2002-2004 WSG Reports

[Saint]

Like Dickhead, I had my worst day in Buenos Aires. Maybe my life. I consider myself to be very careful. I have traveled around the world and I am aware what´s going on around me. Anyway, today I was with a client that is closing on an apartment tomorrow. We had lunch at La Strada in Recoleta Village. It was a nice day so we sat outside near the entrance of the restaurant. I had my laptop computer with me as usual in my case along with several other important documents. I had it no more than 1.5 feet from me. It was literally right next to me. I had my client sitting across from me so he could see anyone that was approaching the table. Anyway, I got several calls throughout the lunch. One moment my laptop is there and the next it is gone. Neither of us could believe what happened because neither of us saw anything.

It´s clear this was done by a professional thief. There was no one suspicious around me. I remember reading Dickhead´s post about getting ripped off at the Mansion and I had an eery feeling that wasn´t good. I guess it was a bad omen because a few hours after reading it I was also a victim. Only I didn´t have just a few hundred pesos. My life was on that u$s 3,700 laptop. All my personal stuff, business stuff, photos, etc. I also had my digital camera cord along with many important legal documents.

I´m really in shock and I´d give a thousand us$ just to see a video of how they got it. No one in the restaurant saw anything and I don´t remember anyone suspicious walking by us. I heard nothing. It is really amazing. Be very very very careful with your personal belongings. I´d honestly rather have been robbed at gunpoint so at least I know how it happened. Anyway, my life will be a mess the next few days trying to get a laptop, changing keys and getting the personal documents again that I had.

Oh well. Nothing I can do. I filed a police report and waited in line a long time. Probably one of my worst days of my life.

[Saint]

No way getting a DNI is easy at all. I don't know of the places Andres listed but I doubt they will be easy to get a DNI for an American. I'll try to find out more information but getting a DNI here is a pain in the ass.

[Andres]

Yesterday and today, Clarin published a couple of articles related to getting a DNI.

I post the URLs so you can find out (and practice your Spanish).

http://old.clarin.com/diario/2004/12...ad/s-03015.htm

http://old.clarin.com/diario/2004/12...ad/s-03104.htm

http://old.clarin.com/diario/2004/12...ad/s-03802.htm

The first one deal with the "fast track" for Argentinians. You can get it if you are a National in just 2 weeks, but you have to makea line for 6-8 hours before the opening (that means spending all night outdoors making the line). It seems that the main problem is getting a recently issued birth certificate.

The second one mentions that foreigners can run their errand at Chacabuco 1260 (in San Telmo), an office devoted exclusively to non-Argentinians. There is also an office for "urgent errands" at Diagonal Norte 689 (you get it the same day), but may be only for Argentinians.

The third one announces the opening of new public offices to speed up the process.

My advice for those of you intending to get their DNI: Find out at Chacabuco 1260 what documents you need and what stamps to get (Secretary of State, The Hague Convention stamp, US Embassy, Argentine Foreign Office or Consulate, etc)(Since US and Argentina signed the Hague convention, the Hague Convention stamp should suffice, but ask anyway). Then, when you come back to BA, go immediately to Chacabuco St office (the same day, if possible) to start the errand. And wait...

Hope this helps,

Andres

[Saint]

Andres is partially correct. In some cases, as I already mentioned, you do NOT need a DNI. I don't have one and I still managed to open one. You do need a DNI to have a checking account though. The problem is that getting a DNI is very difficult and time consuming. You have a better and easier chance opening a bank account than getting a DNI.

The government is painfully slow here and as Andres pointed out before, they take all of January off so I'm not sure if I'll get it by January. Probably February now. Bummer.

[Andres]

In order to open a bank account, it is necessary to have a DNI (National ID). That ID let the bank check your credit history through Veraz (a local credit history service, similar to Experian).

Once you get your DNI, it is very easy to open a savings account. After 3 years, it is possible to have a checking account and a credit card (banks usually request a copy of the last 3 presentation-formularies to the federal tax agency AFIP, formularies similar to the IRS's 1040).

Be aware that having a credit card is necessary but inconvenient as well. My Argentine VISA credit card charges me ar$200 of service fee per year ($65) and every statement printout is charged ar$8 (not to mention that interests go up to 35% per year). However, I need it to pay for some services when I'm there (HMOs, ISPs, etc).

On the other hand, I barely wrote checks in the last years. I guess that many stores are reluctant to take them, and for paying periodic fees (condominum expenditures, monthly newspaper fees, etc) it is possible to do direct debit on a bank or by cash.

Hope this helps,

Andres

[El Aleman]

Kiko,

Saint is correct.

I do own property in Argentina, and I am partner in an Argentinean company, and do not have a personal bank account. As Saint says, you are running against a wall. I tried - in the company of my Argentinean business partner, so language was not an issue - with 2 banks, one just plain refused referring to some obscure law (that does not exist), and the other required me to have a steady source of income within Argentina - and that's not normally the case in the startup phase of a business.

hope that helps

El Alemán

[Saint]

Kiko,

It IS possible but not probable. It took a lot of jumping through hoops. I do have a peso account and a u$s dollar account which is very convenient. Try going to a bank and asking but everyone else I know here hasn't managed to open one. Wanting to buy property here has nothing to do with you opening an account here. It's all in who you know and your account status with that bank in the USA or the UK. Basically, they aren't going to lift a finger to help you unless you are a VIP client of their offshore bank. I don't just mean you have multiple accounts. I mean, you are in their elite level clientele and you have a personal banking manager. If you don't have that kind of account, you can pretty much forget it.

