Economic basket cases

I like the comments on the front page of the forum regarding negotiating.

Argentina and Buenos Aires are not quite as awash with cash as the growth rates would suggest.

Reports are suggesting that Mar del Plata (where many chicas "season") Pinamar and Carilo saw a 40% drop in revenues this year. The new car registrations are due to improved financing. Go to Las Canitas, Palermo Viejo etc. And observe how many people are actually spending, as opposed to hanging around.

Also, the myth of the wealthy tourist gringo: apart from property, there is next to no inward foreign investment, so the visiting businessman loaded with cash is not as common as one is led to believe. Tourism is booming, but take a look at the tourists, the majority are either couples or retirees. True, there are more young tourists, but the rates being quoted are out of their league.

Argentine Economic Logic (which has led to 5 defaults) is that when faced with competition (internet, privados, even more boliches, transvestites) and falling sales, increase your prices. The chicas have always raised their rates when business is slow. The logic being, less clients, charge more per client. Where they really screw up is: being stupid and standing firm on a tarif and then doing no business at all. They always have an opening price, but never a closing one (the commerical savvy of "I will ask for 300 and settle for 200, maybe even 150 if business is slow", just does not exist here, in any sector)

The exception, as it is in all sectors, all over the world, is the internet. The privados, which advertise on the internet, are also fabulous value.

It is not for nothing that this country is an economic basket case.

[QUOTE=Deebeeay]I like the comments on the front page of the forum regarding negotiating.

Argentina and Buenos Aires are not quite as awash with cash as the growth rates would suggest.

Reports are suggesting that Mar del Plata (where many chicas "season") Pinamar and Carilo saw a 40% drop in revenues this year. The new car registrations are due to improved financing. Go to Las Canitas, Palermo Viejo etc. And observe how many people are actually spending, as opposed to hanging around.

Also, the myth of the wealthy tourist gringo: apart from property, there is next to no inward foreign investment, so the visiting businessman loaded with cash is not as common as one is led to believe. Tourism is booming, but take a look at the tourists, the majority are either couples or retirees. True, there are more young tourists, but the rates being quoted are out of their league.

They always have an opening price, but never a closing one (the commerical savvy of "I will ask for 300 and settle for 200, maybe even 150 if business is slow", just does not exist here, in any sector)

The exception, as it is in all sectors, all over the world, is the internet. The privados, which advertise on the internet, are also fabulous value.

It is not for nothing that this country is an economic basket case.[/QUOTE]If you want to find some real economic basket cases I suggest you look further north. The US, Britain, and Spain, are all now suffering the inevitable consequences of a decade of debt-fueled house price inflation, ever-expanding budget deficits and out-of-control banking practices. From a global perspective, economies with a good natural resource base, strong on commodities, with a relatively small property bubble, and a well controlled budget deficit (like Argentina) don't look so bad after all.

I tend to agree with you the city is probably not as awash with tourist cash as some people make out. But I don't agree with your comment about girls asking for 300p and being unwilling to accept 200p or 150p. I don't know which places you go to, but I find that invariably when girls first ask for 300p they will practically always accept 150p or 200p.

When talking about basket cases. Do not compare England or Spain to the biggest basket case in the world for the last 10 Years, the United States of America.

The UK and Spain has this year, in constant currency terms, a GDP that has grown more then 50 per cent more than the US since.

The start of the millenium.

[QUOTE=Lysander]If you want to find some real economic basket cases I suggest you look further north. The US, Britain, and Spain, are all now suffering the inevitable consequences of a decade of debt-fueled house price inflation, ever-expanding budget deficits and out-of-control banking practices. From a global perspective, economies with a good natural resource base, strong on commodities, with a relatively small property bubble, and a well controlled budget deficit (like Argentina) don't look so bad after all.[/QUOTE]Hi Lysander,

With add due respect, I am ROTFLMAO.

The American economy is an incredibly powerful wealth-generating machine, and to suggest that because we might have let up on the gas a bit or perhaps even have hit a speed bump that the entire economy is heading for an apocalyptic crash is ludicrous. Quite frankly, your postulation sounds like the usual anti-American BS that's been repeatedly predicted for decades by the usual economic fear mongers and anti-USA hopefuls.

Thanks,

Jackson

[QUOTE=Isola2000]When talking about basket cases. Do not compare England or.

Spain to the biggest basket case in the world for the last 10

Years, the United States of America.

The UK and Spain has this year, in constant currency terms, a.

GDP that has grown more then 50 per cent more than the US since.

The start of the millenium.[/QUOTE]Two economic "success stories" built on a decade of cheap borrowed money, inflated real estate prices, and a switch to cheap imports from China and India which has kept inflation down. In Britain's case, there has been on over reliance on the income generated by the financial industry, and a huge increase in government spending.

This is all now coming to juddering halt. The UK property crash is about a year behind the US but given that UK house prices are even more inflated than in the US, there are many who feel that the UK economic down-turn may be even more serious then the US. It is happening right now. Read the "Times Online" if you don't believe me. Have you noticed what has been happening to the UK pound recently? Its going down with the dollar, against the Euro.

Spain is locked into the Euro, which is a problem for them because (unlike Germany which doesn't have a property bubble) they are desperate to lower interest rates to save their real estate market. Rampant property inflation and massive over-building have resulted in a situation where apartments on the Costas and many other parts of spain, are virtually unsaleable even at current knock down prices.

Yes the US economy is in trouble and almost certainly has to get worse before it gets better, but in the end it will probably survive. The devalued dollar is helping exports, and the US, unlike Britain, does still have a manufacturing base (aerospace, pharmaceuticals etc) and healthy agricultural industry. Spain will always do well out of tourism and has invested in industry, so in the end will pull through. I am not sure I feel so confident about the future of the UK economy.

