Buying Viagra & Cialis

[Sportsman]

So you can just walk in to a Farmacity and they will sell you Cialis without a Rx? If so, that is great.

That's true for most Farmacity, but not all. If one does ask for a Rx, just go to the next one.

[Stylito1]

So you can just walk in to a Farmacity and they will sell you Cialis without a Rx?

If so, that is great.

[Wild Walleye]

Just for information and comparison, I just bought 10 x 100g Magnus brand sildenafil, product of Argentina, in Asuncion Paraguay for 145,000GS, equivalent to AR119pesos and $31US. Over the counter in a small farmacia in the microceter, cash, no problems, no questions.

Just a little footnote but did you know that the 2007 Ig Nobel Prize in Aviation went to Patricia V. Agostino, Santiago A. Plano and Diego A. Golombek of Universidad Nacional de Quilmes, Argentina, for their discovery that Viagra aids jet lag recovery in hamsters?

How the f--k do they know if the hamsters were jet lagged? Did they put them on a bunch of redeye flights? The follow on research is on hamster boners.

[Gabar]

Just for information and comparison, I just bought 10 x 100g Magnus brand sildenafil, product of Argentina, in Asuncion Paraguay for 145,000GS, equivalent to AR119 pesos and $31US. Over the counter in a small farmacia in the microceter, cash, no problems, no questions.

[Wild Walleye]

With all due respect to WT69 (aka Chazz R.) And Miami Bob, there are some very straight forward reasons why these drugs cost more in the US. Also, there are huge differences (at least on the business issues) between branded, patent-protected drugs, legitimate generics and generic versions of protected drugs.

The short answer (if you don't want to read this whole post) is that the US consumer is paying for all of the research and development for new drugs and is therefore subsidizing the sale of pharmaceuticals all over the world.

I will leave out an analysis of the differential of costs associated with litigation between the USA and other countries. I can assure you that the fact that the US is the most litigious country on earth materially increases the cost of your drugs at the counter.

If we lived in a vacuum, drugs would cost the same everywhere. We don't.

Evil drug companies need to make a profit on their investments as well as on their manufacturing and distribution operations. They also have to make back the money that they lose on R & D efforts that do not result in profitable drugs. If they cannot, they will cease to invest in new drugs and treatments.

According to one study -- by the Tufts Center for the Study of Drug Development (the firms included in their survey represent 42% of all pharmaceutical R & D expenditures in the U. S. -- it can cost more than US$800 million to bring a new drug to market (including covering the cost of failed R & D efforts and the time value of money at 9%) Other estimates put the number at more than $1B, to bring a new drug to market. US drug companies invest more than US$40B per year in research and development.

Drug companies file for patents as soon as they think that they are on to something (I. E. Well before pre-clinical trials which come before phase -I, II & III trials) It takes on average 90.3 months (7.25 years) from the start of clinical trials to marketing approval. That does not include all of the time (usually many years) it actually took to develop the drug before Phase I trials start (since you can't just whip something up at the beginning of Phase-I trials) Patents (issued after 1989, I. E. Covered by TRIPS) are for 20 years. An extension of 5 years can be obtained for certain processes or products but not for all of the claims covered by the patent. Depending upon the time it took from patent issuance to selling the product in the market, the evil drug company may only have between 8-12 years of patent protection, which by the way only protects them in the USA. While they also file for IP protection elsewhere around the world, it is much harder to protect intellectual property (I. E. The recipe for the drug) and collect the premiums on the sale of those drugs overseas. Additionally, drug companies selling their own products in foreign markets have to be aware of what the local consumer can pay. Therefore, the drug companies have to recoup their investment from the US market.

Considering the preceding, evil drug companies have approximately 8-12 years to make back the US$800 million -- in addition to making a profit on the manufacturing and distribution of the drug -- before they are competing against their own product (made and sold by others) in the marketplace.

If it costs US$2 (excluding R & D) to make a pill and get it to the pharmacy shelf (ingredients, manufacturing and distribution) and they sell it for US$4, the drug company nets US$2/ pill for manufacturing and distributing the product. Now add to that the US$800 million (plus interest going forward) divided by the number of pills they expect to sell over the remaining life of the patent. There you have the differential between legitimate versions of patent-protected drugs from one market to another.

Why does sandoz viagra in argentina sell for 10% of the price of the brand in the usa? Corruption?

Nope. It is the comment above about pricing relative to the market in which they are selling their product.

Interference in the free market system by allowing patents to extend beyond the rest of the world's rules.

Protecting intellectual property is not interference in the market system, it is necessary in order to protect those who dare invest in developing new and innovative things. Why should the government be able to arbitrarily say that you can only own the thing you invented for 20 years? This is like saying that although you bought your house and paid the mortgage and taxes for 20 years, you now have to open the doors and let anybody come in and live with you. Why is Elvis' estate still getting royalties on recordings made 50 years ago? He didn't invest the equivalent of US$800 million into those records. Copyrights last for the life of the author plus 70 years.

Why does the law make it illegal for the government program, medicare, to negociate bulk purchases at a discount?

I don't think that the government should be able to force private industry to provide goods and services at a loss (The Fifth Amendment of the Constitution, part of the Bill of Rights seems to back me up on this) However, that is exactly what medicare does to doctors (So much for the Fifth Amendment) Therefore, I have to guess that the reason why drug companies are excluded from this situation is probably due to 'lobbying' the right people. But that is a good thing. Allowing the government to set prices will have a dramatic, negative affect on R & D.

Generics made by major multinational manufacturers like sandoz or cipla

And sold outside the USA are probably safe, however, the contents are not subject to FDA regulation. Irrespective of regulation, reputable firms are likely to be responsible considering the potential damage to their businesses if they produce a dangerous knock-off.

