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I'm watching the Sunday morning new shows. Nancy Pelosi should be shot. Obama needs to give her and her crew a spanking. Neo- progressive [read hidden liberal] senator Charles Schummer even seemed embarassed by the self interest; political plundering; and lack of thoughtfullness of the trillion dollars the house is ready to pour down the toilet.
Thank god for the US Senate. Schummer indicates that the Senate bill will get back on track for Obama's goals: quick stimulus, housing, jobs and infrastructure--energy, health care information technology and reform.
For those of you not familiar with the structure of the US Government, the Senate requires a 60% vote to get anything serious done. This forces thoughtful debate---both extremes will not get their ways. The bill will not be centered on huge tax cuts for the investor class[rich] nor middleclass give aways nor pet projects for individual powerful politicians.
Now, John Kerry is on. Even he parts company with the Pelosi mafia. Need to fix the bill and get back on traCK---- WOW, could the usa political class actuall work together? and produce rational economic legislation to avoid a great depression. The republican senate is still held up on tax cuts for the wealthy investor class, but other wise tends to generally aggree with Kerry? Senator kay bailey hutchinson--republican leader--is talking about tax cuts for the wealthy to stimulate investment.
Same old far right wing solutions. She aggrees with much of the old bush agenda. Kerry is talking about fixing housing, jobs, stimulation of the economy--rebuilding old electric infrastructure---jobs and cash into the economy. She has quite a bit in common with kerry even though there are differences. I feel optimistic. There what might be termed an intelligent dialog.
It's been a long time without with such dialog.
Miami Bob,
It's not a stimulus package. It's a liberal pork fantasy bill masquerading as a stimulus bill.
If they really wanted to stimulate the economy, for less than this bill is projected to cost, they could instead give every person in the country a tax holiday for six months. That would reduce the payroll tax withholdings to zero and inject cash into the economy beginning immediately with every one's next paycheck.
Of course, they won't do that because they couldn't lord over how the money is spent AND because, unlike the so-called "tax rebate", it wouldn't give any money to people who don't pay taxes in the first place, and they need to find a way to send a check to all of their supporters.
Anyway, the USA economy will eventually correct itself and return to it's historic role as an incredible wealth-generating machine in the next couple of years, for which the Liberals will take the credit, not withstanding this anchor they are dropping in it's wake.
Thanks,
Jackson
I think the wealthy have large capital gain losses to carry forward on their taxes that will last two and three years into the future. This year I was able sell out of long held investments in oil and Latin America stocks with no tax consequence because I could match the gains with other losses. What investment taxes am I paying that you want to give me a break on? However having said that I will gladly take any money that the Republicans give me if we are not going to balance the federal budget. I would prefer that the tax money be used to pay off the deficit because in the long-run I believe a balance budget leads to healthier economy. In a healthier economy it is easier for a non-rocket scientist like me to find good investments.
Also I think that most of us have tons of cash on our balance sheets. I am actually looking for investments. I think it is time to go back in fully invested. I recently put 5% of my stash into things like emerging market telecom (MICC, CHL) REIT senior debt (HCP, Regency and Simon) and debt from Sovereign Bank which is merging with Santander on March 31. I also bought some JNJ. You can get into any of these positions at the price I did or cheaper. People have cash, look at the interest rates on treasuries, they are just not investing because it hard to find interesting investments.
[QUOTE=Big Boss Man] <snip> People have cash. They are just not investing because it hard to find interesting investments.[/QUOTE]I've had "interesting" investments, thank you very much, and they have cost me a shit load of money. I am now looking for brain numbingly dull, but safe, investments!
Bob
The wait for the invisible hand of the market could be 6 to 10 years. Both moderate republicans and democrats are supporting Obama's basic approach with some basic policy disaggreements. The senate will NEVER pass a bill even remotely simular to PELOSI's folly.
[QUOTE=Miami Bob]The wait for the invisible hand of the market could be 6 to 10 years. Both moderate republicans and democrats are supporting obama's basic approach with.
Some basic policy disaggreements. The senate will NEVER pass a bill even remotely simular to PELOSI's folly.[/QUOTE]We'll see where we are when the dust settles.
Jack
Miami Bob,
My problem is my boring investments such as Bank of America, Boeing, General Electric and Merck became interesting last year. I don't think I can tell the difference between boring and interesting anymore. If you can tell me the difference, I will gladly sit at your knee in rapturous reverence.:) I sincerely hope you and I both do well in the markets this year. I think I ran into you at Excedra a couple of years back. Take care.
