Argentine Economy

[Rock Harders]

Badboy,

Not to take sides in the battle for supremacy between you and "Sidney", but giving a laundry lists of sources and factual information about a corruption scandal that happened between the UK and Saudi Arabia has absolutely nothing to do with the Argentine Economy or the current scandal involving the $800k. Everyone knows the USA and the UK have been propping up the House of Saud ever since WWII in order to get them to keep oil supplies flowing, and in the case of the USA, keep selling that oil only in dollars.

The relevant point in regards to this scandal and its effect on the Argentina economy is that it just further reinforces the vibe that has become accepted worldwide: the Argentine society and political institutions are so corrupt to the point of saturation that they can never be trusted. This is a critical election year and this scandal will not be swept under the carpet; in order to look less like a banana republic, the Argentine judicial system will investigate this matter and someone will be caught with dirty hands. This scandal, along with the Felisa Miceli unexplained cash in the bathroom affair, is a revealing display of the disgracefulness of the Argentine system. These scandals do have a detrimental effect on the economy; demand for Argentine bonds will decrease (they welched once and they will do it again) the Pesos will inevitably slide (4-1 coming to a Casa de Cambio near you) which will make it harder for the government to service its existing debt and wipe out the purchasing power of the people.

Suerte,

Dirk Diggler

[BadMan]

Thursday, 7 June 2007, 18:09 GMT 19:09 UK

A Saudi prince who negotiated a £40bn arms deal between Britain and Saudi Arabia received secret payments for over a decade, a BBC probe has found.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6728773.stm

Bad

[BadMan]

Do you really think I give a shit what you think Sidney? You can think what you want, I at least contribute and serious contributing mongers know and respect this, you are a joke here, even your friends understand that all you do is come here and post pure politically motivated rants about your hate for Latin American political figures.

You are like a small child that puts his fingers in his ears to block out the truth, Am I supposed to take someone like that seriously? Be real, your political commentary is more of the same, about the only actual quotes you have ever provided is either the Miami Herald or the BA Herald, and nothing more, no factual anything.

And at the end of the day, when I post link after link of data detailing my " twisted " facts, you act like a bigger child and start name calling.

Why don't you take your ass back to the DR, or did the great neo liberal DR policies actually create something far worse than Argentina? You came back with your tail between your legs just like I said you would. Oh and BTW, I am still waiting for the price to go down below $50.

ROFFLMMFAO.

Bad.

PS, please continue

[BadMan]

In October 2004, the BBC's Money Program broadcast an in-depth story, including allegations in interviews with Edward Cunningham and another former insider, about the way BAE Systems alleged to have paid bribes to Prince Turki bin Nasser and ran a secret £60 million slush fund in relation to the Al Yamamah deal.[24] Most of the money was alleged to have been spent through a front company called Robert Lee International Limited. The SFO was also investigating BAE's relationship with Travellers World Limited.[25] There also exists an internal five page report from 1996 detailing the fraud allegations.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3712770.stm

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall make a Statement which relates to the investigation by the Serious Fraud Office into BAE Systems plc concerning payments made in relation to the Al Yamamah programme with Saudi Arabia. This afternoon, the Serious Fraud Office has announced that it is discontinuing this investigation. Its statement says:

"The Director of the Serious Fraud Office has decided to discontinue the investigation into the affairs of BAe Systems plc as far as they relate to the Al Yamamah defence contract. This decision has been taken following representations that have been made both to the Attorney General and the Director concerning the need to safeguard national and international security. It has been necessary to balance the need to maintain the rule of law against the wider public interest. No weight has been given to commercial interests or to the national economic interest".

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/lords/...-12-14c.1711.2 Lord Goldsmith (Attorney General, Law Officers' Department) Link to this | Hansard source

[BadMan]

Monday October 13, 2003

The Guardian.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/armstrade/...061671,00.html

[BadMan]

Here's a HUGE scandal that was swept under the carpet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Yamamah

These are DIRECT quotes, no doctoring or " twisting ", just the same home grown corruption patriotic nationals seem to either condone or ignore in their home countries yet try to condemn in countries that don't share their political agenda.

