Argentine Bank Accounts

[Don B]

I don't know about now but 20 years ago it was impossible. I had a contract as Project Director for a US company that had a project in Argentina. Originally for six months but it lasted a year. When I was setting up shop in Bs As I went to about a half dozen banks to open a checking account but was turned down, at that time I was told it was necessary to own property of a certain value for a certain period of time in order to qualify. The next week back in the US I went to my bank and spoke with the President, he suggested I set up a seperate checking account that would be used to receive deposits from my customer and to make ATM withdrawls in Bs As. I had approval to withdraw up to $2000 dollars a day. At that time the peso and dollar were 1 to 1 and you could take your pick. I would draw dollars so as not to have an exchange fee at my bank. I averaged $10,000 a month for 12 months at no cost. Everytime I took money I would thank the Argentine bank for providing this service free of charge to me.

Don B.

[Emeritus]

Hello I am trying to open a bank account.

I do not have the necessary papers they usually ask for.. DNI, utility bill.

Does anyone know of a bank branch that would open account without the papers usually required.

Thanks for your time and information.

I am a USA citizen.

[Argento]

Man, there are a million things both wrong and right in this article. If I have the desire, I'll expand upon them later. I will say this. I just withdrew 10K USD in the last week. I did it as follows:

- Only 2000 USD at a time (which is too much)

- 3 different branches.

- Branches were on busy streets and immediately got into a taxi afterwards. Had the taxi drop me off 3 blocks from my house.

- Kept the money separate from everything else of value, including ATM cards and IDs in case I was robbed.

Paranoia? No. Common sense in Argentina. The poor woman mentioned in this article did not use common sense.

Try doing that for a sustantial transaction, U$ 100k and up if a good house is involved. Not viable. I constantly am changing substantial sums in my business and I use a private money changer who gives a home service. But they get knocked off and one courier was killed a while back. He ended up in a gun fight and lost his life and the money. There is no simple way. I lost 20,000 pesos a few years back and the police didn't even record it as a crime. There is no one way.

Argento

[Schmoj]

Mongers-

Interesting article on the reality of life in Argentina:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100906/...anking_attacks

Man, there are a million things both wrong and right in this article. If I have the desire, I'll expand upon them later. I will say this. I just withdrew 10K USD in the last week. I did it as follows:

- Only 2000 USD at a time (which is too much)

- 3 different branches.

- Branches were on busy streets and immediately got into a taxi afterwards. Had the taxi drop me off 3 blocks from my house.

- Kept the money separate from everything else of value, including ATM cards and IDs in case I was robbed.

Paranoia? No. Common sense in Argentina. The poor woman mentioned in this article did not use common sense.

[Rock Harders]

Mongers,

Interesting article on the reality of life in Argentina:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100906/...anking_attacks

[Facundo]

Here's an article from Clarin 29-Dec.-2009:

http://www.clarin.com/diario/2009/12...m-02109748.htm

I believe Argentine personal asset tax is 0.5%/ year on worldwide assets over USD 100,000 though I'd need that confirmed. In that case you could, if necessary, declare decent savings abroad and pay zero to minimal tax.

Moore I could be wrong but I blieve the tax statement AFIP sends to every registered tax payer at the end of each year mentions that taxes are to be paid on the cumulative value of items that exceed AR$130,000 or about US$33,000 (this includes such items as bank accounts, investments, and I believe autos) I'll also see if I can dig up the exact number.

[Facundo]

Thomaso, this is only for credit / debit cards issued in Argentina. It doesn't impact you.

By the way, Argentina has been scrambling to sign agreements with different countries to find Argentine tax evaders. I believe last month they signed an agreement with, of all the places, San Marino. Argentines have billions of dollars stashed around the world. Last week it was disclosed that 25% of all bank accounts in Uruguay belong to Argentines. AFIP wants to start collecting back taxes and fines. The country needs the money to continue its massive expenditures.

[Moore]

Can you post a link for this new process from AFIP?

Here's an article from Clarin 29-Dec-2009:

http://www.clarin.com/diario/2009/12...m-02109748.htm

I believe Argentine personal asset tax is 0.5%/year on worldwide assets over USD 100,000 though I'd need that confirmed. In that case you could, if necessary, declare decent savings abroad and pay zero to minimal tax.

[Thomaso276]

AFIP, the taxing authority of Argentina, the equivalent of the IRS of the United States, instituted or refined older banking / credit card reporting regulations such that it will impact anyone, (including foreigners like ourselves) who has a debit card bank account and / or a credit card issued in Argentina and spends AR$3,000 or more per month.

