Renting Property

[Moore]

LOL!!! :D

I suspected this guy was a homo instantly upon seeing his attached resume. Arts, AIDS foundations, flowery presentation, the whole nine yards. The only things missing are a rainbow and a pink triangle.

Until seeing his foto, I thought we possibly had the same landlord. My landlord's "rep" is his 78yo mommy.

Maybe this guy does read the board - could he be Goblin? Alex Mirkin is probably Jewish, a fag, a naturalized American, a real estate guru, and somewhat of a humanitarian that would not like us porking 20 dollar whoares in his native Argentina. Any conflicts with Goblin's profile yet? And he had an apparently personal vendetta against you Thomaso, calling you a "dumpster diving little budgetfucker that lives of off table scraps" and "a selfish little prick that has a little prick" among other insults that seemed personal in nature, as if he had met you. The case mounts...

I guess that Alex left Arg in 1976 due the the military coup that year. The dictatorship was especially hard on Jews, though they certainly werent the only people that ditched the country due to it. His naturalized US citizenship could clarify the issue - is Goblin American or not? Yes, but not native born (he also makes occasional writing errors that a native wouldn't).

BTW go after this guy if you can in USA, on principle. Make as much noise as possible thru the business associations etc.

[Thomaso276]

I am going to try and pressure squeeze it out of him. He has alot of ties in USA, including professional license and complaint board through Realtors Association, a friend tells me I can sue him in small claims in INDY via fax, phone. I started last night. If they were poor I would not care, but I really detest people with money who refuses to honor their commitments. I never expect the poor to honor their commitments as they are trying to survive.

Feel free to contact Alex and ask about his rental apartment in BA! I do not think he reads this board becasue last year when he picked up and signed the receipt for his years rent he brought along his life partner, "Bruce" or "Biff" or some other fucking name I cannot remember.

http://www.alexmirkin.com/about.php

[Moore]

Thomaso,

I don't know what kind of action you could take in the USA. Just as I don't know what kind of action you could take in Argentina if something went wrong in the States. Not exactly a seamless system.

Have you guys ever heard the joke about profiting from buying Argentines for what they're worth and selling for what they think theyre worth? In the case of the apartment vacancies, I don't believe that the landlords think they are losing money. Their apartments are listed for what they think they are worth which is apparently more important than having a cash flow. You see the same mentality with real estate sales - apartments listed at $160k and empty for 3 years - the kicker is that the seller has turned down offers of $150k! If you go to a car/motorcycle dealership here you will see "new" 1999 models still in inventory.

[Starfe]

Thats the reason I stopped wearing a cowboy hat, shorts and boots there.
I think the camera was a dead giveaway.

Someday I would like to rent there but not till I learn to dress like a local.

Starfe

[Exon123]

I too have rented apartments in Buenos Aires.

I have found that the market is no where near as strong as purported by some people on this Forum.

As an example on my last trip I picked a place off the Internet threw Reynolds Properties 6 weeks in advance. A furnished one bedroom, the rent was $180 USD per week plus 100% deposit for a two week stay. E-mailing back and forth I was asked to place a deposit of $360 dollars to assure its availablity.

I sent a message back saying no, I'd take my chances since there were litterly hundreds of furnished apartments available on the internet from varrious leasing agency's. Plus the fact that I'd never seen the place. I didn't want to put my money down and lock myself into a deal I couldn't live with.

Well sure enough 6 weeks latter it was still available and waiting for me when my plane landed.

The above apartment was in a good area just off Santa Fe. About 3 peso's down Santa Fe to El Alamo, and yes I'd gladly stay their again.

I've also found that theres much better value if you stay out of Recoleta. It seems to me that housing is 25% higher in Recoleta than in other parts of the city.

Moreover I'm getting tired of being Fucked and treated like a Tourist in Recoleta. The price of most everything in Recoleta is nearly double in comparsion with the rest of the City.

