Argentine Economy

[BadMan]

Exon, All you are doing is talking out of your ass, PERIOD. Or let me guess, you do this " shit " for a living also. Don't you have a new hooker to pimp on AP?

I will say this again, having large amounts of cash on hand is not a criminal offense. In each case you mentioned, for someone to get 10 years in federal pen they would have had to have done alot more than have money that they couldn't account for.

And all you did was repeat what I said, WORST case scenario, they confiscate the money and tell you you can pick it up once you provide just cause for having the money. That's it. If you get harassed by some crooked ass police, just call your lawyer. End of story.

And as Dirk just very perceptively stated, In Latin America, Cash Is King, Wilson was coming down to buy property, buy a business, and so on. Who knows who cares. This is old news.

Bad.

Argento & BadBoy your both full of Shit.

But heres two cases I know of personally. Both guys had spotless criminal records, nothing more than minor traffic violations.

First case, the guy, a "Bagman" was driving up I-5 in Northern California. He's pulled over by the highway patrol and they find $750,000 in cash in his car. He couldn't explain where it came from and he got 10 years in a Federal slammer.

The second case, a Drug Dealer, again with a spotless record. He was never with in a mile of his Drugs. Always paid someone else to do his dirty work. Was driving down I-10 not all that far from the Mexican border. He's pulled over and they find $45,000 in cash in his car. He got 3 1/2 years with the Fed's.

Its OK to have as much money in cash as you can carry what ever the amount. But You'd better have a "God Damned" good reason the Fed's are going to buy before they let you walk.

Thomaso276 said it best.

The deal stinks, the Feds know it and they'll stop at nothing to find out where "The bodies are buried"

Exon

[Rock Harders]

Mongers-

I have got to agree with Exon here, possession of an inordinate amount of cash is not a crime of in itself, however, it IS probable cause for a law enforcement official to move forward with further investigation. In the United States today there is simply no legitimate reason to be carrying that kind of cash (six figures) as the banking system is so secure and every merchant (with few exceptions) accepts credit and debit cards. The only people carrying that sort of cash are 9 times out of 10 likely to be drug dealers, mobsters, or someone planning serious tax evasion. The United States today is just not a cash economy much anymore, its an electronic transfer / payment economy. At the very least being caught with six figures in cash would get the IRS on your ass to verify that you reported the amount as income.

In Latin America, however, and especially Argentina, this is a completely different story as Cash Is King, electronic payments / transfers are unreliable and fee-ridden, the banks are thieves, and everybody has got to have a serious stash of dollar cash in a safe at home in order to ride out any potential rough times. Even the AFIP people enforcing the tax / monetary laws have to maintain a cash reserve as they can't even trust the very system they operate.

Suerte,

Dirk Diggler

[Exon123]

Argento & BadBoy your both full of Shit.

Course its not illegal to have cash, by law it has to be taken in a transaction. Matter of fact its written on our money, "Good for all debts, Public & Private"

In the case mentioned by Argento, he had a very legimate reason for having a large amount of money, (though I dought it was $800,000) and the Police eventually excepted the reason which could have been verified had they taken the time to do so.

But here's two cases I know of personally. Both guys had spotless criminal records, nothing more than minor traffic violations.

First case, the guy, a "Bagman" was driving up I-5 in Northern California. He's pulled over by the highway patrol and they find $750,000 in cash in his car. He couldn't explain where it came from and he got 10 years in a Federal slammer.

The second case, a Drug Dealer, again with a spotless record. He was never with in a mile of his Drugs. Always paid someone else to do his dirty work. Was driving down I-10 not all that far from the Mexican border. He's pulled over and they find $45,000 in cash in his car. He got 3 1/2 years with the Fed's.

In both cases they "Rolled" for lighter sentences by the way.

So heres what we're arguing about.

Its OK to have as much money in cash as you can carry what ever the amount. But You'd better have a "God Damned" good reason the Fed's are going to buy before they let you walk. They love investagating shit like this because its so easy to check and find out where the money came from if the transaction is legal.

Thomaso276 said it best.

It won't take long for the Feds (USA) to look into Wilson. Although the flight started in Caracas he is a US citizen and was in possesion of the cash. Think there will be questions about his overseas accounts (which you must declare) How he got the money? Does the fact the he was in possesion mean he must declare it somewhere in his return and the source? If not he will have to say it belonged to someone else - who will he name?

