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There are many threads related to money on the board but I have not found any information regarding transferring money into the country (please advise if I have missed posts on this topic). I am about to lease an apartment and will most likely have to pay 2 years advance rent, which is over US$10k. Surely other guys have needed funds like this as the rent prepayment is very common. How does one get the funds into the country, other than carrying the money in an envelope from the US? ATM cards work fine here but with a $300/ day limit I'd need over a month to withdrawl that amount of cash. Western Union % fees are ridiculous. Even with a local bank account, you must initiate the transfer in person from the US, and I have no immediate plans to be there. Advice?
[QUOTE=Moore]There are many threads related to money on the board but I have not found any information regarding transferring money into the country (please advise if I have missed posts on this topic) I am about to lease an apartment and will most likely have to pay 2 years advance rent, which is over US$10k. Surely other guys have needed funds like this as the rent prepayment is very common. How does one get the funds into the country, other than carrying the money in an envelope from the US? ATM cards work fine here but with a $300/ day limit I'd need over a month to withdrawl that amount of cash. Western Union % fees are ridiculous. Even with a local bank account, you must initiate the transfer in person from the US, and I have no immediate plans to be there. Advice?[/QUOTE]Do the same thing you would in the states, give them a cashiers check. This is guarenteed funds and you have a receipt. I paid a large sum in cash once (in BsAs) and they wanted to record the serial number of every bill in case any were returned to them as counterfiet! What a pain in the ass, Any one who is legit will accept a cashiers check.
If your future landlord will not accept cashier's check then you can do what I did. I transferred US$ 8,000 to the account of my foreign exchange agent and got the money in cash after 24 hours.
Here is how it works. I transferred the money from my US bank account to their account with Bank of America in New York. After they have verified that the money was indeed transferred I went to their Buenos Aires office and received the money minus their commission. They charge 1% commission - so for the US$ 8,000 that I transferred I was only charged US$ 80, not bad compared to Western Union's exorbitant commission charge.
The name of the foreign exchange office is:
FOREXCAMBIO S. A.
Telephone no.: 4010-2000
Address: M. T. De Alvear 540
C1058AAF Capital Federal
Gandolf's information is inaccurate. "Any one who is legit will accept a cashiers check." That is totally wrong. Most people here will not take a cashier's check or a check, money order, traveler's checks, etc. There are exceptions to the rule but take it from me. I deal with real estate transactions every single day. Cash is king here. A few weeks ago I bought a house for around u$s 500,000. Guess what? They only would accept cash (as usual) and they sat and counted every single bill. They will give you back bills that have a rip in it or even if there is a pen mark on the bill.
I am buying on average 1-2 apartments per week. Out of all the millions of dollars worth of apartments I have purchased, many owners had an account in the USA/UK/Europe/Uruguay and they still wanted the cash. Only 1 deal out of dozens they allowed to do it via a wire transfer. The rest wanted cash. In this system of getting cheated, conned and lied to by their government and even the banks, few locals trust anything but cold hard cash. Also, there is a cost of bringing u$s here and they would rather you pay the fee. The 1 time where they allowed a wire transfer it was an American that owned the apartment and an American that was buying the apartment.
There are many money transfer firms throughout town. Just make sure you use a reputable company. I have heard horror stories first hand from people. Even reputable banks here have sometimes taken weeks to get the money. They are playing with the "float" and making the money on the interest. KNOW who you are dealing with. Your u$s 8,000 is relatively a small transaction but still a lot of money to lose if you're using someone that isn't dependable. Most of these money transfer firms charge a set fee like $25 or so plus a % (usually 1% - 1.5%)
There are a lot of bit players in this market. Again, make sure you know who you are dealing with. Do they have an office? Many just are private people arranging these transactions. You are wiring your money to their account in the USA, UK, Switzerland or Frankfurt. Then they will deliver you the cash. Remember in this business, past performance is no guarantee of future results. I know of some people that used a person/company because their local friend told them it was safe and they got burned. You are wiring money into their account and once you do it's a done deal. No cancelling it. You are putting a lot of faith in this person/company so make sure you use a company that is legit and has an office and not just operates with homemade business cards and their cellphone.
Many private banks now won't do business with you unless you come from a referral from one of their clients. The government here is keeping a closer eye on money flowing into the country.
Good luck.
Saint
Moore,
What Saint says is true - it is backed by stories I got told by my B:A. Lawyer, who does a lot of real estate things. He told me that it is not unusual to have bags full of cash on the table of his conference room when papers are signed.
