Does anyone know what the Argentine Pay Scale actually is?

I have been doing a bit of research and the numbers are all over the place. I have had people tell me that doctors and lawyers and such make about 100, 000 pesos / yr and others tell me they only make about 60, 000 pesos / per year. Others tell me the prostitutes are making over 500000pesos / year while other tell me 15000. I mean really, if they made 500000pesos / year wouldn't they be considered super rich and drive Porshes to your pad? So please only respond if you actually know what you are posting is true as my bull shit meter is way over tilt from some private conversations on the topic recently.

What does the average_______make in Argentina / year in pesos?

Highschool teacher.

Plumber.

Subway driver.

Department store sales person.

Hair stylist.

Doctor.

Lawyer.

Police officer.

Fireman.

Any others you want to add to help me understand the range and economy.

I really appreciate any help you have. Even some of the "data" I reviewed from the government makes no sense at all. None of it jives with what a few friends there have told me, but what they have said doesn't really add up either. Really, I am trying to figure out, how much money does a single 25 year old have to make in Argentina to live a reasonable lifestyle?

Pete

[QUOTE=Peter Sideburn; 422904]I have been doing a bit of research and the numbers are all over the place. I have had people tell me that doctors and lawyers and such make about 100, 000 pesos / yr and others tell me they only make about 60, 000 pesos / per year. Others tell me the prostitutes are making over 500000pesos / year while other tell me 15000. I mean really, if they made 500000pesos / year wouldn't they be considered super rich and drive Porshes to your pad? So please only respond if you actually know what you are posting is true as my bull shit meter is way over tilt from some private conversations on the topic recently.

What does the average_______make in Argentina / year in pesos?

Highschool teacher.

Plumber.

Subway driver.

Department store sales person.

Hair stylist.

Doctor.

Lawyer.

Police officer.

Fireman.

Any others you want to add to help me understand the range and economy.

I really appreciate any help you have. Even some of the "data" I reviewed from the government makes no sense at all. None of it jives with what a few friends there have told me, but what they have said doesn't really add up either. Really, I am trying to figure out, how much money does a single 25 year old have to make in Argentina to live a reasonable lifestyle?

Pete[/QUOTE]Pete, this is not so easy to answer and I'll explain why.

High school teachers are paid by the weekly hours they work. Most of them are professionals that also do a few hours teaching for whatever reason they may have (status, enjoy doing it etc) and then the wage grows a lot depending on their antiquity. So the wage can go from about 2800 pesos a month for a new teacher with a minimum amount of hours to about 6000 for an old teacher with a full schedule.

A store sales person. Most stores pay only a really bottom minimum wage and then add some extra under the table. Usually as commission for sales. So a wage slip can show about 2800p but the person can take home anywhere from another 1500 to 10000. Depending on the type or amount of merchandise sold.

A policeman and a fireman get the same wage. That is the Federal Police Firemen. The volunteer firemen are really volunteers and get no wage. So a rooky cop gets about 4000p a month but almost all of them do extra work in banks and so on. So, depending on how many hours they do they can earn anywhere between another 2000 and 4000p. Also they get paid extra fro service at football games etc. This is a lump sum for each game. I really don't know how much but I should think it's about 200p by now. And they can get between two and three games a week or none!

Subway drivers. They have been striking a lot lately for better wages and I'm not sure what they finally worked out. What I can say is they only work six hour shifts and are not allowed overtime.

Factory workers. I know well a guy working in a Coca Cola bottling plant and he makes about 11000p a month and can work as much overtime as he likes. I know another guy working at a printers and he makes a little over 4000 a month with no possibilities for overtime.

The butchers, the bakers and the candlestick makers. (Lawyers, plumbers, doctors and hair stylists) Depends soooo much on where they are. Plumbers are probably the better paid of the tradesmen. A plumber in Recoleta might charge 300 or more pesos a visit whereas in Villa Lugano 40 pesos a visit. (That is just to tell you what needs to be done).

Doctors and lawyers the same. Some become millionaires some barely make ends meet.