I LOST much more money than I can afford last year. When I am talking about this stimulous package, I'm not thinking about what is best for my personal financial situation. I am affraid of major depression as one of the real possibilities. I believe that the moderates from both parties in the Senate will be thinking in a similar fashion.
I am gambling by keeping some money in the market: BP, COP with energy diversification and safe dividends. I will wait and energy must go up over the next year or two. LINN is interesting--an energy trust with a high dividend--my small position is up big, but I'm not selling because of the dividend. Copper bought when bottom fishing. I sold and re purchased a brazilian EFT at half the price. Looking at a China ETF, but not cheap enough yet. The Chinese have their own stimulus in place and will do more.
Gambling on some GS purchased on the cheap--they are the smartest guys in town. I may buy jpm--jaime dimon is the smartest ceo in the financial industry--it's not cheap enough now. I am reading and believing that GS, JPM and MS have taken almost all of the toxic garbage off their books. I think that we will retest the lows. These banks will survive and make lots of money in the future--which could be within the next year or years. As sid posted the research shows that you make your real money during unexcepted runs which are impossible to even pretend to time.
My largest position is MO----like getting paid to wait. High diviidend. Merck looks like a good place to nibble as we retest the lows. I'm watching celgene and have a small position in gild--biotech with a monopoly on hiv / aids.
I got stuck in Shaw Industries and I'm down sooooo far, but think that infrastructure plays are rational, so I'm still in part of my position which is way down. I won't add to it unless obama starts talking nuclear in a serious way. Foster wheeler.-I am watching and is probably a better way to play infrastructure as they are more diversified.
I have a small position in Rio which is also way down, but I'm not selling. China should recover early--I hope, then Rio and fcx should start to move--it will be a while. China is the major user of cooper and iron and these stocks are just soooooo cheap based upon the value of their assets or as possible take overs. I have a position PBR based on their huge mega offshore gas and oil finds and their future value which is not really on the books now. I will be sitting on dead PBS money for a while--no big dividend and third world risks---I'm either stupid or have balls or both. [I'm about 8% in energy in total of all positions]
My MCD is still up--small position. Same thing with a small position in YUM--cheap good eats and growing in China throughout the slow down. The Chinese love the fried chicken. Read their report--it is amasing what yum is doing internationally. MCD is predicting us$125, 000in extra revenue per store based upon coffee style drinks a la starbucks, but a almost half the price.
A couple of small positions in gold minners have been moving up. I actually pay attention when el alamo talks.
I am taking risk. I got killed and I hope that I am guessing right. I don't recomemd any one else follow anything I am doing. The pros may think that I'm nuts and I may be nuts. I am a diversified nut who is preying for a rational Stimulous package to push things along.
Would Obama please punch-out Nancy Pelosi and get Bidden working the senate.
It has been a very expensive year for myself too. My first thought to recoup, hitch your wagon to the financials. Believed they would be the first to recover. Think I have dialed a wrong number: STT. Really have my doubts about that now. My feeling is Bank of America may go TU. Lewis is an idiot. Bite the bullet and let the cards fall where they may. We are just throwing good money after bad bailing these idiots out. I have a few toxic positions. Perhaps I should apply for some TARP money. This financial debacle is bigger than anyone is letting on, my feeling. About like the last time I got busted: How much have you had to drink sir? Two beers officer.
Know inflation does not seem a threat at the moment, however, if there is one certainty in this thing, double digit inflation is on the horizon. Got kind of beat up when I suggested GLD a few months back on this forum, but it has proven to be a good play. Cheap entry into gold may be AZK. The other thing I have been looking at is Platinum. Gold and Platinum are about to converge. Hard to believe. Good indication of how bad things are in the industrial world: Platinum. My thinking is, any signs of life in industrial production, Platinum may not be a bad play: AAUK. I like hard assets. Then there was good old I Bonds, adjusted semi annually for inflation. However, Treasury for some unknown reason changed the amount an individual could purchase a few years back to 5k per year. Guess they were too good of a deal for the average Joe. Only explanation I could come up with. They are a very liquid asset. Have problems with the liquidity of TIPS. My thing, secondary market. For Energy, liked what Miami Bob said, but my purchases have primarily been with Canadian Companies. Think Canada has the best run Economy on the Planet. It gives me that warm fuzzy feeling: ENB, IMO, NXY, CNQ. Best American oil company: OXY (Occidental) none better: my view. Good luck to everyone.
