoning.com/[/url]
[url]http://www.timeout.com/buenos-aires/bars/venue/1:7976/van-koning[/url]
During March you can go and watch the Polo. There is a polo stadium in Las Canitas called Campo Argentino de Polo.
[url]http://www.timeout.com/buenos-aires/sport-health-fitness/venue/1:8259/campo-argentino-de-polo-de-palermo[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campo_Argentino_de_Polo[/url]
Combine watching the Tango with the San Telmo Antigues Fair on a Sunday. The quintessential tourist experience.
There is a Tango Festival in March.
[url]http://tangopal.com/cita.the.event[/url]
There is St Patrick's day 17 March 2011 which is celebrated in Buenos Aires.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIBcsSTJ3u0[/url]
Assuming River get promoted, then check to see if the Superclįsico will be played in March.
I am not suggesting that you go to Buenos Aires just to watch a US sporting event but there is also the NCAA Men's Division 1 Basketball Championship which is held in March and called 'March Madness'.
El Alamo.
[url]http://www.timeout.com/buenos-aires/bars/venue/1:26926/el-alamo[/url]
If you go to a bar like El Alamo, particularly during 'March Madness',
Then the bar is likely to be packed with a number of Americans (mainly but not only students) watching the event on TV. The students are likely to speak some Spanish. There will also be Argentines (likely to speak some English). So you will have the benefit of meeting Argentines and Americans.
After watching the basketball many of the students will go on to the nightclubs (typically in Palermo). If you 'click' with them, then you will be invited along to such venues. Venues that as an older non-Spanish speaker you may be reluctant to go to solo.
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Notes on tipping.
A) If you don't plan to return to the venue, then don't tip much.
B) If you do plan to return to the venue, then tip what is normal.
C) If you are at El Alamo, then tip like a whale. It gets busy and they actually respond to tipping with good service.
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A few other bars / clubs worth remembering.
Gran Bar Danzon.
[url]http://www.granbardanzon.com.ar/danzon/default2.htm[/url]
Million.
[url]http://www.milion.com.ar/eng/index.html[/url]
Club Museum on a Wednesday night. This night has the benefit of starting early (something like 7PM) catering to office workers. Later on in the night the locals check out the talent while doing circuits of the venue.
[url]http://www.buenostours.com/club-museum[/url]
[url]http://www.clubmuseum.com.ar/[/url]
Unico.
[url]http://www.timeout.com/buenos-aires/bars/venue/1:24858/nico-barra[/url]
Thelonious Club. A small Jazz Club.
[url]http://www.thelonious.com.ar/english/index.html[/url]
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P4P Venues.
Check out the sheets provided by Jackson. Note the tourist rip off venues.
[url]http://www.argentinaprivate.com/foru.esTipSheet.pdf[/url]
[url]http://www.argentinaprivate.com/foru.on-s-Club-Maps[/url]
On my first night at Black I met up with an American who was on holiday from Brazil. It was early around 10:30PM. We were the only customers at the venue.
He started talking to one of the girls and they left for his hotel. After no more than 40-45 minutes she had returned and was looking for her next client.
This may be obvious but I will say it anyway. High prices (at expensive venues like Black) do not guarantee that you were the first with a girl that night.
In BA you need to be sure if it is ok to bring a girl back to your hotel and find out whether the hotel will charge you for it.
Short time hotels are available near the Clubs. I think it makes sense to use them rather than take girls back to your hotel or apartment.
[url]http://www.alberguestransitorios.com/[/url]
Private Apartments offer the best value. Take the time to read this forum as it has everything you need to know about them.
[url]http://www.argentinaprivate.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?759-Private-Apartments[/url]
Also click on the postings by WorldTravel69. IMHO he has the most valuable posts of any member of AP (excluding Jackson of course).
The AP experience
The number of P4P venues (aside from Private Apartments) in Buenos Aires is small compared to Thailand or the Philippines. I think the there is an advantage to a small scene.
Many AP members are American expatriates living in BA They are welcoming to like minded tourists. It is sort of like comparing a friendly village (BA) to an impersonal city (for example Pattaya in Thailand).
AP members would meet at L'alliance and then go to the cafes nearby. L'alliance is now closed and the former owner of L'Alliance now runs a tourist guide business. He posts under the name 'TejanoLibre'.
