Argentine Bank Accounts

[Facundo]

Mongers,

First of all, I recommend that no one ever open a bank account in Argentina, period, with no exceptions. Every single Argentine bank (even the banks with international names, HSBC, Citibank, etc. Are in the red and will collapse and again seize deposits the next time the Argentine government defaults on their bonds. This is because the Argentine government has forced the banks to buy their junk bonds, and to maintain greater than 50% of their "assets" in the form of these bonds, which in reality are not assets, but massive liabilities. The peso is depreciating on a daily basis and that combined with a minimum 2% MONTHLY inflation combined with almost no interest paid by the banks on accounts on top of the account maintainance fees means that you lose money everyday it is in the bank. The banks do allow dollar denominated accounts but only a complete idiot would keep any dollars in an Argentine bank, because once the meltdown occurs nobody will be allowed to withdraw any dollars, only toilet paper pesos. I manage a corporate bank account here only because a certain percentage of my inflows can be received only by bank deposit, otherwise I would never deal with the banks.

Suerte,

Rock Harders

I'm in agreement with you on your observation on the inherent risks associated with having bank accounts in Argentina. Let me tell you how I do make a little money from having a bank account.

First of all I simplify my life by having an argentine bank account because I can pay all of my bills on-line. It is horribly boring having to stand in line at some "PagoFacil" or "RapiPago". All my local bills appear on line and I just pay them before their do dates.

Secondly, I never keep more than $6000 pesos in the account.

Thirdly, since I pay for just about all my things on line or through my Bank Issued Debit Card, the bank returns to me a portion of the IVA, about $200 pesos per month.

And finally, most banks have promotions if you shop at certain stores. I use my Debit Card for the majority of my purchases and discounts of anywhere between $200 and 300 pesos monthly appear automatically in my account.

So, per year the bank returns to me about $5000 pesos just by having an account with monthly fees of about $25 pesos. Also, my risk is anywhere from $1000-6000 pesos (the minimum and maximum I keep in the account) but my life is a lot simpler.

Saludos

[Rock Harders]

Mongers,

First of all, I recommend that no one ever open a bank account in Argentina, period, with no exceptions. Every single Argentine bank (even the banks with international names, HSBC, Citibank, etc. are in the red and will collapse and again seize deposits the next time the Argentine government defaults on their bonds. This is because the Argentine government has forced the banks to buy their junk bonds, and to maintain greater than 50% of their "assets" in the form of these bonds, which in reality are not assets, but massive liabilities. The peso is depreciating on a daily basis and that combined with a minimum 2% MONTHLY inflation combined with almost no interest paid by the banks on accounts on top of the account maintainance fees means that you lose money everyday it is in the bank. The banks do allow dollar denominated accounts but only a complete idiot would keep any dollars in an Argentine bank, because once the meltdown occurs nobody will be allowed to withdraw any dollars, only toilet paper pesos. I manage a corporate bank account here only because a certain percentage of my inflows can be received only by bank deposit, otherwise I would never deal with the banks.

Suerte,

Rock Harders

[Thomaso276]

Here is a question for all you bank experts out there. With the turmoil in the world's banks it seems that they should be and are reviewing their procedures aqnd practises. Is this the right time for Arg. Banks to join the world and adhere to international banking rules, allowing for more flexibility in transfers, opening accts. Etc.

It is my understanding that Arg. Banks have not signed the international banking treaty, thus resulting in their total independence from their home banks (HSBC here is not a part of the global HSBS when it comes to normal transactions)

Would the government allow this or would they lose control over all the money in the country through the central bank. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to cash a check on your own account here or transfer money without waiting 30 days to see if it arrived?

[Moore]

There was never tax withheld on funds I transferred in nor was there a probationary period.

[Facundo]

I'm not sure if they take it out, or if the liability exists and if it's not paid and then recovered through the system (AFIP) that it could cause problems at some point.

I think I remember someone saying that AFIP couldn't actually touch the money, having given another example that wasn't exactly related but maybe close enough to show that the money couldn't be touched in the account itself, but that the problems might happen at some other point (about which I am certainly vague about what could happen)

Jackson, assuming you can open an account (you don't have the DNI if I recall correctly) then I believe you will have a difficult or frustrating time getting your money credited to your account. Before I got my DNI it would take weeks to get the money, supposedly it had to first be approved by AFIP, into my account, because my account was opened using my passport number. In your case I believe you would use your American passport number which has 9 numbers and the DNI has 8 numbers. With the DNI it's a lot easier, but, really, it's not worth the hassle. By the way, they've never withheld 30%. As I understand it, the majority of the times they holdback 30% has to do with real-estate transactions or there isn't a good justification as to the origin of the money.

Saludos

[El Queso]

I'm not sure if they take it out, or if the liability exists and if it's not paid and then recovered through the system (AFIP) that it could cause problems at some point.

I think I remember someone saying that AFIP couldn't actually touch the money, having given another example that wasn't exactly related but maybe close enough to show that the money couldn't be touched in the account itself, but that the problems might happen at some other point (about which I am certainly vague about what could happen)

[Jackson]

Greetings everyone,

As a Argentine resident I have been considering opening a bank account here in BA with the idea of using it (after the cursory 6 month probationary period) to wire transfer money to myself from my accounts in the USA. However, in conversation with several Argentinos on this subject I have been advised that the Argentine tax authorities (AFIP) automatically withhold 30% of all incoming wire transfers from international sources, the purpose for said withholding to act as a guarantee against any future tax liability I may incur here in Argentina. Ostensibly, these withheld funds would be returned to me at some future point if no such tax liability materialized.

Unfortunately, my friends are not what I'd call financially savvy individuals, leaving me to seek additional insight into the subject.