Buy the Oil companies, the Phone companies and the regulated Electric utilities all for the dividends and you'll be just fine.
Exon
of the house or Pelosi bill, but used more diplomatic language about getting back to the president's vision. That's why I asked for Obama to slap her down is his own subtile style and get Bidden working the senate. The senate will never pass a mess like the current house bill.
The house with a large majority traditionally does extreme stuff and the Senate acts as the gate keepers of compromise and moderation. Don't give up the ship, yet. I hope that I'm correct, else I have completely misread Obama and his economic advisers who seem to be much more moderate than the house of reps.
Sid, I fully aggree with your complaints. Stimulus is to turn away from depression, not everyones favorite self interest projects. It takes 60% vote in the Senate to get anything important done.
[QUOTE=Sidney]Is this Bill the type CHANGE you anticipated?[/QUOTE]Sidney,
This bill is EXACTLY the change that the Obama supporters voted for.
You know the mantra: Power to the people, redistribution of wealth, the nanny state, etc.
Jackson
[QUOTE=Jackson]Sidney,
This bill is EXACTLY the change that the Obama supporters voted for.
You know the mantra: Power to the people, redistribution of wealth, the nanny state, etc.
Jackson[/QUOTE]We could return to the policies of the last 8 years, after all they worked really well. Didn't they?
I'm a Republican but can't stand what's happened over the last 8 years on our watch. We've lost our way. From a party perspective, I don't think it's a good time to be pointing fingers, it will get us nowhere. Time to work together and sweep the crap back into the toilet where it belongs.
Jack
[QUOTE=Jackjack1]I'm a Republican but can't stand what's happened over the last 8 years on our watch. We've lost our way. From a party perspective, I don't think it's a good time to be pointing fingers, it will get us nowhere. Time to work together and sweep the crap back into the toilet where it belongs.
Jack[/QUOTE]I would be happy if the real conservatives stood up and reclaimed the Republican party myself. I think we are best governed with a balance of conservative and liberal ideology.
Honestly I don't see a lot of difference between the "parties" but I do think we have a president that understands America as the majority of us know it. Multi-cultural, hard working people. He had no silver spoon in his mouth and understands the plight of the working poor because he grew up as one.
I was behind the former president from Sept. 11 until the folly in Iraq started, I hope some of these knee jerk off Pubs can do the same.
[QUOTE=Sidney]Stimulus': Your Money for Illegals, Welfare Recipients, Arts, and Sex.
Just how outrageous is this shameful $819 billion stimulus?
For starters — and this will shock you — both the House and the Senate programs have a loophole that even gives illegal aliens cash payouts.
Here's how The Associated Press explained it: "Undocumented immigrants who are not eligible for a Social Security number can file tax returns with an alternative number. A House-passed version of the economic recovery bill, and one making its way through the Senate, would allow anyone with such a number, called an individual taxpayer identification number (TIN) to qualify for the tax credits."
In case you didn't know it, any illegal can get a TIN number from Social Security, no questions asked.
This means illegals who broke the law to get here will be eligible immediately for federal cash — up to $1,000!
It gets worse. Let me detail for you some facts from the "stimulus":
* More than $4 billion is earmarked for "neighborhood stabilization activities" — money that will go to groups like ACORN, which worked closely with the Obama campaign, the same group accused of massive voter fraud.
* Almost half of the proposed spending will directly benefit the Service Employees International Union, federal, state, and municipal employee unions, or other Democratic-controlled unions, according to writer Ben Stein.
* $600 million goes for news cars for top government bureaucrats.
* Obama promised major infrastructure projects — yet only 5 percent of all the money goes for this.
* $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts.
* $75 million to fund anti-smoking programs.
* $650 million for the switch from analog television to digital.
* $335 million to help prevent the spread of sexually transmitted diseases.
* $600 million for "climate change" research programs.
This is just a small part of the long laundry list of trivial, weird, and simply outrageous programs being funded in the Obama stimulus bill, which goes on for 680 pages — so long no one in the House was believed to have read it before voting for it![/QUOTE]I take it you agree with the Republicans, haha? In the case of the "illegals," I agree-there should be no handouts, but a little known fact that nobody seems to talk about is the amount of money that illegals put "back" into the system when the taxes taken out of their paychecks fails to go into their fake social security and other federal tax accounts. Substantial figure since McDonalds and the like employ a vast amount of illegal aliens.