Each bank must send monthly reports to the AFIP of anyone who has spent more than AR$3,000 using his bank account and or credit card. This information will be cross referenced with earnings reports on record. If there are discrepancies between what the person spends monthly from his bank / credit cards than the AFIP can conduct a "lifestyle audit". For example, the person's work records show he earns AR$2,500 per month but spends AR$4,000 per month than the AFIP will most likely contact the person to show why the discrepancies.

How can these newly adopted regulations impact foreigners like members of this board?

Let's say "Foreigner1" works or has some earnings in Argentina of AR$6,000 pesos but spends much more than that from his bank account (using a debit card) credit card. If he is audited he will be accused, most likely of not declaring all of his work income and he would most likely be hit with back taxes, interest and a fine. However, this can get very tricky. Let's say Foreigner1 declares he is using money he has back home to subsidize his meager wages. The AFIP can turn around and say he has violated the law by not declaring monies he has abroad and of not paying taxes on earnings from such monies. Argentina taxes, like the United States, world-wide income.

Let's take a look at "Foreigner2" who doesn't have any income in Argentina and spends at least or more than AR$3,000 per month from his bank account / credit cards. This foreigner in the eyes of AFIP doesn't have any income but is spending a hell of a lot of money from his accounts. This foreigner will most likely be accused of tax evasion for not declaring his world-wide income.

Interesting side note, the legal powers of AFIP have more statutory import than the accused individual. If AFIP goes to a judge with just a piece of paper with what it things the individual owes the judge has to accept it as fact. If I as an individual file a complaint against someone who owes me money I cannot just hand the judge a piece of paper with some numbers on it. No matter how much evidence I bring forth I have to fight legally to prove the person owes me the money. In the case of the AFIP they don't have to show any evidence. The judge has to accept the AFIP numbers and you have to prove you are innocent.

So far this month I have spent less than AR$3.000 from my account and in the future I will continue to spend less than AR$3,000 monthly. I will use cash to buy many things during the month. In the end, I think, argentines will do the same, the only god Argentines fear is the god AFIP, and the economy will suffer because they will buy items with cash and most likely not pay the IVA.

I think the noose around the foreigner's neck who has residency is being tightened more than a little with these AFIP regulations and stricter Visa regulations.

Saludos,

Is this only for debit / credit cards issued in Argentina? I use Citi Bank here with a card issued in USA to pull more than 3000 pesos monthly.

Can you post a link for this new process from AFIP?

[Member #3320]

Facundo,

Thank you for the heads up!

It was very useful in deciding future actions with regard to Argentina.

[El Queso]

Facundo, thanks for that heads up!

I have been thinking about declaring a monotributo for myself to help get around some of these things. Monotributo is a monthly contribution based on your estimated average yearly earnings (for those who don't know)

As I understand it, monotributo will allow me to create invoices to send out of the country, and on top of paying a 3% export tax for that, I can also be allowed to have money sent directly to my local account, legally, that matches the amount of invoices I've sent. This is how I now pay my programmers, in fact, who got their monotributo and the ability to export and receive money internationally setup with an accountant's help.

What I like about this is the relatively (for Argentina! Low cost of being more legal (at least, it allows me to legally bring in more money to spend through my Argentine bank account) At $144K per year, the new monthly contributions for "other services" (other than "Locacion de servicios) are $685 pesos, or about 6%. On top of that is the 3% export tax, and then of course the banks take something like $50 US per transaction I believe it is. So about a 10% tax on the money you bring in to be legal with your local bank account is not terrible.

Remember, I wouldn't be bringing all the money I make in to the country, so I wouldn't be paying a total tax of 10% on all my earnings, but it would allow me to have access to more money locally and still live punder the radar of AFIP (most likely!

The actual limit on "Other Services" monotributo is $300K pesos a year, but the contribution is $2880 pesos a month. Obviously the Argentinos think that the "rich" should be penalized - that's almost 12% alone, plus the export taxes to bring it to 15%! Beware Democrats in the States! If Argentina does it, it can't be right!

But the $144K limit seems alright to have roughly $11,000 pesos a month to spend on your lifestyle out of your Argentine bank legally.

BTW - I completely agree with you that this is something that can't really help Argentina in the long run.

[Facundo]

AFIP, the taxing authority of Argentina, the equivalent of the IRS of the United States, instituted or refined older banking / credit card reporting regulations such that it will impact anyone, (including foreigners like ourselves) who has a debit card bank account and / or a credit card issued in Argentina and spends AR$3,000 or more per month.

Each bank must send monthly reports to the AFIP of anyone who has spent more than AR$3,000 using his bank account and or credit card. This information will be cross referenced with earnings reports on record. If there are discrepancies between what the person spends monthly from his bank / credit cards than the AFIP can conduct a "lifestyle audit". For example, the person's work records show he earns AR$2,500 per month but spends AR$4,000 per month than the AFIP will most likely contact the person to show why the discrepancies.