Does anyone have any knowledge about or experience with this?

Thanks,

Jackson

[Argento]

Most Forum members who live here permanently already know this, so this post is for visitors.

Do not make prior arrangements to pick up money from any bank or financial institution in Argentina. And especially not Banco Frances. And tell no-one of your intentions.

Part of the requirement if you want to negotiate a financial instrument, is to supply your current address in addition to your passport etc.

The scam is that you will be visited by some guys with guns shortly after and robbed and in at least one case this week, shot dead. They will follow you surreptitiously by motorbike or use your address supplied by an associate inside the bank and visit you later. Sometimes both. So if you are in the position of no choice, go in strength and supply a false address. And make a big effort not to be followed by motorbike.

Aqualung will disagree that the scam originates inside the bank and thinks that the thieves are just opportunists hanging around outside. Opportunists with 20 20 x-ray vision.

As an aside, it is next to impossible to catch these buckets of shit and so even when the police attend the robbery, unless someone is hurt or killed, if the victim does not want to spend a day to report the crime and be generally f u c k e d around, it does not appear as a crime. But it happens many times a day here.

Current crime statistics for the Province of Buenos Aires, which includes the majority population of Greater Buenos Aires (more than 10 million) is 4 armed robberies a minute for the past 2 months and doesn't include the majority of robberies of the type mentioned here. No one would have the true figures but try multiplying it by at least double according to my contact in the Federal Police.

A friend's housemaid only takes enough for her bus fares as she has been held up with a hand gun many times, sometimes just for 1 or 2 pesos.

So be aware.

Argento

[Master J]

I have used the American Express location, San Martin / Florida to cash travelers checks and have found them to be helpful and organized in making the transactions. Would they perhaps be a more secure institution to park some funds while in BA? I know they are not as convenient, but do they have any US affiiliation?

[Moore]

Yield on 12-month peso CD at SantanderRio is 15.25%.

5% for the same CD in dollars.

So, is the 15.25% a good deal?

I don't do this sort of thing for a living.

[Moore]

I got some scoop on CitiBank from some CitiBank reps.

They said I need a resident visa and a postal address to open an account.

(However a real estate agent said he knew a manager and could get the account opened for me without these things, which I don't have)

They said they have no international account for Argentina. As someone else mentioned this is probably because this isnt really citibank, just a foreign ripoff or at best an affiliate, on further thought, of course an FDIC insured citibank account wouldnt be accessible from a country that recently stole huge sums from their populace.

Wiring money through the local Citibank branch is only possible with a local citibank account and incurs a.6% fee. Thats not 6% , thats 0.6%

Much better but still too much for doing basically nothing.

My real estate agent recommend Banco Francais (for opening a local account and transferring money, but I didnt get a location or # from him and now I cannot seem to find it in the phone book.

Jj

I'll be surprised if you can open an acct without a residence visa/DNI and postal address. I don't think these rules vary from bank to bank. Possibly the BF bank manager can waive the requirement for a local acct, but losing US$200k to the central bank of Argentina would be a hard way to learn that your acct is invalid and not recognized as a destination for your incoming international transfer. At best the money would be in limbo with the central bank for months before being kicked back to your US acct and at worst you'd lose it all. But good luck and let us know if you can.

Banco Frances website is http://www.bancofrances.com

Since there are probably more Banco Frances branches than McDonalds, it is hard to walk a few blocks in BA without seeing one.

[Jjgoinslow]

I got some scoop on CitiBank from some CitiBank reps.

They said I need a resident visa and a postal address to open an account.

(However a real estate agent said he knew a manager and could get the account opened for me without these things, which I don't have)

They said they have no international account for Argentina. As someone else mentioned this is probably because this isn't really Citibank, just a foreign ripoff or at best an affiliate, on further thought, of course an FDIC insured Citibank account wouldn't be accessible from a country that recently stole huge sums from their populace.

Wiring money through the local Citibank branch is only possible with a local citibank account and incurs a .6% fee. Thats not 6% , that's six tenths of one percent.

Much better, but still too much for doing basically nothing.

My real estate agent recommend Banco Francais (for opening a local account and transferring money, but I didnt get a location or # from him and now I cannot seem to find it in the phone book.

Jj

[Monger514]

We do not have a free-market banking system in the US (see many relevant articles on www.mises.org) but, like so many other things, it is "relatively" more free market than other countries. Witness Argentina.

[Moore]

At this location there is a reception desk open during normal business hours and when I asked if I could make a US dollar deposit to my Citibank USA account I was told I could not.

I will bet that if you ask if can make a withdrawl from your Citibank USA acct that the answer will be the same.

My BankOne ATM/debit card has a PLUS symbol on the back and it has worked at every machine (and vendor when I occasionally use it as a debit) in the world so far even though I don't remember ever seeing a BankOne outside of USA. The ATM fee is 1.50.

The issue is that sometimes you need to get your hands on some real money. For example, you lease an apartment here and have to prepay 24 months rent at once. Lets say thats US$24,000 or the equivalent. You will need a transfer in that case, and I don't think that having a Citi acct in USA means anything here.

[FreddySmith52]

On my 2 visits to BA I have used my Citibank USA Debit Card to withdraw AR pesos from the Citibank ATM on Florida St. 746. Withdrawal is debited directly to my US Citibank account and there are no fees. There are several Citibank ATM machines at this location and what looks to be an actual branch.

Funny thing is that when I look at my account online it shows the description of the transaction as a "non Citibank ATM" whlie all the signage at the location says very boldly CITIBANK.

At this location there is a reception desk open during normal business hours and when I asked if I could make a US dollar deposit to my Citibank USA account I was told I could not.

I only used my Citibank debit card at this location. Never tried any other ATM.