Jack
[QUOTE=Daddy Rulz]We could return to the policies of the last 8 years, after all they worked really well. Didn't they?[/QUOTE]Seven years of strong economic growth, Al Qaeda beaten to a pulp, the liberation of 37 million people from a brutal dictatorship, an renewed respect internationally for American military power, and not a single terrorist attack on American soil since 9/11.
Yea, I'd easily return to the policies that resulted in all of the above.
Thanks,
Jackson
[QUOTE=Jackson]Seven years of strong economic growth, Al Qaeda beaten to a pulp, the liberation of 37 million people from a brutal dictatorship, an renewed respect internationally for American military power, and not a single terrorist attack on American soil since 9/11.
Yea, I'd easily return to the policies that resulted in all of the above.
Thanks,
Jackson[/QUOTE]Jackson you're a cool dude, but have at it. This country is in the horrible economic state because of the last 8 years. This country is hated by most because of it's failed foreign policies. People in Iraq living under the "dictatorship" didn't ask to be saved by us. There were NO weapons of mass destruction, it was all a sham. Billions of dollars lost, thousands dead for what? No regulation covering our financial markets got us to where we are.
Sure, let's go back.
Jack
[QUOTE=Jackjack1]Jackson you're a cool dude, but have at it. This country is in the horrible economic state because of the last 8 years. This country is hated by most because of it's failed foreign policies. People in Iraq living under the "dictatorship" didn't ask to be saved by us. There were NO weapons of mass destruction, it was all a sham. Billions of dollars lost, thousands dead for what? No regulation covering our financial markets got us to where we are.
Sure, let's go back.
Jack[/QUOTE]What's up with the Demos and tax evasion?
[url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090203/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_killefer[/url]
Jack
[QUOTE=Jackjack1]What's up with the Demos and tax evasion?
[url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090203/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_killefer[/url]
Jack[/QUOTE]Agreed! PAY YOUR FUCKING TAXES! I'd like to think these assholes were protesting the policies of the past eight years by slacking on their taxes, but, uh, I just don't think so. And this garbage about somehow being unaware, please. I got a letter from the IRS a few months back informing me I owed them an extra $13! I'm guessing they send you letters when you owe 100 grand. Of course, if you didn't own up originally on some stuff, that's another kettle of fish, and you should have your ass deep fried for that as well.
[QUOTE=Jackjack1]Jackson you're a cool dude, but have at it. This country is in the horrible economic state because of the last 8 years.[/quote]No, the economy was great for 7 years. It's been in a "horrible economic state" only for the past few months.
[QUOTE=Jackjack1]This country is hated by most because of it's failed foreign policies.[/quote]You've been listening to too many leftist college students and equally leftist media. Try talking to some people in the business community.
[QUOTE=Jackjack1]People in Iraq living under the "dictatorship" didn't ask to be saved by us.[/quote]ROTFLMAO! How exactly were they supposed to ask? By referendum?
[QUOTE=Jackjack1]There were NO weapons of mass destruction, it was all a sham.[/quote]Personally, I didn't need that moral crutch anyway.
[QUOTE=Jackjack1]Billions of dollars lost, thousands dead for what?[/quote]To liberate 36 million people from a brutal dictatorship. Did you miss those words in my last post?
[QUOTE=Jackjack1]No regulation covering our financial markets got us to where we are.[/quote]We agree on this. I hold Bush personally responsible for not reining in the Dems as they were eliminated credit requirements and started loaning money to anybody with a pulse.
Thanks,
Jackson
[QUOTE=Jackson]No, the economy was great for 7 years. It's been in a "horrible economic state" only for the past few months.
Yes it's been great for 7 years, if you're a hedgefund, in oil or up until recently in the banking industry.
You've been listening to too many leftist college students and equally leftist media. Try talking to some people in the business community.
I'm a Republican, but a centrist, I don't like the jargon on either of the political extremes.
ROTFLMAO! How exactly were they supposed to ask? By referendum?
Personally, I didn't need that moral crutch anyway.
To liberate 36 million people from a brutal dictatorship. Did you miss those words in my last post?
Liberate? Why don't we liberate people from Zimbabwe, how about taking people out of the horrible grasp of Kim Jong-il in North Korea, what about the oppressed in Cuba, How about liberating Venezuela? Well, for one thing, they probably don't have oil or anything else we can get our little greedy hands on.
We agree on this. I hold Bush personally responsible for not reining in the Dems as they were eliminated credit requirements and started loaning money to anybody with a pulse.
Thanks,
Jackson[/QUOTE]What we agree on something lol?
Jack
Jax you guys really need to run Rush in 2112.
Jackjack the war cost Trillions not billions brother.