England had the property crash 1988 to 1993

I bought a property in Richmond, 20 minutes from Central London in 1988 and lost 30 per cent before the bottom was reached in 1993 when I was forced to sell it. This was the reference, 30 per cent down.

I have a feeling that in the US you are very far away from a natiowide fall of 30 per cent and the bank system are reeling.

The UK banking system suffered, but managed.

[QUOTE=Jackson]Hi Lysander,

With add due respect, I am ROTFLMAO.

The American economy is an incredibly powerful wealth-generating machine, and to suggest that because we might have let up on the gas a bit or perhaps even have hit a speed bump that the entire economy is heading for an apocalyptic crash is ludicrous. Quite frankly, your postulation sounds like the usual anti-American BS that's been repeatedly predicted for decades by the usual economic fear mongers and anti-USA hopefuls.[/QUOTE]Actually Jackson, strange as it may seem, I am not anti American and I tend to agree with you. As you say the US is an incredibly powerful economic machine. Its current problems stem from recent economic mismanagement and military adventurism. These can and will be changed. I feel entirely confident that American will come through the current crisis, and will continue to be the world's only superpower. If it is "anti-American" to be unenthusiastic about current US economic management and foreign policy, then if current opinion polls are anything to go by then more than half the American people must count as "anti-American".

Actually the current crisis in world Banking and property markets is only partly the fault of the US. Its a Global crisis created by all the governments in the lasts decade who have confused real economic growth and development with fantasy economic growth based on cheap borrowed money and inflated real estate values.

[QUOTE=Deebeeay]I like the comments on the front page of the forum regarding negotiating.

Argentina and Buenos Aires are not quite as awash with cash as the growth rates would suggest.

Reports are suggesting that Mar del Plata (where many chicas "season") Pinamar and Carilo saw a 40% drop in revenues this year. The new car registrations are due to improved financing. Go to Las Canitas, Palermo Viejo etc. And observe how many people are actually spending, as opposed to hanging around.

Also, the myth of the wealthy tourist gringo: apart from property, there is next to no inward foreign investment, so the visiting businessman loaded with cash is not as common as one is led to believe. Tourism is booming, but take a look at the tourists, the majority are either couples or retirees. True, there are more young tourists, but the rates being quoted are out of their league.

Argentine Economic Logic (which has led to 5 defaults) is that when faced with competition (internet, privados, even more boliches, transvestites) and falling sales, increase your prices. The chicas have always raised their rates when business is slow. The logic being, less clients, charge more per client. Where they really screw up is: being stupid and standing firm on a tarif and then doing no business at all. They always have an opening price, but never a closing one (the commerical savvy of "I will ask for 300 and settle for 200, maybe even 150 if business is slow", just does not exist here, in any sector)

The exception, as it is in all sectors, all over the world, is the internet. The privados, which advertise on the internet, are also fabulous value.

It is not for nothing that this country is an economic basket case.[/QUOTE]Foreign tourists bring 200 milion dollar a year more into the country then Argentines spend abroad.

Why is it when someone posts anything remotely critical of the US, someone on the forum spouts hateful rhetoric like being anti-American or anti-American hopefuls, a traitor, etc?

Talk about having an inability to have a serious, meaningful dialog with others who have a different opinion. I guess differing opinions are not allowed by some who can only spewing inflammatory rhetoric.

I guess it is that old attitude of "if you do not agree with me you are always wrong and are, at the very least, a traitor to the US". Talk about a narrow, ignorant mentality.

I am always amazed that there are those that think the US is perfect, has never done anything wrong, never interferes where it shouldn't and that every other country never does anything right.

Suerte.

Stowe

And what it has to do in a thread about Argentine Economy baffles me.

:)

[QUOTE=Stowe]....that every other country never does anything right.[/QUOTE]I've never said that other countries never do anything right.

Thanks,

Jackson

[QUOTE=Aqualung]And what it has to do in a thread about Argentine Economy baffles me.

:)[/QUOTE][blue]Hi Aqualung,

Because that was the topic of the 1st post in the thread.

Nevertheless, I've revised the thread title.

Thanks,

Jackson[/blue]

Hey if the US was Navarra / Paradise, what the hell are you guys doing in Argentina? All countries have their short comings and strong points, the US is no different. I love the US even though I don't always agree with what the government does, that said I can not wait to retire in Argentina!

My apologies for the original report which was clearly misposted in the boliche section.

For what it is worth, I think Argentina could very well have an economic crisis this year. That having been said, I believe that the 3 to 5 year period following the next crisis will be gangbusters. Right now there are serious problems in the economy.

On "basket case" - Indonesia, Turkey, Mexico and Russia all defaulted and immediately entered boom periods. Argentina did no such thing after its 2001 crisis. The 8% growth rates (courtesy of INDEC! Need to be taken in perspective - that is, just how much the economy had shrunk. Growth following a 40-50% decrease in real GDP, is not that difficult.

Traditionally, Argentina is prosperous when there is foreign investment accompanied by foreign management involved in the disbursement of the funds, as occurred in the 1990s. Once the foreigners leave, and the Argies are left to manage their own affairs - it does not take long for the whole thing to unravel. This has been going on for a very long time. In 1890 Argentina defaulted and bankrupt Barings Bank in the process (Barings were bailed out by the Bank of England on that occassion. Not so lucky in 1995)

Kind of related - the boliches are an amazing source of information regarding the welfare of the economy. They are after all on the coal face / pillow head.

Sex and money! Prostitution in London grew enormously during the credit boom years. Always relevant.