Some talking points for our USA tax / attorney experts?

They'll look into Wilson big time, on their own, without talking to the Argentines, just because he owns property in the USA. The deal stinks, the Feds know it and they'll stop at nothing to find out where "The bodies are buried"

Exon

[BadMan]

Exon's just acting like a fruit, next thing he will tell us he does this " shit " for a living or that the hooker is just his "good" friend. Give it up Exon and just admit you are wrong, WORST case scenario they confiscate it and tell you you can pick it up once you show just cause for having the cash.

That's all. No big deal, show's over. And BTW the scandal fizzled.

Bad

[Argento]

This absolute bullshit about it being illegal to have cash shows how unwordly some people on this forum are. It is not illegal to have cash. Period.

I am reminded when I see such ill-informed nonsense of an incidence when I was a younger man. In partnership with another 2nd hand dealer, we sold some stock at an auction and were paid out by the auction house immediately after the sale. It being late at night, we were dividing the money up inside my car, outside the local police station, the advantage being good light and good security. We were arrested by an officious young policeman and taken inside the station, where he proudly announced to the duty sargeant, that he had arrested us for having a large sum of money in cash. The sargeant looked bemused, told him to give us back the money and apologized to us and told us we were free to go. As we left, we could hear him telling the young officer, that possession of cash was not illegal, and that it was highly unlikely that we would be divving up money outside a police station if it was stolen. He did not ask us a single question.

So for those who didn't know, money does happen to be legal, whether it is $80 or $800,000. The offence was in not declaring it on entry to Argentina, something you do not have to do in your own country.

[Exon123]

Exon this is patently absurd and you KNOW it. You are telling a board full of Americans nonsense about American law. Why?

Because its the truth, thats why I'm telling it.

One or more Federal Government agencys would be all over it. Possibly Treasury or maybe DEA, but most likely it would be the Criminal Division of the IRS. Not the local county Sheriff or a traffic Cop, the Fed's don't Fuck around.

They'd trace every cent of that money, where it came from and where it was going. They'd go threw your bank accounts using their computers and know every transaction you've ever made no matter what country it was made in or going too. They would find the exact source of the cash and then they'ed prosecute the shit out of you until you rolled on the next guy and then you'd go to jail, after you rolled.

At the very least they'd hang a Income Tax charge on you and you still go to jail for not giving the Fed's their share of what ever scam you were involved in.

Exon

[BundaLover]

Try driving down any road in America get pulled over and let the law enforcement officer find $800,000 in cash in your car and see what happends, Your going to jail. The Fed's would be all over you and they wouldn't quit until they had a Federal "Rap" on you that would put you in "Club Fed" for quite sometime.

Exon

Exon this is patently absurd and you KNOW it. You are telling a board full of Americans nonsense about American law. Why?

[El Perro]

One of the funny but sad sentences is: 'In a news conference late last week, María Luz Rivas Diez, the Argentine attorney general, said Mr. Antonini Wilson had made 12 trips to Argentina in the past year, some for less than a day.'

At minimum, a money laundering operation, and probably with a nice "commission" doled out to the Argie fellows in the know.

[Monger514]

NY Times article on the incident.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/14/wo...YtFpTlBdWmpmwg

[BadMan]

First of all, you are probably right, corruption should be done the american way, a quick wire transfer to a numbered swiss bank account. Though I am sure many suitcases of cash still come in AND out all the time.

Second of all MANY countries do have tight restrictions on taking money out of the country. Take Ukraine for instance, you have to declare anything over 3000 dollars. It is called tax evasion if you don't declare it and as a citizen, good luck taking more than that out. Bottom line is, they don't care what you take out of a country UNLESS it is a lot of undeclared black money or priceless antiquities, drugs and so on. Coming from Eastern Europe, where there is a long list of things you CAN'T take OUT of a country, I find your statement laughable. I am sure all those drug smugglers will be happy to know that.

Again interesting banter, I still find the hysteria over money laundering and or POSSIBLE corruption pretty hypocritical coming from those who taught the world about political and corporate corruption. BTW I have a very good concept of the gravity of this and that is why I am laughing at your fake ass concern. It's 800,000 dollars, you probably couldn't even bribe a supreme court judge for that.