Any comments on this idea.
[url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/bailout_executive_pay[/url]
Jackson's comments say it best:
[QUOTE=Jackson]I hold Bush personally responsible for not reining in the Dems as they were eliminated credit requirements and started loaning money to anybody with a pulse.
Thanks,
Jackson[/QUOTE]For the sake of honesty let's drop the horseshit "Bush lied, people died" mantra. Let's also stop it with the no WMD bullcrap; 3300 tonnes of yellow-cake uranium in Iraq that went virtually unreported around election time is validation there was a substantive intent to develop WMDs and shows that Joseph Wilson wasn't very good at the intelligence business or is a lying sack of camel crap. Add in the fact that there are thousands of dead Kurds that serve as an example of a purposeful intent to use WMDs and that no WMD argument doesn't hold water.
Jackson's facts in a prior post regarding our economy are irrefutable. The economy tanked in the last year, not over eight. Root cause is simply the fact that credit was extended to people who had little probability or no intention of paying back the money they PERSONALLY committed themselves to pay.
The answer to what started this sounds very simple to me; the American dream was extended to people going all the way back to the Carter years and continued all the way through GW's two terms. Only the American Dream was not an "Earned" opportunity, it was an "Entitlement" program that we will be paying for over the next couple of generations. Nobody stood up to the Barney Franks, Clintons, ACORNs, Community "Reinvestment" people and others with differing motives and we took a collective elephant dick up our rear-end. That includes my beloved Republican Party representatives and senators in Congress.
All the snowball effects that came as a result of this entitlement program are the cleansing enema we experience right now.
Regarding the United States position as a world leader. You will only see what you look for; I know my dollars spend well in every country I visit and I wear my passion for my country proudly on my sleeve.
Or once again, some may not agree. Suerte.
[QUOTE=Jackjack1]Liberate? Why don't we liberate people from Zimbabwe, how about taking people out of the horrible grasp of Kim Jong-il in North Korea, what about the oppressed in Cuba, How about liberating Venezuela? Well, for one thing, they probably don't have oil or anything else we can get our little greedy hands on.[/QUOTE]All in good time, but first let's finish the job in Iraq.
BTW, how can we be characterized as "greedy" when we're paying full market price for every drop of Iraqi oil we receive?
The entire premise that we liberated Iraq because we wanted their oil is ridiculous. The fact is that if all we wanted was the oil, the Saddam would have glady sold us all the oil we wanted, and at a price that wouldn't have included re-building a country.
It must be wonderful to be a liberal, to live emotionally and unconstrained by the actual facts.
Thanks,
Jackson
[QUOTE=QuakHunter]Jackson's comments say it best:
For the sake of honesty let's drop the horseshit "Bush lied, people died" mantra. Let's also stop it with the no WMD bullcrap; 3300 tonnes of yellow-cake uranium in Iraq that went virtually unreported around election time is validation there was a substantive intent to develop WMDs and shows that Joseph Wilson wasn't very good at the intelligence business or is a lying sack of camel crap. Add in the fact that there are thousands of dead Kurds that serve as an example of a purposeful intent to use WMDs and that no WMD argument doesn't hold water.
Jackson's facts in a prior post regarding our economy are irrefutable. The economy tanked in the last year, not over eight. Root cause is simply the fact that credit was extended to people who had little probability or no intention of paying back the money they PERSONALLY committed themselves to pay.
The answer to what started this sounds very simple to me; the American dream was extended to people going all the way back to the Carter years and continued all the way through GW's two terms. Only the American Dream was not an "Earned" opportunity, it was an "Entitlement" program that we will be paying for over the next couple of generations. Nobody stood up to the Barney Franks, Clintons, ACORNs, Community "Reinvestment" people and others with differing motives and we took a collective elephant dick up our rear-end. That includes my beloved Republican Party representatives and senators in Congress.
All the snowball effects that came as a result of this entitlement program are the cleansing enema we experience right now.
Regarding the United States position as a world leader. You will only see what you look for; I know my dollars spend well in every country I visit and I wear my passion for my country proudly on my sleeve.
Or once again, some may not agree. Suerte.[/QUOTE]Yer a funny guy, but this post and some others on the board need to be put in a time capsule with the headline, "Dumb as a bag of hammers in 2009". Sorry brother, keep on plugging them quackers.
Bush didn't lie, he actually believes in the Easter Bunny and that Jack Bauer will save the world. It was Cheney and the gang that orchestrated this mess. Nobody has a real number as to how much we've spent in this sham of a war that we started but they're estimating at over a trillion.