This leads to 2 advices:
- small amounts - and $USD are small in this context - just bring in from the States in cash.
- larger amounts (real estate transactions) - a trustworthy person might be your lawyer. I did it this way once, and there was no commision, on the other hand he did all the contract work and thus got a good fee.
Probably the only persons accepting checks or bank-to-bank transfers in Argentina are businesses who do regular export business, first, because they are forced to do so by regulation, and second because their foreign export customers just won't do it any other way. And these businesses don't only maintain accounts in Argentina.
2 centavos.
El Alemán
[QUOTE=El Aleman]Moore,
Larger amounts (real estate transactions) - a trustworthy person might be your lawyer. I did it this way once, and there was no commision, on the other hand he did all the contract work and thus got a good fee.
El Alemán[/QUOTE]Does this mean you transferred the money directly to your lawyer's account?
Stormy,
I'm not sure when El Aleman made this transaction. Maybe it was before the crash? Anyway, trust me on this. There is no FREE way of getting u$S here without paying a fee. The only way is carrying it on a plane and bringing it on -- which many, many people do. It's not the safest thing and I don't advise it but it's the one FREE method.
Every u$s that gets transferred to Argentina via a legit bank gets "pesofied". They don't do it at the current exchange rate either. Example, if you are transferring you$s 100,000 here and the exchange rate is 3:1 they might give you 2.95: 1. So instead of 300,000 pesos you would get 295,000 pesos. So even with people like El Aleman that thought they weren't paying a "commission" they were. Maybe the laws changed since he made his transaction. I'm not sure. Even if you have a u$s account here and transfer from your u$s account abroad, they still pesofy it. Keep in mind that almost all real estate transactions here are in u$s so not only does it get pesofied but you have to get it converted back to u$S and guess what? The banks give a not so good rate on that as well. As I mentioned, there is a cost of getting u$s here.
Not only is it "not unusual" for cash to be used in transactions dealing with real estate. It's the norm. Primitive? Yes. But it's how things are done here. As I've mentioned to my consulting clients on a daily basis. Have a good attorney and make sure you can fully communicate with him. I've seen a lot of good people cheated and conned. Usually by a lawyer. In every instance, the person could not speak fluent Spanish and the lawyer couldn't speak English. Would you use an attorney that didn't speak English on an all cash deal in the USA? Exactly! Why would you do it in another country? Don't let the fact that you are in a foreign country change the proper way to do business. I'm in no way suggesting an attorney that speaks English won't try to con you but at least you can fully communicate with your attorney. This is not like the USA where things are orderly. Order here is NOT the norm. Make sure you know exactly what is going on.
Make sure that with any financial transaction that takes place you don't lose your common sense. It shouldn't matter whether you are doing business in the USA, UK, Argentina or Africa. Use your same common sense. The safest methods I have used are legitimate money transfer firms.
Here in Argentina on all cash deals there is very little to no room for errors. If this post scares some sense into you that is a good thing. Those that do a lot of business here in Argentina or that have lived here before or are natives know what I'm talking about. I can give you example after example of the horrible way the locals do business and the people that got cheated by not having good people that know what they are doing. I'm sure I pay my attorneys, accountants, etc. more than the average professional here in Argentina but guess what? They were all educated in the USA or the UK and they are the best in the business. It's helped me avoid problems or getting conned.
Good luck.
Saint
Saint,
Thanks for the information and clarification. I have long been out of intentions to move any large sums to Argentina in any fashion, though I know others do and only wish them the best of luck. Your advice is particularly useful here and I think will serve some of the crowd well.
Saint,
My transaction was end of 2003, after the crash. And, one thing is particular, while the price was negotiated in Dollars, the seller needed pesos, because he intended to use the money out of the transaction to pay tax debits. So, the "pesofication" was not THAT deal.
And, my Lawyer is a native speaker of my own language. The same goes for my accountant / tax consultant. I agree, don't do anything with people you cannot communicate without any problems.
El Alemán
This post is not intended to insult anyone on the board. Yesterday I went to FOREXCAMBIO S. A. With my spanish speaking girlfriend and explained I wanted to get 5g USD here in Argentina. The gentleman behind the counter gave me a page of instructions which were sorely lacking in specifics. Anyhow, he explains that I transfer the money from my bank in USA to their account in USA. I then call him a few days later to confirm that the money has arrived and I go to their office and retrieve my money. I mention the 1% commission and he verbally confirms - but it is not in writing. The paper says their account is with American Express Centurion bank in Salt Lake City. My first alarm goes off because another member said they used Bank of America. My second alarm goes off when I do not get any sort of customer ID. Finally I notice the bank account number is 710.319. There are no account numbers broken up with a point in the USA. Alarms are going off all over the place.