I still think this will blow over pretty quickly, just like all the US scandals in the last 6 years, which dwarf this by comparison, Kirchner is safe. If anything as Thomaso stated the IRS might have questions for the American implicated, but other than that, it is just something to fill your dumbed up news hour with.

Keep up the good work.

Bad

[El Greco]

Bad,

Moreover there's no customs leaving any country, they don't care what you take out, only what you bring in. There's only Immagration when leaving any country.

Exon

Wrong!

There are many countries that will not allow anyone to export cash in excess of a certain amount.

First one being USA.

If I remember correctly the max limit is $10.000 usd.

El Greco

[Thomaso276]

It won't take long for the Feds (USA) to look into Wilson. Although the flight started in Caracas he is a US citizen and was in possesion of the cash. Think there will be questions about his overseas accounts (which you must declare) How he got the money? Does the fact the he was in possesion mean he must declare it somewhere in his return and the source? If not he will have to say it belonged to someone else - who will he name?

Some talking points for our USA tax / attorney experts?

[Exon123]

Again Exon, you miss the simple point. The Argentine law enforcement has already come out and said bringing X amount of dollars into Argentina is NOT a crime, the crime was not declaring it, and the penalty for said crime is just a fine.

Get off the high horse guys how many Saudi Arabian princes fly into the US with suitcases full of money? Nothing new, nothing to see here, Again the fact that we keep trying to pin this on Kirchner somehow shows where this is going. Politically motivaded persecution. The one thing that is reassuring is the local population actually seems to be less hysterical than you guys.

How many heads rolled when plane loads of Saudi Arabian royalty were flown out of the US bypassing customs all together after 911? Business as usual, this will blow over very quickly and as usual there is no direct connection with the higher ups, just a bunch of conjecture and innuendo. But do continue. Quite amusing.

Bad

Bad,

No Saudi Arabian's bring money into this country for any purpose's, they wire transfer it in if need be.

Moreover there's no customs leaving any country, they don't care what you take out, only what you bring in. There's only Immagration when leaving any country.

Finally you have no conception of the gravity of this matter. Yes its probably only a fine to start with but it leads to a mulitude of questions that people go to jail for if someone takes the time to dig for the answers. A prime example of what I'm talking about is the Argentine Federal Judge that recused herself, read below.

"Echegaray claimed in a statement that Novati was already aware of the incident before it became public, but refrained from ordering the arrest of the Venezuelan. As a result, sources close to the judge revealed, she felt that "after aspersions had been cast on her by a public servant, she should step aside so as to not hinder the investigation"

This Woman, a Federal Judge, had insider knowledge of what was going on. She wanted no part of this case to protect herself and her family and thats why she bowed out.

Exon

[BadMan]

Again Exon, you miss the simple point. The Argentine law enforcement has already come out and said bringing X amount of dollars into Argentina is NOT a crime, the crime was not declaring it, and the penalty for said crime is just a fine.

Get off the high horse guys how many Saudi Arabian princes fly into the US with suitcases full of money? Nothing new, nothing to see here, Again the fact that we keep trying to pin this on Kirchner somehow shows where this is going. Politically motivaded persecution. The one thing that is reassuring is the local population actually seems to be less hysterical than you guys.

How many heads rolled when plane loads of Saudi Arabian royalty were flown out of the US bypassing customs all together after 911? Business as usual, this will blow over very quickly and as usual there is no direct connection with the higher ups, just a bunch of conjecture and innuendo. But do continue. Quite amusing.

Bad

[Exon123]

Well this businessman isn't just Venezuelan, as you stated he lives in Miami Florida and is an AMERICAN as in a US citizen, With a surname like Wilson, how could anyone pin him as just a Venezuelan.

And by the way, this isn't a case of smuggling, this is a simple case of not declaring the correct amount of funds at customs. There was no reason to place him under arrest since this infraction only carries a financial penalty.

This is getting blown way out of proportion for political purposes and has therefore become irrelevant.

Bad

A special chartered Jet flight, paid for by the Argentine Government. With three Venezuelan Oil executives and an unknown American with $800,000 US Dollars in cash on board he fails to disclose. And the Argentine Federal Judge assigned to the case recuse's herself and you see nothing wrong.

Try driving down any road in America get pulled over and let the law enforcement officer find $800,000 in cash in your car and see what happends, Your going to jail. The Fed's would be all over you and they wouldn't quit until they had a Federal "Rap" on you that would put you in "Club Fed" for quite sometime.

Exon