I wonder what Jeb's up to these days?
Jack
[QUOTE=Jackjack1]I wonder what Jeb's up to these days?
Jack[/QUOTE]I'm sure Jeb has got his hands full these days with his Queen-like wife and whackjob daughter. I wouldn't trade places with that guy for love or money. Plus, Dubya probably calls him "turdcutter" or "hiney hole".;)
[QUOTE=QuakHunter]Jackson's comments say it best:
For the sake of honesty let's drop the horseshit "Bush lied, people died" mantra. Let's also stop it with the no WMD bullcrap; 3300 tonnes of yellow-cake uranium in Iraq that went virtually unreported around election time is validation there was a substantive intent to develop WMDs and shows that Joseph Wilson wasn't very good at the intelligence business or is a lying sack of camel crap. Add in the fact that there are thousands of dead Kurds that serve as an example of a purposeful intent to use WMDs and that no WMD argument doesn't hold water.
SNip[.[/QUOTE]The fact that there was yellow cake does not mean anything. He had a nuclear reactor before the Israeli bombed it. It is normal to have yellow cake if you have a nuclear reactor. If he was working on a nuclear program when we invaded, then where are the hundred if not thousands of centrifuges need enrich the uranium? Iran has hundreds of centrifuges in a cascade trying to enrich uranium.
Eden cites the Associated Press concerning yellowcake uranium removed from Iraq recently. The article also mentions that the yellowcake uranium was under the control of the U. N.'s International Atomic Energy Agency "safeguard" since 1991. This was not the famous and fictitious yellowcake from Niger, which Bush used to scare the American people with even after the CIA told him the information was false.
He may have had a nuclear program before the Israeli bombed his reactor, but I do not think he was working on it when the US invaded. There was no urgent reason to invade Iraq. He was not massacring his people, he was not threatening to invade his neighbor.
The reason the major media has not taken up the story is, that since the yellowcake was under IEA safeguards since 1991, there is no real story there.
[QUOTE=Tessan]The fact that there was yellow cake does not mean anything. He had a nuclear reactor before the Israeli bombed it. It is normal to have yellow cake if you have a nuclear reactor. If he was working on a nuclear program when we invaded, then where are the hundred if not thousands of centrifuges need enrich the uranium? Iran has hundreds of centrifuges in a cascade trying to enrich uranium.
Eden cites the Associated Press concerning yellowcake uranium removed from Iraq recently. The article also mentions that the yellowcake uranium was under the control of the U. N.'s International Atomic Energy Agency "safeguard" since 1991. This was not the famous and fictitious yellowcake from Niger, which Bush used to scare the American people with even after the CIA told him the information was false.
He may have had a nuclear program before the Israeli bombed his reactor, but I do not think he was working on it when the US invaded. There was no urgent reason to invade Iraq. He was not massacring his people, he was not threatening to invade his neighbor.
The reason the major media has not taken up the story is, that since the yellowcake was under IEA safeguards since 1991, there is no real story there.[/QUOTE]That is kind of like the argument, "I smoked pot but I didn't inhale".
I'm sure the unbiased information from the ASSOCIATED PRESS is totally reliable (Excuse me while I choke on my own vomit) The WEAPONS GRADE yellow cake that was in iraq's POSSESSION was hidden from inspectors for years and was discovered covertly. It was not under IEA control, if it was how did Joseph Wilson miss it? His directive was expanded beyond the Niger visit; it was in his purview to find evidence of yellow cake uranium.
What was the yellow cake uranium being moved around for? Saddam could have also complied with UN sanctions and demonstrated he was not going to massacre MORE people and that he was not going to invade ANOTHER country and remained the loving, benevolent leader that he was and avoided the invasion.
Regarding no centrifuges for refining and enrichment; why do you need them if you already have the product for bombs? If there was an ongoing power related program there would have been an investment in a continued supply of uranium, henceforth centrifuges.
Again, we can see this any way we want. I am not so obstinate that I cannot see the consequences of the Iraq war and its toll economically, socially and personally.
It's just I think it is totally disingenuous to try and associate the war, or George Bush's character as the root cause of our current economic collapse.
Extremely Bad Judgement? Yes, that is the argument one can make. You will get no disagreement from me.
The following is a letter by some guy who has an interesting plan as a result of the economic stimulus discussion. Well written and to the point.