On 1 December The Daily Telegraph ran a front page headline suggesting that Saudi Arabia had given the UK ten days to suspend the Serious Fraud Office investigation into BAE / Saudi Arabian transactions or they would take the deal to France "

On 14 December 2006, the Attorney General Lord Goldsmith announced that the investigation was being discontinued. The 15-strong team had been ordered to turn in their files two days before. The statement in the House of Lords read:

" The Director of the Serious Fraud Office has decided to discontinue the investigation into the affairs of BAE Systems plc as far as they relate to the Al Yamamah defence contract. This decision has been taken following representations that have been made both to the Attorney General and the Director concerning the need to safeguard national and international security. It has been necessary to balance the need to maintain the rule of law against the wider public interest. "

" On 26 June 2007 BAE announced that the United States Department of Justice had launched its own investigation into Al Yamamah. It specifically was looking into allegations that a US bank had been used to funnel payments to Prince Bandar. "

" In a newspaper interview, Robert Wardle, head of the Serious Fraud Office, acknowledged that the decision to terminate the investigation may have damaged "the reputation of the UK as a place which is determined to stamp out corruption. "

[BadMan]

Only because it agrees with your politics. You can concede all you want, but you have no proof or facts to back it up. Because if what you said where true, those multi billion dollar BAE / Saudi Arabia scandals would have also had a detrimental effect on the UK's economy, and on the contrary those billion dollar bribes actually helped BAE aquire about 86 billion dollars in past contracts and an additional 80 billion in the future. The reader can believe what they want, all they have to do is a quick google search on the BAE scandal that was NOT detrimental to the UK economy and in fact benefited both the corporations and the government.

So with all due respect, you are full of shit, and as long as biased political opinions muddle up your posts, you and others can and will be challenged. Because I didn't once hear you chide Exon when he totally went off topic talking about US drug dealers and the DEA. Maybe because his general political views coincide with yours.

But whatever, keep it up,.

Bad

Bad, ''there you go again''-''resorting to name calling''! You can't stay on subject And calling me ''full of shit''. Where in hell, does that put you? What happened in the UK has no relevence in AR, no matter how many ''twisted facts'' you contrive! Is that a threat Bad?--''But whatever, keep it up,''

Where in that entire post was I name calling? You are flat out lying right now, and now I am " name calling " by calling you a LIAR.

Where are the twisted facts? If you have any evidence that anything I posted was in some way, shape, or form twisted please post it, otherwise you are continuing to talk out of your ass. I didn't twist anything and the " reader " can google it and find the exact same data.

As usual, you excuse the corruption from political parties you accept and condemn percieved corruption from those political parties you disagree with, which is your right. But I call it like it is and if you don't like it, that's tough.

And as far as Exon is concerned, give me a break, you are the biggest fool here, and if you think I am foolish, that's great, am I supposed to care? Sure buddy, you do nothing but pimp women onto other forum members and pathetically try to convince everyone you are some investment genius that brags about seeing 800k cash.

Miss me with that shit,

Bad

[BadMan]

So now all you are doing is exposing your political bias, which is fine but don't try to mask it as anything else. I twisted NOTHING, If you have any evidence of that, post it.

[BadMan]

References.

1. "Arms sales fuel BAe's profits", BBC News, 1999-02-25. Retrieved on 2006-08-19.

2. O'Connell, Dominic. "BAE cashes in on £40bn Arab jet deal", The Sunday Times, News International, 2006-08-20. Retrieved on 2006-08-22.

3. Welcome to Project AY. BAE Systems. Retrieved on 2006-12-18.

4. Gardner, Charles [1981]. British Aircraft Corporation. A history by Charles Gardner. Be. T. Batsford Ltd, 224-249. ISBN 0-7134-3815-0.

5. Bloom, Bridget, Johns, Richard. "A deal in a different dimension; The UK-Saudi arms sale", Financial Times, The Financial Times, 1986-02-19, p. 16. Retrieved on 2007-02-26.

6. Memorandum of Undestaning for the provision of equipment and services for the Royal Saudi Air Force (PDF) (September 1985) Retrieved on 2006-11-02.

7. Mottram, R (1985-09-25) Briefing for the Prime Minister's meeting with Prince Sultan (PDF) Retrieved on 2006-11-02.

8. Adam Ingram (18 November 2003) Defence - Saudi Arabia. Hansard.

9. "BAE confirms £5bn Eurofighter sale to Saudi Arabia", The Times, 2006-08-19. Retrieved on 2006-08-19.

10. "Saudi Arabia Signs Typhoon Deal", Air Forces Monthly, February 2006, pp. 4-5. Retrieved on 2006-08-22.

11. Steiner, Rupert. "BAE clinches new £2.5bn Tornado deal with Saudis", The Business, 2006-09-10. Retrieved on 2006-09-12.