My brother buys his blood pressure meds mail order from New Zealand because the brand he needs is not on his carrier's formulary list. At Walmart the drug is 3x's the price as the brand is sold in New Zealand. Why? I don't want to make this forum political or I will have to stop reading it so I'd better stop here.

Your brother is in fact benefiting from the fact that US consumers are paying for the R & D and subsidizing foreign and US consumers buying offshore. It is great to live in a free country where one can avail himself of such opportunities.

However, as more an more people avail themselves of this option, the industry and regulations will change in the face of this practice. In the event this practice is seen as 'bad' more enforcement of regulations will be brought to bear, in order to prevent it. If this practice is seen as 'good' (tough to see how the FDA gets on board with the practice since it cuts them out of the loop) then regulations will relax and the evil drug companies will need to alter their business plans in order to compensate for lost revenue (think of what 'free' downloading of 'protected' material has done to the music industry)

While there certainly is a potential political thread to be spawn from this subject, my points are merely a factually explanation of why there is such a huge differential between drugs in the US and elsewhere.

[WorldTravel69]

It is the same with Lipitor.

Without Health Care coverage it costs US$100 for 30 pills. With coverage it costs US$25.

In B. A. It costs 16-20p for 30 pills. It is the Same Lipitor.

The Drug industry says they want to make sure you get the real product.

As the radio ad goes, "There is Only One Lipitor, there is no Generic".

What thieves!

Why does sandoz viagra in argentina sell for 10% of the price of the brand in the usa? Corruption?

Stupidity? Interference in the free market system by allowing patents to extend beyond the rest of the world's rules. Why does the law make it illegal for the government program, medicare, to negotiate bulk purchases at a discount?

[Miami Bob]

The USA patents may differ from patents in other places in the world. In argentina viagra has been off patent for years.

I generally buy Sandoz Labs generic in Argentina. Sandoz is a large well respected Swiss lab with factories in Brazil. It is approxomately 75cents us for 50 50mg tabs in a box of 50. I am trying the Cipla becuase folks buy it in BA and say it seems to be the same thing. Cipla sells a number of generic products in the usa. Why does sandoz viagra in argentina sell for 10% of the price of the brand in the usa? Corruption?

Stupidity? Interference in the free market system by allowing patents to extend beyond the rest of the world's rules. Why does the law make it illegal for the government program, medicare, to negociate bulk purchases at a discount?

I seriously dout that sid's dick will fall off from consuming.

Generics made by major multinational manufacturers like sandoz or cipla.

My brother buys his blood pressure meds mail order from New Zealand because the brand he needs is not on his carrier's formulary list. At Walmart the drug is 3x's the price as the brand is sold in New Zealand. Why? I don't want to make this forum political or I will have to stop reading it so I'd better stop here.

[Wild Walleye]

And have you taken their generic brand Cialis before (wanna make sure it won't make my dick fall off, or any other of those common side effects)

Technically, there is no such thing as generic Cialis. Ely Lilly, the manufacturer of Cialis (Tadalafil) is protected by patent through 2016. That said, there are plenty of companies offering 'generic cialis' for sale. The problem here, as with any counterfeit drugs, is that they could be fake or dangerous. There is no guarantee that you will get anything similar to Cialis. That said, it is entirely possible that outside the US, you might be able to find reasonable facsimiles on the market (that violate Lilly's patent) that provide similar performance (I will spare you the discussion of how that impacts drug prices in the USA)

For US$5-US$8/20mg tablet in Bs As you can by Eli Lilly brand Cialis (unless it counterfeit--this is Argentina after all)

[Miami Bob]

Alternatiove sources for folks who don't reside in South America.

[Blindpacemaker]

http://www.getcanadiandrugs.com

Cialis generic is us$5-6 in 20mg depending on #

Made by Cipla, a large Indian multinational sells in 180 countries. Also makes viagra generic via / Canada is us$2.08 per 100mg in 80 pack delivered to usa. A little weaker than brand, but the price is right from a large legit manufacturer.

You mean you get them shipped to BA, from Canada, via England? How long does delivery take? And have you taken their generic brand Cialis before (wanna make sure it won't make my dick fall off, or any other of those common side effects)

Cheers for the info.

BP

[Travlnman]

Regarding bringing Viagra back into the US, it is illegal. Any drug that you bring back that you do not have a prescription for is illegal. Of course you can risk it but for me it is not worth it. What they will do is unknown, but I would suspect you would be subject to a fine.

Regarding the purchase price, I can recall reading some time ago that you should ask for Sandoz. It is generic Viagra and the price is significantly different. Pills come in 50 mg. The price I paid was about $30.00 USD for 100 tablets. That makes it about 30 cents a tablet.

[WorldTravel69]

If I remember correctly Cialis was a few dollars cheaper in B. A. than in the U. S.

[Miami Bob]

http://www.getcanadiandrugs.com

Cialis generic is us$5-6 in 20mg depending on #

Made by Cipla, a large Indian multinational sells in 180 countries. Also makes viagra generic via / Canada is us$2.08 per 100mg in 80 pack delivered to usa. A little weaker than brand, but the price is right from a large legit manufacturer.

[Blindpacemaker]

Cheers seaman, I read some pretty wild things about generic brand drugs where the patent is still valid so think ill stick with paying ridiculous amounts for the real C - but from what I can tell V still has its patent so the generic V's may not be entirely safe? Damn I want that patent to run out soon haha.

[Seaman]

The only place where I have seen generic C is in Asucion. Here in BsAs you will find only the original, which goes for about $50/ pill according to the last information I have heard. As far as I know this has to do with the patent which is still valid on C. However in PY they copy all the vitamins

If you know somebody who goes to Asucion soon they can try to buy it there and bring it back for you.