Chicas. I can talk of independents and / or triangle club girls. I would say they average five tricks a week. I know some days they may do three but then they may be days without a client. The locals pay from about 200p to 600p (with about 400 being the average) depending on whether they are regular clients or if they are some redneck just in BA for a night or two. About US$100 has always been the initial negotiating sum. This, in pesos fluctuates a little depending on the difference between the official and black exchange rates. Today, a girl in Catto's or Hook takes home an average of around 1500 to 2500p a week. Girls in Black or Madahos may charge more but they also do less tricks so they don't end up making much more in the week. I know some will jump here with examples of chicas making twice that or even more but there are many others that might not even do more than two tricks a week. So I am talking of averages.

A single 25 year old needs to make about 4000p a month to survive (living at his parents) , between 8k and 10k a month to live alone and take a girl out to eat a couple of times a month. He needs about 15K a month to live a comfortable though careful lifestyle.

It also depends where in the country you are talking about. It is much cheaper to live in Chaco or Jujuy then in Buenos Aires. I find that things are cheaper in the city (BA) then the province (BA). Its almost the reverse of how things are in the states. My neighbor works for the big milk company La Serenisima, he makes around 7000p a month with overtime etc. He lives hand to mouth. But he is a typical argie and over pays for everything, buys everything in payments and thus pays double. Around here (village of Moreno / Lujan) 7000p is a lot of money per month. The starting pay for provincial police is still UNDER 2000p monthly! Its hard to keep track with all the changes in the past year. But, one thing that is true at least out here in the provincia is that truck drivers make much more then the average doctor. It is very hard to put a average on anything here. Sort of like comparing housing pricing and wages in North Dakota to New York!

[QUOTE=Aqualung; 422906]Pete, this is not so easy to answer and I'll explain

A single 25 year old needs to make about 4000p a month to survive (living at his parents) , between 8k and 10k a month to live alone and take a girl out to eat a couple of times a month. He needs about 15K a month to live a comfortable though careful lifestyle.[/QUOTE]So let's say take home pay is over US$3,000. if renting in local area & no car payments, plenty of money leftover for whatever. Still way better off than in the US?

Until recently in Bangkok, a college graduate in an entry job was making around US$300+. Plans are underway to increase it to US$500 in government jobs. I really don't know how they survive, let alone raise a family. Many hustling in the streets selling food makes just as much or more. A dentist working for somebody else makes close US$3000. I know some foreign English teachers who are making the same (and many of their students are prepping to be flight attendants). This is just off the top of my head, I am sure there are statistics available.

My thinking is that US$3000 is more than nice in BA and princely in Bangkok.

[QUOTE=Black Shirt; 422910]So let's say take home pay is over US$3, 000. If renting in local area & no car payments, plenty of money leftover for whatever. Still way better off than in the US?

Until recently in Bangkok, a college graduate in an entry job was making around US$300+. Plans are underway to increase it to US$500 in government jobs. I really don't know how they survive, let alone raise a family. Many hustling in the streets selling food makes just as much or more. A dentist working for somebody else makes close US$3000. I know some foreign English teachers who are making the same (and many of their students are prepping to be flight attendants). This is just off the top of my head, I am sure there are statistics available.

My thinking is that US$3000 is more than nice in BA and princely in Bangkok.[/QUOTE]The Chauffeurs that work at the best 5 Star hotels get about 5K peso per month, plus they keep all tips. 60 hour week minimum typically.

Fred.

[url]www.silverstarcar.com[/url]

Premium Airport Transfers in English without the 5 Star Hotel fares

I greatly appreciate all the input.

So what I have learned is that if you are a new policeman, for example, and certaily if you work at a store, you will either live with your parents, a friend, or live on the street. This makes some sense as many of the people I have met have legit jobs, some with college or trade school, yet they are desperate for money and don't seem to be able to even have an apartment. One friend has a one room apartment that is really small (250 sq ft) and barely makes ends meet working two jobs (one as concierge and other selling electronics).