Exon

[Dickhead]

In December my rent came due. I was paying 3 months at a time. I had endured 3 rent increases in 18 months. I told the landlady (a month in advance) that I would stay another six months if she did not raise the rent again. She agreed. Two fucking days before the contract was up she blithely said, "Oh my husband decided we should raise the rent 20%" I moved out, pronto. The place is still vacant four months later. Gee, I guess the free market says it wasn't worth 20% more. Ha ha.

But I did get almost all my deposit back.

[Thomaso276]

I have dealt with three landlords while living here and finally got one who is trying to cheat me out of my damage deposit. The apartment owner is an Argentine / US Citizen from Indianapolis. The landlord's representative - his 80 year old mother - has lied to me since day one.

Simply put they want me to pay for painting, cleaning curtains, moving furniture, etc. She even added bills that occured after she signed off on the apartment inventory and condition over a month ago. She fabricated enough bills after I left the apartment and after she signed off that everything was in order to say I owe them another 300 pesos! What balls some people have.

I am going to attack this problem via the USA as the owner is up there, is a licensed real estate broker, pilar of the community type. When I asked him if he was current with the IRS and AFIP he responded like a true Argentine politician, saying everything was transparent - we'll see.

All this over a lousy 500 dollars!

There is one good thing about all this. I paid 833 dollars a month for the apartment for the past two years. It was very modern, 2BR, 2BA about 85 sq. Meters and the building was excellent. The owners had been moaning about losing money since the rentals market had boomed after I signed a lease two years ago. In fact, evertime I spoke with the mother she moaned about having received 2500 dollars monthly from Nokia as a corporate renter before the crash. What the fuck do I care about what happened 6 years ago and the implication that I have to make it right becasue they lost money. Anyhow, they raised the asking price to 1200 dollars monthly and the place has been empty for two months. Looks like they lost almost 1700 bucks plus the monthly expenses so far.

If anyone looks at an apartment at 1441 Callao be careful.

[TangoManiac]

I used them during my 5 week stay in BA. Yeah I know the site is in english. They had someone who spoke fluent english meet me at the apartment (after I paid too much money for a remise from the airport, yeah I know) He went over the contract with me.

I was expecting to get hassled the day I left for my deposit money back. I didn't at all. I was pretty surprised. They were pretty cool about everything. Since they try to cater to americans I wonder that perhaps they actually don't try to dick everyone around. IMO their prices werent too bad. Seemed ok for me. I'm not representing them or anything, just giving my advice about a company that worked well for me (bc when I came I spoke NO spanish)

TM

[El Perro]

For those of us who have had a difficult time with long term renting in BA, I am passing along to board members some valuable information. I have been very fortunate to become friends with a porteno who has greatly assisted me since I arrived in BA. He is a non practicing attorney who lives in Barrio Norte. A more honest guy you would be hard pressed to find. Specifically he ran interference for me when I was searching for a long term apartment. Made phone calls, set up appointments, and accompanied me to look at a variety of places. Without him, the process would have been immeasurably more difficult, and tremendously time consuming. While probably not fluent in english, he speaks it relatively well. He has worked at times with some local real estate agencies, but presently, only very part time with one agency. He is looking to make some side money doing for others what he has done for me. If you are interested, pm me, and I can put you in touch with him. I am primarily doing this as a favor to him, and if it helps out some mongers, so much the better. There is no "cut" coming my way whatsoever. I have no idea what he might charge and have not asked. Knowing him as I do, it will be on the ridiculous side of reasonable.

The dog

[Andres]

In other words, people who associate success with hard, honest, efficient work and innovation should seek opportunities outside of Argentina.

For most cases, absolutely.

Andres

[Moore]

There are many, especially big ones with connection to political lobbies.

Telefonica, Telecom, Trenes de Buenos Aires, etc, received HUGE subsidies and increases in prices before taking control of the privatized companies. Also, local companies such as Mastellone Hermanos ("La Serenísima" dairy products brand) could thrive despite of corruption, investing a lot.

