Argentine Economy

[Jackson]

"...they don't reduce the prices of the services provided because that is "to lower self esteem."

Another word for "self esteem" is "pride", and it is this very Argentine trait that explains why in Argentina the girls don't generally lower their prices when the night gets old or business is slow.

Thanks,

Jackson

[BadMan]

Only in Argentina would there be a hookers union.

Regards,

BM

Wait. Did that really happen?

It started with a roust in a cafe, some madura finally had enough of paying off the cops so she said no and it grew into a movement. Sort of the Rosa Parks of putas.

[Daddy Rulz]

I never realized there was an association for prostitutes (AMMAR) I don't know what power they have, but just had never heard of it before. I wonder how many chicas know about it and how many are members? The girls I know have never heard of it.

It started with a roust in a cafe, some madura finally had enough of paying off the cops so she said no and it grew into a movement. Sort of the Rosa Parks of putas.

Thanks for the improved translations, I was wondering about that "lower self" I thought maybe it refered to vice itself, like they didn't have to lower prices because the "lower self" of the men would pay.

[El Queso]

I never realized there was an association for prostitutes (AMMAR) I don't know what power they have, but just had never heard of it before. I wonder how many chicas know about it and how many are members? The girls I know have never heard of it.

However, I found an interesting part of the article that Facundo presented:

"¿Será este año más difícil para las trabajadoras sexuales?", preguntó lanacion. Com. "Ya lo es. Estamos muy preocupadas. Es importante que el Gobierno nos atienda y resuelva los problemas que tenemos".

First, the translation that Google provides automatically is not quite right (I found much worse in other places) It kind of doesn't make sense the way it was translated. It said:

"Is this year more difficult for sex workers?" Asked lanacion. Com. "It is. We are very worried. It is important that we provide and the government solve the problems we have."

The translation is more like (unless I'm missing a point of idiom that I don't understand):

"Will this year be more difficult for the sex workers?" asked lanacion. Com. "It already is. We are very worried. It is important that the government attend to us and resolve the problems that we have."

I just find it interesting the attitude that EVERY LEVEL of worker here in Argentina seems to have that the government take care of them.

Towards the end of the article they do talk about price reductions, but up at the top when they were talking about AMMAR, one of the "titulares" of that organization said:

""Las chicas se quedan sin trabajo y las que tienen trabajos tienen salarios miserables", dijo y subrayó que presiona para que no se reduzcan los precios de los servicios prestados porque eso es "bajar la autoestima"."

Translation:

"Girls are left without work and those that have work have miserable salaries," she said and stressed that she pressures that they don't reduce the prices of the services provided because that is "to lower self esteem."

The Google transalation was:

""The girls are left without jobs and those jobs have wages," he said and stressed that no pressure to reduce prices of services provided because it is "lower self"."

Terrible, terrible translation!

However, I find it interesting that the head prostitute is telling prostitutes not to lower their prices because that will lower their self esteem - I wonder what their self esteem is like when their ribs are sticking out and they are begging for food in the street. Those "in power" here, at most levels, just don't understand economics in even a basic way.

At one point there was mention that prostitute wages were pretty good. Why doesn't the head prostitute say something like "the girls should know that their bodies and the economy won't necessarily last forever and we have been urging them for years to save their money for times like these. It is unfortunate that so many will be affected by this because they make better wages in some cases than so-called professionals in this country and a little foresight would have gone a long way to preventing this problem. Because the demand has been so drastically reduced, I think that many of the girls who cannot make it on their own should return to their country of origin and remove some of the burden from Argentina that they will surely cause when they are out of work and sucking on the government tit."

[Exon123]

La Nación today reported that the purchase or "activity of sex in privados fell 50%". There is widespread concern that many of the working girls will fall below th poverty line. The article states this is in keeping with the rest of the economy in Argentina which is also falling.

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?...52277&toi=6262

Interesting artical once its transulated

Exon

Takes a while to load

http://translate.google.com/translat...istory_state0=

[Facundo]

Do the laws of supply and demand even work in Buenos Aires? Seems that there is a ton of supply, not as much demand, yet chica prices are increasing. I don't understand.

Jack

According to the article the prices are going down for lack of business. We'll see if those who raised their prices recently will lower them.

[Jackjack1]

La Nación today reported that the purchase or "activity of sex in privados fell 50%". There is widespread concern that many of the working girls will fall below th poverty line. The article states this is in keeping with the rest of the economy in Argentina which is also falling.

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?...52277&toi=6262

Do the laws of supply and demand even work in Buenos Aires?

Seems that there is a ton of supply, not as much demand, yet chica prices are increasing. I don't understand.