12. "Saudi Arabia considers Tornado fighter deal", Financial Times, The Financial Times Limited, 1984-07-11, p. 6. Retrieved on 2006-12-16.

13. Fairhill, David. "Saudis agree 'in principle' to 3 billion pound plane deal: Israelis angered by Tornado sale 'arms race escalation'", Financial Times, The Financial Times Limited, 1985-09-16. Retrieved on 2006-12-16.

14. Dobbin, Ben. "Britain signs arms deal with Saudi Arabia", Associated Press. Retrieved on 2006-12-16.

15. Donne, Michael. "BAe Hands Over First Part Of Saudi Aircraft Order", Financial Times, The Financial Times Limited, 1987-08-12, p. 6. Retrieved on 2006-12-16.

16. Fairhill, David. "Britain signs 6 billion pounds Saudi arms contract", The Guardian, Guardian Newspapers Limited, 1988-07-09. Retrieved on 2006-12-18.

17. Rob Evans, David Leigh. "Millions risked on BAE contract", The Guardian, 27 November 2003. Retrieved on 2006-12-16.

18. David Leigh, Rob Evans. "£1bn BAE guarantee 'foolish', says MP", The Guardian, 15 December 2004. Retrieved on 2006-12-16.

19. Submission from the Campaign Against Arms Trade to the International Development Committee's Inquiry into corruption. Campaign Against Arms Trade (September 2000) Retrieved on 2006-08-19.

20. "Timeline: BAE corruption probe", BBC News, 15 December 2006. Retrieved on 2006-12-15.

21. Adam Ingram (17 November 2003) Defence - Saudi Arabia. Hansard. Retrieved on 2006-12-15.

22. Geoff Hoon (25 May 2004) Al Yamamah Contracts. Hansard. Retrieved on 2006-12-15.

23. David Leigh, Rob Evans. "MoD chief in fraud cover-up row", The Guardian, 13 October 2003. Retrieved on 2006-12-15.

24. Michael Robinson. "BBC lifts the lid on secret BAE slush fund", BBC Money Programme, 4 October 2004. Retrieved on 2006-12-15.

25. "BAE subject of fraud investigation", The Herald, Scottish Media Newspapers Limited, 2004-11-18, p. 23. Retrieved on 2006-12-17.

26. David Leigh. "Fraud Office looks again at BAE", The Guardian, 12 September 2003. Retrieved on 2006-12-16.

27. "SFO to investigate BAE contracts", BBC News, 3 November 2006. Retrieved on 2006-12-15.

28. "BAE included in SFO investigation", BBC News, 17 November 2006. Retrieved on 2006-12-15.

29. a be c David Leigh, Rob Evans. "Brutal politics lesson for corruption investigators", The Guardian, 16 December 2006. Retrieved on 2006-12-16.

30. a be Leigh, David, Evans, Rob. "Parliamentary auditor hampers police inquiry into arms deal", The Guardian, Guardian Newspapers Ltd. 2006-07-25. Retrieved on 2006-08-12.

31. Harry Cohen (7 February 2002) Business of the House. Retrieved on 2006-12-15.

32. Alan Williams (13 February 2002) Public Accounts Commission - Al-Yamamah Arms Agreement. Hansard. Retrieved on 2006-12-15.

33. "Defence firms fear Saudi fall-out", 4 December 2006. Retrieved on 2006-12-15.

34. "Unions confirm BAE job loss fears", 29 November 2006. Retrieved on 2006-12-15.

35. a be Hope, Christopher. "Halt inquiry or we cancel Eurofighters", The Daily Telegraph, Telegraph Media Group Limited, 2006-12-01. Retrieved on 2006-12-01.

36. Bowell, James; Fidler Stephen, Hollinger, Peggy; Khalaf, Roula; Peel, Michael. "BAE investors take flight at potential loss of Eurofighter deal.", Financial Times, The Financial Times Limited, 2006-11-28, p. 3. Retrieved on 2006-12-01.

37. Lord Goldsmith (15 December 2006) BAE Systems: Al Yamamah Contract. Hansard. Retrieved on 2006-12-15.

38. "Blair defends Saudi probe ruling", BBC News, 15 December 2006. Retrieved on 2006-12-15.

39. "Criticism of ditched Saudi probe", BBC News, 15 December 2006. Retrieved on 2006-12-15.