[quote]To All My Valued Employees,
There have been some rumblings around the office about the future of this company, and more specifically, your job. As you know, the economy has changed for the worse and presents many challenges. However, the good news is this: The economy doesn't pose a threat to your job. What does threaten your job however, is the changing political landscape in this country.
However, let me tell you some little tidbits of fact which might help you decide what is in your best interests.
First, while it is easy to spew rhetoric that casts employers against employees, you have to understand that for every business owner there is a back story. This back story is often neglected and overshadowed by what you see and hear. Sure, you see me park my Mercedes outside. You've seen my big home at last years Christmas party. I'm sure; all these flashy icons of luxury conjure up some idealized thoughts about my life.
However, what you don't see is the back story.
I started this company 28 years ago. At that time, I lived in a 300 square foot studio apartment for 3 years. My entire living apartment was converted into an office so I could put forth 100% effort into building a company, which by the way, would eventually employ you.
My diet consisted of Ramen Pride noodles because every dollar I spent went back into this company. I drove a rusty Toyota Corolla with a defective transmission. I didn't have time to date. Often times, I stayed home on weekends, while my friends went out drinking and partying. In fact, I was married to my business - hard work, discipline, and sacrifice.
Meanwhile, my friends got jobs. They worked 40 hours a week and made a modest $50K a year and spent every dime they earned. They drove flashy cars and lived in expensive homes and wore fancy designer clothes. Instead of hitting the Nordstrom's for the latest hot fashion item, I was trolling through the discount store extracting any clothing item that didn't look like it was birthed in the 70's. My friends refinanced their mortgages and lived a life of luxury. I, however, did not. I put my time, my money, and my life into a business with a vision that eventually, some day, I too, will be able to afford these luxuries my friends supposedly had.
So, while you physically arrive at the office at 9am, mentally check in at about noon, and then leave at 5pm, I don't. There is no "off" button for me. When you leave the office, you are done and you have a weekend all to yourself. I unfortunately do not have the freedom. I eat, and breathe this company every minute of the day. There is no rest. There is no weekend.
There is no happy hour. Every day this business is attached to my hip like a 1 year old special-needs child. You, of course, only see the fruits of that garden - the nice house, the Mercedes, the vacations. You never realize the back story and the sacrifices I've made.
Now, the economy is falling apart and I, the guy that made all the right decisions and saved his money, have to bail-out all the people who didn't.
The people that overspent their paychecks suddenly feel entitled to the same luxuries that I earned and sacrificed a decade of my life for.
Yes, business ownership has is benefits but the price I've paid is steep and not without wounds.
Unfortunately, the cost of running this business, and employing you, is starting to eclipse the threshold of marginal benefit and let me tell you.
Why:
I am being taxed to death and the government thinks I don't pay enough. I have state taxes. Federal taxes. Property taxes. Sales and use taxes. Payroll taxes. Workers compensation taxes. Unemployment taxes. Taxes on taxes. I have to hire a tax man to manage all these taxes and then guess what? I have to pay taxes for employing him. Government mandates and regulations and all the accounting that goes with it, now occupy most of my time. On Oct. 15th, I wrote a check to the US Treasury for $288,000 for quarterly taxes. You know what my "stimulus" check was? Zero. Nada. Zilch.
The question I have is this: Who is stimulating the economy? Me, the guy who has provided 14 people good paying jobs and serves over 2,200,000 people per year with a flourishing business? Or, the single mother sitting at home pregnant with her fourth child waiting for her next welfare check? Obviously, government feels the latter is the economic stimulus of this country.
The fact is, if I deducted (Read: Stole) 50% of your paycheck you'd quit and you wouldn't work here. I mean, why should you? That's nuts. Who wants to get rewarded only 50% of their hard work? Well, I agree which is why your job is in jeopardy.
Here is what many of you don't understand. To stimulate the economy you need to stimulate what runs the economy. Had suddenly government mandated to me that I didn't need to pay taxes, guess what? Instead of depositing that $288,000 into the Washington black-hole, I would have spent it, hired more employees, and generated substantial economic growth. My employees would have enjoyed the wealth of that tax cut in the form of promotions and better salaries. But you can forget it now.
When you have a comatose man on the verge of death, you don't defibrillate and shock his thumb thinking that will bring him back to life, do you? Or, do you defibrillate his heart? Business is at the heart of America and always has been. To restart it, you must stimulate it, not kill it.
Suddenly, the power brokers in Washington believe the poor of America are the essential drivers of the American economic engine. Nothing could be further from the truth and this is the type of change you can keep.
So where am I going with all this?
It's quite simple.