Opening an account is difficult here. I know people that lived here for a few years and still don't have one. I got one within 2 weeks though due to my relationship with my bank and when I told them of my plans to purchase a high level of properties but more importantly do a lot of business with them (buy property insurance through them, use them for my corporate checking account, corporate savings account, etc.)

[Kiko69]

Gentlemen,

I checked this thread back and forth and could not find any useful information on how to open a local bank account as a foreigner.

This might be a stupid question but if I want to buy property and do not have a bank account to pay for expenses etc. Is it actually possible to open a bank account without wanting to buy property ??? Please , someone help me out here.

Many thanks!

Saludos,

Kiko

[Lexton]

Here's the post I made on this 09-27-04 in General Info.
Quote:
For General Custer, and others who have hit the 500 peso at one time ATM limit. I went around on this issue with a new card I got. I called VISA and my bank.

It appears the problem is in the network in Argentina. Probably a hangover from the old parity days $US500=$ar500. My bank wasn't even SEEING the transaction, it was rejected before it got there. I tried various Argentine banks, so it is not the Argentine bank. So I assume some networks have the problem. So calling your bank doesn't help, there is nothing that they can do. VISA was no help.

I have ATM cards that allow more than 500 pesos at a time, and others with the 500 peso limit. So try all your cards.
End Quote.

Once From the Top: There are 3 different limits involved here.
1. Some machines, like the ones I used at bank ITÁU, have a limit of 1000 pesos(or some other #) per TRANSACTION.
2. Your bank has a limit PER DAY.
3. Some NETWORKS have a limit of 500 pesos per TRANSACTION, as above. The network involved is tied to the card, not the bank in Argentina, it seems. It is not LINK.
4. On the per TRANSACTION limits, it is not even necessary to remove your card from the machine before initiating another withdrawal.
5. You obviously cannot exceed any of the 3 limits with a single transaction.

[Jackpot]

I have a Citi Bank account in california. Each time I visit the citibank at
Alvear and Callao I up the withdrawal amount.

Yesterday I got 1790 pesos. This is way better than the 500 peso limit at other ATMs

If you want to save transaction fees, go for the max you can get. I'm not sure what HSBC, Bank of Boston, or others do down here.

BTW there is a wallet store at Suipacha 866 that carries a great selection of
¨hidden wallets¨ ie. under the shirt wallets. Its on the same block as Excedra.

Jackpot.

[HappyGoLucky]

Ditto with Saint. I've always been able to withdraw $1400 pesos from any of the Banco Nacion ATMs in Buenos Aires. In fact, there's one in the EZE airport around the corner from the information kiosk right before exiting the building. I always take my first withdrawl there.

[Saint]

Yossarian99,

Nope. The lady was wrong in the USA. You´ll find that the USA reps usually don´t know what they are talking about when it has to do with banking in Argentina. (Sounds like more of the case of her wanting you to open a new account). I said it before and I´ll say it again. There is NO free way to get U$S here without some kind of fee unless you´re bringing it in yourself on the plane. The laws here are such that they will convert it to pesos first. Trust me, I´ve explored MANY options to get U$S here as cheap as possible. Call her again and ask her to explain to you in detail how you would do it and I bet she tells you that she was wrong.

I also found Cachorro´s comment of not being able to easily find an ATM machine that will dispense up to 1,000 pesos to be wrong. It all depends on your bank in your home country and NOT the ATM machine in Buenos Aires. There might be exceptions but I am able to get the equivalent of u$s 500 per day or roughly 1,460 pesos at one time every single day. I do it at ATM machines all over town. Some of the banks I use are Citibank (multiple locations), Banco Rio (multiple locations), Societe General (multiple locations), HSBC (multiple locations), Banco Nacion (multiple locations) and many other ATMs throughout the city. I´ve found it depends on your bank at home and not the individual ATM machines in most cases.

All my ATM cards have a u$s 500/day limit but as I posted countless times before, 1/2 of them only let me take out 500 pesos each time and the rest let me take the equivalent or about 1,470 pesos at one time right now. If you're moving down here, open an netbank type account which is great for transactions and withdrawals.

[Stormy]

To Yossarian99

I have a Citibank account in the US and regularly use Citibank ATMs in BA for Argentine Pesos with no charge. I have never been able to get US dollars through Citibank in BA.

Stormy

[Cachorro]

As well as fees, it's worth considering the spread on the exchange rate.

For example, PayPal is low on fees, but takes a 2.5% margin on the interbank rate. It would work out less expensive with a bank that charges a fee per transaction, and a margin of 1.5%.

In general there are two kinds of limits on ATM withdrawals
1) Your home bank's daily limit, and
2) The per transaction limit of the local ATM you use.

You can find machines in BsAs with a transaction limit of 1000 pesos, but they are not so common. The ATM just after customs at EZE arrivals will give you 1000, for example. And any other ATM from the same bank (Banco de la Nacion, was it?). I'm sorry I don't remember the names too well.

Also it can be useful to look beyond the name of the bank and look at the name of the network they use. There are two common ones (Banelco and Link?) One was no good with my foreign Visa cards (Banelco, I think). The other one was fine.

[Bacchus9]

One more thing - there were no fees for withdrawing cash and the conversion rate of dollars to pesos looked to be the best available on the dates I withdrew.

I spoke to a branch employee here in California yesterday and she told me if I opened a Citibank account in the US, I can withdraw up to US$1,000 per day from a Citibank in Argentina without having to pay fees.

Can anyone confirm this?

I am asking because I know local laws prevent bank branches across different countries from "comingling" funds and accounts, eventhough they are the same company. It helps the governments to better control their money supply.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Yos