So if this is the case, how does anyone ever save for retirement? Do all their parents either die or live with their children? Are social programs covering the elderly?

I think I may have to rent a place there. I could work 6 months in US and just play in BA for 6 months and aparently break even if I was frugal while there.

Speaking of Madahos. And experience comes to mind. The only time I was there two ladies said 500 dollars / lady / hour for their company after a bar drink of course. I laughed, even while a wee bit influenced by my friend Jack Daniels, and she walked off with her friend. So, the place was closing in about 15min and we stayed till it closed. Of course, no one else took her out. Why wouldn't she return and make a reasonable offer. Frankly, I think she and her friend could have done well. If her charge had been reasonable she and her friend would have probably been with my wing man and I for a few hours. They would have made significant money but not obscene. I don't understand this economy at all.

Pete.

[QUOTE=Silver Star; 422915]The Chauffeurs that work at the best 5 Star hotels get about 5K peso per month, plus they keep all tips. 60 hour week minimum typically.

Fred.

[url]www.silverstarcar.com[/url]

Premium Airport Transfers in English without the 5 Star Hotel fares[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Peter Sideburn; 422930]I greatly appreciate all the input.

So what I have learned is that if you are a new policeman, for example, and certaily if you work at a store, you will either live with your parents, a friend, or live on the street. This makes some sense as many of the people I have met have legit jobs, some with college or trade school, yet they are desperate for money and don't seem to be able to even have an apartment. One friend has a one room apartment that is really small (250 sq ft) and barely makes ends meet working two jobs (one as concierge and other selling electronics).

So if this is the case, how does anyone ever save for retirement? Do all their parents either die or live with their children? Are social programs covering the elderly?

I think I may have to rent a place there. I could work 6 months in US and just play in BA for 6 months and aparently break even if I was frugal while there.

Speaking of Madahos. And experience comes to mind. The only time I was there two ladies said 500 dollars / lady / hour for their company after a bar drink of course. I laughed, even while a wee bit influenced by my friend Jack Daniels, and she walked off with her friend. So, the place was closing in about 15min and we stayed till it closed. Of course, no one else took her out. Why wouldn't she return and make a reasonable offer. Frankly, I think she and her friend could have done well. If her charge had been reasonable she and her friend would have probably been with my wing man and I for a few hours. They would have made significant money but not obscene. I don't understand this economy at all.

Pete.[/QUOTE]All workers here. That is if they are legally employed. Have deductions from their wages to insure their pension on retirement. So no one saves for that. These retirements are usually very low and hardly covers the basics but, depending on the union, they have special deductions that assure a little better pension.

Those that never paid into a pension fund also collect a small pension when they arrive at retirement age. Remember Argentina has a more European style social system than the US (if it worked like it should) so retirement and health is covered by the state.

[QUOTE=Aqualung; 422933]All workers here. That is if they are legally employed. Have deductions from their wages to insure their pension on retirement. So no one saves for that. These retirements are usually very low and hardly covers the basics but, depending on the union, they have special deductions that assure a little better pension.

Those that never paid into a pension fund also collect a small pension when they arrive at retirement age. Remember Argentina has a more European style social system than the US (if it worked like it should) so retirement and health is covered by the state.[/QUOTE]This is very true and is also one reason the country is going broke. Women who have had 7 or more children collect a pension for life for having added to the canon fodder of the poor. This is in addition to the money you receive once you pass the third month of your pregnancy. My neighbors who are nationalized argies (Paraguayans) collect two pensions. He never worked a day in life in "blanco" yet he collects. She because she gave birth 9 times (only twice here in Argentina) collects a pension based on her children. Between the two of them they collect over 3000p a month that I can not rationalize other then they are die hard supporters of Christina and Nestor without whom they would collect nothing. Now the people who have worked all their life in"blanco" very often have to sue to collect their pensions. They are tied up in red tape for years unless you use a lawyer or "gestor" to smooth the way. I read in the papers last year that Christinas mother had to sue to collect her pension!