40. OECD (14 March 2007) OECD decision to re-open investigation. OECD. Retrieved on 2007-04-27.

41. "Watchdog chief warns Saudi arms probe 'must be re-opened'", Evening Standard, 17 January 2007.

42. Pfeifer, Sylvia, Helen Power. "'I like shooting things'", Daily Telegraph, 2007-07-15.

43. Saudi prince 'received arms cash', BBC, 7 June 2007

44. Associated Press. "BAE says U. S. Is investigating dealings with Saudi Arabia", International Herald Tribune, 2007-06-26.

[BundaLover]

Sorry but I can't remember if I was arguing with Exon or Badboy.

Anyway Argento there are certain major large cities in the US that have certain court approved injunctions for search and seizure due to a demonstrated pattern of organized criminal activity. For example Oakland California police had the right to stop and INSPECT and seize what-ever materials including the car if they 'believed' the vechicle or occupants had intention of 'drug dealing or solicitation of prostution'. Note this is far more encompassing then the 'reasonable suspision' or in 'plain view' guidelines normally in place in California. The story gets interesting when one reads in the newspaper that they pulled over someone for an illegal u-turn and upon inspection found 3 oz of marijana AND they confiscate the car which is owned by the 17 year old driver's father or mother. The car is typically sold at auction by the time the owners consult with a lawyer. Lots of fun and sad stories about this. As you can imagine justice is not 100% accurate.

Other than these special zones. Police are not involved with the feds. For example SF Ca is a 'santuary' city. The SF Police will NOT call INS when they arrest an illegal. They are PROHIBBITED BY LOCAL LAW (board of supervisors) from doing so. I am not a law enforcment guy but there are really HARD lines of separation in California (County by county- Southern Cal is more conservative) from federal agencies. Your state may be normal.

We have a huge problem with illegal drivers or should I say drivers here for long term that drive to work, drive their kids to school and do not have CA drivers lic. Is it better to include them in the system or ignore them? Very tough questions. The CHP behaves differently then the San Mateo police for example.

Exon. 800kUS $ is about what you spent on your last fishing trip isnt it?

I'm poor. I am luck to see 80 pesos every second Sunday, then I give it to 1707 Santa Fe apt #3.

[Exon123]

BadBoy why don't you give it up and quit making a "Fool" out yourself.

Exon

[BadMan]

I will concede this series of scandals has a deleterious effect on the AR economy.

Only because it agrees with your politics. You can concede all you want, but you have no proof or facts to back it up. Because if what you said where true, those multi billion dollar BAE / Saudi Arabia scandals would have also had a detrimental effect on the UK's economy, and on the contrary those billion dollar bribes actually helped BAE aquire about 86 billion dollars in past contracts and an additional 80 billion in the future. The reader can believe what they want, all they have to do is a quick google search on the BAE scandal that was NOT detrimental to the UK economy and in fact benefited both the corporations and the government.

So with all due respect, you are full of shit, and as long as biased political opinions muddle up your posts, you and others can and will be challenged. Because I didn't once hear you chide Exon when he totally went off topic talking about US drug dealers and the DEA. Maybe because his general political views coincide with yours.

But whatever, keep it up,.

Bad

[BadMan]

Badboy13, please explain.

The better question would be what does this entire conversation have to do with Argentine Economy, or what do your personal feelings about Kirchner or Chavez have to do with anything.

I at least post facts.

Bad

[BadMan]

Mr Wilson, the "Bag Man" has got a big problem. Once the incendent was published in the New York Times the Fed's have no choice but to jump all over it. Wilson's problem starts with he can't return home to Miami. Soon as he goes threw pass port control "Bingo" they've got him. Next he'll have to "Roll Over" on what the real deal is so he does less time. Exon

Unless there is REAL money and serious corruption involved, then, according to the The Director of the Serious Fraud Office and the Attorney General of the UK:

"The need to safeguard national and international security. It has been necessary to balance the need to maintain the rule of law against the wider public interest."

In other words, fuck the citizens, discontinue investigations, censure any incriminating findings, bury the story, and change the subject.

In regards to the money, you can carry any amount of legal money you want just as long as you can account for it's origins and your intentions with regards to it.

End of story, talking about Drug Dealers is seriously getting off topic, but at least we know you have an imagination Ex.

Bad

[Exon123]

This was the point where Exon quit doing that for a living.

ROTFLMAO!

Jackson

Sotra like the pot calling the kettle Black, right Jackson.

Exon