Jack

[Facundo]

La Nación today reported that the purchase or "activity of sex in privados fell 50%". There is widespread concern that many of the working girls will fall below th poverty line. The article states this is in keeping with the rest of the economy in Argentina which is also falling.

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?...52277&toi=6262

[Stan Da Man]

Here's another from the Wall Street Journal, http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123430877724170335.html

The title of this one says its about Latin America and commodities, but the vast majority of the article is about Argentine farmers and the dysfunctional relationship they have with the government in general, and the Kirchners in particular. There's a quote in there from Cristina where she characterizes soybeans as 'little more than a weed.' That is probably the best indication of the contempt she has for farmers and it's astonishing when one considers that 1/10th of the government's revenue came from soybeans via export taxes.

You have to feel a tiny bit for the farmers if they are compared relative to their peers in other nations. The US and Canada subsidize soy bean production while Argentina taxes the heck out of it. I know there are other factors -- including the fact that its much cheaper to grow in Argentina, at least when there's rain -- but it does seem partially true when the writer asserts that the Kirchners are paying for their populist policies on the backs of farmers. Not this year they won't, and that will spell trouble for CFK. Do you think she'll take responsibility for bungling the strike last year, or will she blame it on foreigners? Hmmmmmm. Tough call there, but perhaps the pension seizure offers an initial clue.

[Thomaso276]

And yet, they continue to push raises for unions.

[AllIWantIsLove]

http://www.argentinepost.com/2009/02...-di-tella.html

[Argento]

For anyone interested, there was a decent article in Saturday's Wall Street Journal on Latin America, and the divide between Venezuela, Ecuador and Argentina, on one hand, and Brazil, Chile, Mexico, Columbia, Peru and similar countries on the other. You should be able to access it here: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123336272714535407.html

Great article. Puts a perspective rarely viewed.

Argento

[El Perro]

It's also true -sadly- that part of Argentine culture has to do with "feeling very witty about getting something that's not yours", which explains all the proud "ñoquis" and even the guys who prefer to walk around eating shit in their carritos than "actually working".

Funny, smart and dead on. Let us not forget that the theft "wittiness" is ready and available for your viewing pleasure in many cultures. Ugly IMHO, and usually most appreciated by other thieves or thief wannabees.

[Modelo Vip]

I think it's not a question of "need" because, as was pointed out earlier, Argentina does get a lot of help from foreign countries. The issue is that it doesn't go to the right hands. So you find this strange phenomenon of rew riches living in Palermo or Recoleta, earning huge salaries and then lots and lots of professionals forced to make a living out of $3000 a month.

It's also true -sadly- that part of Argentine culture has to do with "feeling very witty about getting something that's not yours", which explains all the proud "ñoquis" and even the guys who prefer to walk around eating shit in their carritos than "actually working".

[Argento]

Driving back to my house this afternoon, I was struck by the idea of foreign aid and the effect it has on recipient economies. It is popularly believed that Argentina does not receive much foreign aid; and certainly not from mainstream donors. That it is an important and essential component to many countries is undoubtably true. I wonder how many Argentinos would be aware that their country is the highest recipient per capita of foreign aid in the world. And from mainstream European and North American donors. That the aid is given involuntarily might disguise the fact, but a rose by another name still smells as sweet. And the reason for their standard of living, probably the greatest mystery I know, is simply based on extraordinarily large sums of foreign aid.

In a nutshell, the periodic defaults on repayment of capital and interest that are legend in regard to Argentina, are foreign aid by another name. And if you add the appropriation of their citizen's savings to the mix as well as the money saved by rigging inflation figures, thus stealing capital from inflation linked bonds, it is a tidy sum of money. Using very rough estimations of the default amounts of 2002 less the haircut amount returned to the lenders, plus the $23 odd billion appropriated from the superannuation funds, plus a really rough guess at inflation linked interest, my guess is that the total would not be far short of U$150 billion or even possibly more. Amortised over the 7 years since the default, this is the equivalent of more than U$21 billion dollars a year in involuntary foreign aid. In per capita terms, around U$5530.

So the conjuring trick of the Argentine economy is a simple light and mirror trick. Steal the money, call it a default and then, if you are Nestor Kirchner, claim you are an economic guru. "The Economist Pocket World in Figures." 2009 edition, puts Argentina's GDP per person at U$5480. Top it up with much the same in involuntary foreign aid, only an economic dunderhead such as Kirchner could put Argentina at the point of insolvency. But the next involuntary donation is in the oven as we speak. It is already over U$130 billion, with this year's payments of U$40 billion included. And apart from some reluctant bondholders who are to roll-over some U$4 billion of term bonds, totally unfunded. It will be in the oven for a while yet, but when it comes out and Argentina defaults, just remember that it is really only foreign aid.

Argento