My apologies as this is going astray from the main discussion of the thread but for those who don't live here it gives you a idea of how the government and economy works (or in reality how it is not working!)

[QUOTE=Gandolf50; 422941]This is very true and is also one reason the country is going broke. Women who have had 7 or more children collect a pension for life for having added to the canon fodder of the poor. This is in addition to the money you receive once you pass the third month of your pregnancy. My neighbors who are nationalized argies (Paraguayans) collect two pensions. He never worked a day in life in "blanco" yet he collects. She because she gave birth 9 times (only twice here in Argentina) collects a pension based on her children. Between the two of them they collect over 3000p a month that I can not rationalize other then they are die hard supporters of Christina and Nestor without whom they would collect nothing. Now the people who have worked all their life in"blanco" very often have to sue to collect their pensions. They are tied up in red tape for years unless you use a lawyer or "gestor" to smooth the way. I read in the papers last year that Christinas mother had to sue to collect her pension!

My apologies as this is going astray from the main discussion of the thread but for those who don't live here it gives you a idea of how the government and economy works (or in reality how it is not working!) [/QUOTE]All of this is a very interesting subject.

A friend who was born and raised in BA had the following to say in regard to the discussion we are having:

"The construct of upward mobility or the "American Dream" doesn't exist in Argentina unless your parents own land, you are a sports or media figure, or you are on the take." She claims people strive to just survive and have a few nice things which strangely she tells me for Argentine women is often the ability to have plastic surgery! "A good husband will let his wife have her imperfections corrected.". Most of this is done on credit according to her so the cost is actually quite high. It seems that the "social programs" in Argentina have parity with some of POTUS' brilliant ideas. Rewarding the masses for remaining the mass instead of for aspiring to raise themselves and their country to improved conditions seems a sure way to maintain tight control of power over an economically dwindling republic. "Hope" should not be in regard to the next handout but rather to the opportunity to improve one's condition through hard work and sacrifice in my opinion.

From the standpoint of starting a business there, one thing I have noticed is that many of the ladies I have spoken with have not been at all interested in what they could do to make it a success but instead only on how little would they need to do for larger pay. I see this more and more in the US as well. It is hard to find the hunger in the eyes of many of the young to improve themselves, their families, or their society. Of course there are exceptions that I have befriended both in Argentina and the US, but the trend seems pretty clear; or maybe I am just getting old and jaded in my views. I find that my companies in the US must interview 30-50 individuals for entry level positions to find those with the attitude needed for self sacrifice, dedication, and team spirit toward accomplishing the goals of the company. This is 3-5 times that of even 10 years ago. Has fatalism lead to our societies becoming more accepting of their current status? I see wonderful people accepting life positions I know they could lift themselves out of with encouragement, guidance, and a reasonably fair and truly equitable system.

Pete

[QUOTE=Peter Sideburn; 422949]I find that my companies in the US must interview 30-50 individuals for entry level positions to find those with the attitude needed for self sacrifice, dedication, and team spirit toward accomplishing the goals of the company. This is 3-5 times that of even 10 years ago.

Pete[/QUOTE]Only 50? Where are you at LOL! I was starting to think that some of the people I interview checked in a few chromosomes at the door. I interviewed a kid last week that will graduate from Yale with a masters and he could not do a basic task! His parents defiantly got a great deal LOL!

Now if only I could find a job that paid in dollars in BA jaja!

Maybe I should move to BA and do mongering tours for newbies or be a "fixer", there is defiantly money to be made LOL!

Just go to Chinatown, BA or LA, and they will tell the reason they immigrated was for a better life. And the great majority is doing that. They take whatever fall through the cracks by the "homeboys" and turn it into gold. Hustle, sacrifice and helping each other, that is the name of the game.

Meanwhile, history is repeating itself with the "homeboys". As with previous great civilizations, prosperity leads to indulgence, and then to hell. The good part is that sometimes, it takes a hundred or so years to go down the drain. The Chinese completed their cycle a few times, America, the innocent is still a virgin. And Argentina has always been the master of self-delusion.

Take all these with a grain of salt.