If any new taxes are levied on me, or my company, my reaction will be swift and simple. I fire you. I fire your co-workers. You can then plead with the government to pay for your mortgage, your SUV, and your child's future. Frankly, it isn't my problem any more.
Then, I will close this company down, move to another country, and retire. You see, I'm done. I'm done with a country that penalizes the productive and gives to the unproductive. My motivation to work and to provide jobs will be destroyed, and with it, will be my citizenship.
So, if you lose your job, it won't be at the hands of the economy; it will be at the hands of a political hurricane that swept through this country, steamrolled the constitution, and will have changed its landscape forever.
If that happens, you can find me sitting on a beach, retired, and with no employees to worry about.
Signed,
Your Boss[/quote]
[QUOTE=QuakHunter]That is kind of like the argument, "I smoked pot but I didn't inhale".
I'm sure the unbiased information from the ASSOCIATED PRESS is totally reliable (Excuse me while I choke on my own vomit) The WEAPONS GRADE yellow cake that was in iraq's POSSESSION was hidden from inspectors for years and was discovered covertly. It was not under IEA control, if it was how did Joseph Wilson miss it? His directive was expanded beyond the Niger visit; it was in his purview to find evidence of yellow cake uranium.[/QUOTE]You are confusing two different things. Plutonium may have been found according to Fox. Plutonium is always weapons grade, that's why it is so controlled. Plutonium does not occur naturally. Uranium does. There is no way Iraq can convert the Yellow Cake to Plutonium, unless they had a nuclear reactor running, that's why the Israeli bomb their only reactor.
I don't think it was enough for a nuclear weapon, or it would have made more headlines. It's probably small amounts made by doing experiments producing fission. Probably in preparation for the nuclear reactor, which would have been able to make them a bomb every year or 2. But since it was destroyed, don't think they could make much. To make amounts useable for a Nuke, it can take a large nuclear reactor 1-2 years to make enough for one bomb. With small experiments it would take tens of thousands of years.
Lets see if they say how much Plutonium there was. I bet it's less then a pound. It's probably less then an oz. it might be only a few grams. my guess, but i will not bet on it, (a pound is safe) is its less then a gram.
[QUOTE=Tessan]You are confusing two different things. Plutonium may have been found according to Fox. Plutonium is always weapons grade, that's why it is so controlled. Plutonium does not occur naturally. Uranium does. There is no way Iraq can convert the Yellow Cake to Plutonium, unless they had a nuclear reactor running, that's why the Israeli bomb their only reactor.
I don't think it was enough for a nuclear weapon, or it would have made more headlines. It's probably small amounts made by doing experiments producing fission. Probably in preparation for the nuclear reactor, which would have been able to make them a bomb every year or 2. But since it was destroyed, don't think they could make much. To make amounts useable for a Nuke, it can take a large nuclear reactor 1-2 years to make enough for one bomb. With small experiments it would take tens of thousands of years.
Lets see if they say how much Plutonium there was. I bet it's less then a pound. It's probably less then an oz. It might be only a few grams. My guess, but I will not bet on it, (a pound is safe) is its less then a gram.[/QUOTE]I hope that I can close up this thread by saying that we're going to have to agree to disagree. Always two sides and we'll never hear the right story. Plus I don't want to get into a pissing contest with Jackson, I'm positive that his dick is bigger.
Jack
[QUOTE=Tessan]You are confusing two different things. Plutonium may have been found according to Fox. Plutonium is always weapons grade, that's why it is so controlled. Plutonium does not occur naturally. Uranium does. There is no way Iraq can convert the Yellow Cake to Plutonium, unless they had a nuclear reactor running, that's why the Israeli bomb their only reactor.
I don't think it was enough for a nuclear weapon, or it would have made more headlines. It's probably small amounts made by doing experiments producing fission. Probably in preparation for the nuclear reactor, which would have been able to make them a bomb every year or 2. But since it was destroyed, don't think they could make much. To make amounts useable for a Nuke, it can take a large nuclear reactor 1-2 years to make enough for one bomb. With small experiments it would take tens of thousands of years.
Lets see if they say how much Plutonium there was. I bet it's less then a pound. It's probably less then an oz. It might be only a few grams. My guess, but I will not bet on it, (a pound is safe) is its less then a gram.[/QUOTE]I like my version of the facts. They suit my story much better.
I heard MacGyver was the one enriching the yellow-cake into plutonium with a vibrator and left over wet naps from a privado.
Pay your taxes everyone. We are going to need the money.