How can these newly adopted regulations impact foreigners like members of this board?

Let's say "Foreigner1" works or has some earnings in Argentina of AR$6,000 pesos but spends much more than that from his bank account (using a debit card) credit card. If he is audited he will be accused, most likely of not declaring all of his work income and he would most likely be hit with back taxes, interest and a fine. However, this can get very tricky. Let's say Foreigner1 declares he is using money he has back home to subsidize his meager wages. The AFIP can turn around and say he has violated the law by not declaring monies he has abroad and of not paying taxes on earnings from such monies. Argentina taxes, like the United States, world-wide income.

Let's take a look at "Foreigner2" who doesn't have any income in Argentina and spends at least or more than AR$3,000 per month from his bank account / credit cards. This foreigner in the eyes of AFIP doesn't have any income but is spending a hell of a lot of money from his accounts. This foreigner will most likely be accused of tax evasion for not declaring his world-wide income.

Interesting side note, the legal powers of AFIP have more statutory import than the accused individual. If AFIP goes to a judge with just a piece of paper with what it things the individual owes the judge has to accept it as fact. If I as an individual file a complaint against someone who owes me money I cannot just hand the judge a piece of paper with some numbers on it. No matter how much evidence I bring forth I have to fight legally to prove the person owes me the money. In the case of the AFIP they don't have to show any evidence. The judge has to accept the AFIP numbers and you have to prove you are innocent.

So far this month I have spent less than AR$3.000 from my account and in the future I will continue to spend less than AR$3,000 monthly. I will use cash to buy many things during the month. In the end, I think, argentines will do the same, the only god Argentines fear is the god AFIP, and the economy will suffer because they will buy items with cash and most likely not pay the IVA.

I think the noose around the foreigner's neck who has residency is being tightened more than a little with these AFIP regulations and stricter Visa regulations.

Saludos,

[Jackson]

Greetings everyone,

I've move the discussion regarding Argentina residency to the thread titled "Argentina Residency".

http://www.argentinaprivate.com/foru...ead.php?t=1951

I've move the discussion regarding Argentina residency to a new thread titled "Investing in Argentina".

http://www.argentinaprivate.com/foru...ead.php?t=5969

Thanks,

Jackson

[Member #3320]

Good day Mr Jackson,

I am curious to know, whether you did end up opening a bank account in BA. And if yes, how did you fare? And whether your initial fears about banking in Argentina were justified?

I am asking this because I am thinking on similar lines and any advise from a senior member like you would be very useful in helping me arrive on a conclusion.

Thanks,

Captain

Greetings everyone,

As a Argentine resident I have been considering opening a bank account here in BA with the idea of using it (after the cursory 6 month probationary period) to wire transfer money to myself from my accounts in the USA. However, in conversation with several Argentinos on this subject I have been advised that the Argentine tax authorities (AFIP) automatically withhold 30% of all incoming wire transfers from international sources, the purpose for said withholding to act as a guarantee against any future tax liability I may incur here in Argentina. Ostensibly, these withheld funds would be returned to me at some future point if no such tax liability materialized.

Unfortunately, my friends are not what I'd call financially savvy individuals, leaving me to seek additional insight into the subject.

Does anyone have any knowledge about or experience with this?

Thanks,

Jackson

[Member #3320]

I'm in agreement with you on your observation on the inherent risks associated with having bank accounts in Argentina. Let me tell you how I do make a little money from having a bank account.

First of all I simplify my life by having an argentine bank account because I can pay all of my bills on-line. It is horribly boring having to stand in line at some "PagoFacil" or "RapiPago". All my local bills appear on line and I just pay them before their do dates.

Secondly, I never keep more than $6000 pesos in the account.

Thirdly, since I pay for just about all my things on line or through my Bank Issued Debit Card, the bank returns to me a portion of the IVA, about $200 pesos per month.

And finally, most banks have promotions if you shop at certain stores. I use my Debit Card for the majority of my purchases and discounts of anywhere between $200 and 300 pesos monthly appear automatically in my account.

So, per year the bank returns to me about $5000 pesos just by having an account with monthly fees of about $25 pesos. Also, my risk is anywhere from $1000-6000 pesos (the minimum and maximum I keep in the account) but my life is a lot simpler.

Saludos

I agree with Facundo. I would probably do the same as him, if I was living full time in Argentina. Its so easy to pay bills online than stand in the never ending serpentine lines to pay for "pago facil". If money is indeed lost, probability being 1/10 or worse, so what the heck. What is life without some risks / some gambles / some rush of adrenalin as the ecnomy tumbles!! I always like the convenience of online payments, debit cards / credit cards, which comes with bank accounts. Its invaluable.

Saludos