[url]http://www.argentinaprivate.com/forum/showthread.php?6686-TejanoLibre-s-Privado-and-Club-Tours&[/url]
I am in no way connected to TL.
If you want the AP experience you can try something like 'Thursday Evening Dinner at the AP House' or contact members directly through AP.
Cocodrilo.
[url]http://www.cocodrilobuenosaires.com/[/url]
This venue is primarily for locals. For atmosphere this is my favourite P4P venue in Buenos Aires. The problem is that it opens late. It is also regarded by some AP members as not being safe for foreigners. I have never had any problems but read the link and decide for yourself.
[url]http://www.argentinaprivate.com/forum/showthread.php?2075-Cocodrillo[/url]
Maybe a good place to bring a Spanish speaker. Perhaps someone like TejanoLibre can help.
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A general plan for P4P might be:
1. During the day or early evening go to the Private Apartments.
2. After10 PM meet up with AP members at a restaurant or one of the cafes,
3. After Midnight go to the clubs in the Suipacha Triangle,
4. After 2AM go to the clubs in Recoleta
5. After 4AM go to the Cocodrilo Nightclub.
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Food.
It is not hard to find recommendations for where to get a good steak.
Don't forget Peruvian cuisine as an alternative. (e. G. Ceviche).
Buffet restaurants are inexpensive and provide relief to the Non-Spanish speaker. You can help yourself or at least point to the food rather than struggle with a menu in Spanish or a surly waiter who doesn't speak English.
The are many good buffet restaurants in BA (e. G. Marini near Santa Fey Scalabrini Ortiz, Palermo)
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For a comparison of prices between Sydney and Argentina.
[url]http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/comparison.jsp[/url]
More on prices in Sydney. Assume USD = AUD for sake of simplicity.
$ 20 An entrance fee (no drink) to a table top venue 'Pure Platinum'.
$ 90 A private dance for 15 minutes (fully nude but no touching).
[url]http://sydneytabledancingclubs.com.au/clubs/pure-platinum/private-shows/[/url]
$300 A sixty minute session next door at the 'The Penthouse'.
[url]http://www.thepenthouse.com.au/[/url]
$6, 000 Twenty sessions (assume 1 per day) at The Penthouse, Sydney
Just focusing on the three main cost drivers being women, airfare and accommodation.
$2, 500 A return economy air ticket from Sydney to Buenos Aires & travel insurance.
$2, 000 Rent for 20 nights at a serviced apartment ($100 USD per night) in Las Canitas.
$2, 000 BA privado 20 sessions (assume 1 per day at $100 USD)
$6, 500 Total
BA is not as cheap as it was a few years ago and is no longer a 'budget monger' travel destination. The inflation rate is over 20 percent. If the high inflation rates continue, then prices will start to approach European levels.
The situation produces posts of despair like the following which I came across on the ISG thread for Cartegena by Artisttyp in response to a post by our old friend Sidney.
[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?582-Cartagena-Reports/page4&[/url]
'As far as I know the only thing that is still affordable are the privado chicas. Going to BA without indulging in good food wine and shopping is like going to Italy and buying your meals at a supermarket. '
I can only agree. If you plan to travel to Argentina, then make sure you can afford the best it has to offer. Otherwise wait until the rampant inflation leads to another economic collapse.
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Unrelated to Argentina.
Larry Kotlikoff: 'The US fiscal situation is worse than Greece, but the bond market doesn't really understand that. Greece's fiscal gap is about 11 times GDP, whereas in the US it's about 14 times GDP. In terms of unofficial debts, the US is in worse shape than Greece. But when looking at official debts, it appears we're in better shape. Even on an official debt basis, in a decade the US will be at the debt-to-GDP ratio of Greece. On the current trajectory (as a share of GDP) , official debt in the US will far exceed the Greek value over 15 to 20 years'.
[url]http://knowledge.asb.unsw.edu.au/printer_friendly.cfm?articleid=1427[/url]
Where can a single American male retire? An amusing podcast from James Howard Kunstler about a retirement village in Florida. In particular the discussion about 'the Rooster '.18:10.
[url]http://kunstlercast.com/shows/KunstlerCast_146_Geritopia.html[/url]
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