This morning I spend a few pesos calling the bank located in Salt Lake City, Utah. I had confirmed via the internet that the routing number is correct, but the pleasant, service oriented USA bank employee (what a change of pace) is kind enough to talk to me even though I am not a customer. I explain how the system works when living here in Argentina on how to receive dollars from the USA. She says there are no accounts in the name of Forexcambio and the number for the account I have makes no sense. I agree. She puts me on hold to talk with someone else.
When she returns she advises that they located the account by dropping the point and just entering 710319. She also explains that the account is held by the American Express Centurion Bank in New York City - not in Utah.
I wonder what would have happened to my money if I had simply wired it to Salt Lake City? Overall a very unprofessional experience. After living here for almost three years I can clearly state that the financial aspect of Argentina is a joke. Just about everything else is perfect for me.
Tonight I spoke with a neighbor who is a retired physician. He recommened a cambio called Giovinazzo located on Sariemento and gave me the name of a contact. I will post the results soon.
The strange money transfer process requires a leap of faith, unless you want to go to a regular bank. If you go to a regular bank, they may not want to deal with you unless you are a resident. Assuming you find one that will deal with you, and I could not do so, then by all reports you will effectively pay high commissions (by changing dollars into and then back out of Pesos, at not so great rates) You will do a lot of paperwork. And (worst of all, as it could jeopardize your deal) you sometimes have to wait and wait and wait for the money to "hit" your account.
Per Saint's research, most people who go with traditional banks end up regretting it.
If you go the informal route, you will end up wiring money to some numbered account outside Argentina. Yick. You will find it bizarre, because it is bizarre. But you can greatly reduce risk by going in under the express recommendation of your real estate broker or of someone like Saint, and if big money is involved (like for a home purchase) by making sure that the money people know you have a good lawyer watching everything.
If your broker sets up the money transfer, risk of theft logically goes way down. Think it through: even if the private banker / money mover is not honest, and I have no reason to suspect that, it would be smarter for them to rip off someone who just walked in than someone who was referred by a regular source of business doing hundreds of transactions per year, particularly if there is a lawyer looking over things.
HF
Hobby Fan is exactly correct. It's a leap of faith if you don't know who you are dealing with. I talk to people every week that had problems with the company they used or were given a wrong account number, wrong corporation name, wrong city or bank name. Remember that once your bank sends the money it for the most part can't be undone. Go with people that not only a friend has told you they used and had no problems but someone that has been around a very long time.
The problem these days is it's getting harder and harder to become a client at a private bank. The really solid ones don't want any new clients unless you get referred by a VIP client.
This is one of the most frustrating things about Argentina. The level of difficulty getting $US here.
[QUOTE=Saint].
The problem these days is it's getting harder and harder to become a client at a private bank. The really solid ones don't want any new clients unless you get referred by a VIP client.
This is one of the most frustrating things about Argentina. The level of difficulty getting $US here.[/QUOTE]Anyone want to explain why this is? I thought doing business was what banking was all about and that Argentine banks would be glad to get $US.
Dave
Ok. I can see that most people have really problems to transfer money to Argentina from other countries.
I think that the best choice for transferring funds (I'm argentinian and was the some problems) is:
First: Talk with your bank, to pre degree its operation.
Second: Come to Argentina with some travelers check (yes yes I know the fee no way) to can have some of cash into Argentina.
Three: Go to the office of your bank. (if your are customer of WAMU, your loose.) Talk with some people into de branch of your bank in Argentina and say that you want to transfer many from your account in your country.
The comision or fees. Here. Are some times high. Why? I don't know.
I have tranfered from accounts banks from USA an Spain, and no have problems (if you pay the fees). The thing is that you must say that this tranfer found is for Family Help, this type of tranfer founds have a less fee from the table of fees. If you tranfer alot of mony to do some operation like buy a apartment, car, etc. etc. etc. You must pay high fees.
Is better if you walk with $USD into your pocket, and not $USD if you show $US from your pocket, the people like take a advantage.
Is good if you know to stay here for a long time (more than 6 months) that you open a local account bank (savings account is very good) and the money that you tranfer from your account bank put into there (if is a lot at money, not put all them) and walk on the street with a local debit card.
Sorry for my poor english but I have only aproved ESOL Level be:)