If you mean midsize investors with not many political connections and "leverage", you are right.

Andres

In other words, people who associate success with hard, honest, efficient work and innovation should seek opportunities outside of Argentina.

[Andres]

But I know of no foreign investors in Argentina who have created anything for themselves except migraine headaches. Like the Loch Ness monster, a successful foreign businessman probably exists, but his sightings are few and far between.

There are many, especially big ones with connection to political lobbies.

Telefonica, Telecom, Trenes de Buenos Aires, etc, received HUGE subsidies and increases in prices before taking control of the privatized companies. Also, local companies such as Mastellone Hermanos ("La Serenísima" dairy products brand) could thrive despite of corruption, investing a lot.

If you mean midsize investors with not many political connections and "leverage", you are right.

Andres

[Moore]

But the greater the amount of corruption, the greater the opportunity for return - in theory. But I know of no foreign investors in Argentina who have created anything for themselves except migraine headaches. Like the Loch Ness monster, a successful foreign businessman probably exists, but his sightings are few and far between.

Thats generally true. Also if you have some capital then you have something that is very scarce here, which should give you an even greater return premium. But this is a scary place to invest.

Besides, I think Saint already controls the local market.;)

[Rock Harders]

That sounds like the mentality of a trailerpark / slum dweller and / or someone on a steroid rampage. Since justice here is slow / unreliable, leverage your position absolutely (thats why there are garantias) but destroying property accomplishes nothing and is totally uncalled for in any non-criminal situation.

"Trust but verify" or, better yet, Trust but Collateralize.

Moore-

When you are leaving on a flight in a few hours, and do not have time to squat in the apartment until the dispute over a security deposit is resolved, you make contingency plans. Fortunately for both parties, my contingency plan did not need to be put into action.

Suerte,

Dirk Diggler

[Andres]

Very interesting thread. I always learn something from your views of your interactions with Argentinos.

Moore is right on target when he surmises that many Argentineans think that "a person rightfully deserves to be doublecrossed if he allows it to happen". As unvelievable as it sounds, I heard people saying after scaming others "fuck them for doing business with us". That partially explains why managers and owners there prefer to hire an inefficient relative than a potentially efficient unknown. At least, you knw where your relatives live if they misbehave.

Thomaso and Moore are also on target when stating that you should always behave ethically regarding these issues. It's true that you can threaten to destroy the kitchen tiles or the bathroom bowl, for instance, but landlords have always resource to bullies (controlled by the Police) who can evict you fast for an USD 3000 fee.

I like the description of Recoleta Royalty. Several books have been written about the psychology and sociology of these species, perhaps the most famous being "El medio pelo argentino" by Arturo Jauretche.

Of course, that mentality backfires sometime. I remember a friend who had to renew his lease back in 1991 (with Dollar value rocketing) and the landlord wanted full payment in USD explicited in the contract, with no negotiation or "force majeure" clause. That landlord didn't see coming the Peso-Dollar peg of early 1992 and 40% inflation in Dollars for that year, so by mid 1992 she was receiving a very low income for that rent. Briefly, she shot her own foot for being too greedy.

The issue of renting has a LONG history down there. From the abuse of landlords at the beginning of the 20th century, society shifted to the other extreme by the 1950s when the Peron administration enacted the "Renting Act", which froze rent values to the point that after a few years some landlords received as rent the equivalent of a pack of cigarettes.

That issue scared investors and owners, which preferred to rent their places under other legal frames. Have you ever wondered why there are still so many "family hotels" in some neighborhoods? You can easily evict tenants under that frame, although these hotels are in fact pension houses.

It would be nice to have a "Renting Administration" for speedy trreatment of rental-related claims, as many North American cities have. That would allow the protection of both landlords and tenants rights, while limiting their leeway also. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening soon because each part believes that rules would be done to screw them and benefit the other.

Hope this helps,

Andres