Doing business in Argentina

[Capn Rick]

No country where the courts fail in "the protection of the citizens with a fair and balanced manner of interpreting and applying the law" can ever become a respected country.

My wife, an Argy, bought a nice, large apartment in Mar Del Plata in 1990. She has had to sue the management company almost every year for outright theft, falsifying documents, etc. Because the management company family includes politically powerful ex-City Administrators, the documents get "disappeared" from case files, entire case files "disappear", and very seldom ever come to trial. When they do come to trial, my wife wins. Yet, the opponents have had things go their way so long, they repeat the same thieving, dishonest behavior that brought them losses in court in previous cases. And, so it goes, year after year. They never learn and they never quit trying, arrogantly expecting things to go their way again, regardless of prior losses. And, they generally have a 50/50 chance of winning the next time.

My advice: If the business you are considering has a significant element of risk regarding litigation, reconsider. Unless your Argy partner has significant political clout, you should not expect a fair shake. While I hope to avoid offending anyone on this Board, folks need to know of our negative experience.

I have been traveling to Argentina since 1972. I have been living here since we moved here from the US in March 2008. We have not found a good business opportunity here yet. I keep myself busy with some part-time things, mostly in the US, while waiting for some good business opportunities to pop up. Since I have an Argy wife as a business partner and am fluent in Spanish, I have an easier time qualifying for businesses here than those of you who are having to go it alone. So, if I can do a free consulting job, or just do some friendly brainstorming with anyone who needs some help, shoot me a PM and I will try to share my humble experiences.

Our sources of income are from the US. We have family and extended family in the US that help us with our business needs there. A lot of what Saint had to say we had implemented because we have come to the same conclusions he has. We have been thinking about these issues since the 1970s.

One example: Keep your money in a different country and just transfer funds in as needed. We have an HSBC account in Miami Beach where our collections and deposits go. Then, we use PayPal and internet banking to handle the US obligations. Also, having a daughter who is an attorney in a Miami Beach international litigation firm is a big help:^) We go three blocks from our MarDel home to one of the local HSBC banks where we have another account. We request a free transfer of funds from the Miami Beach account to the MarDel account, et voila, we have the money we need locally, paying the normal bank rate to convert dollars to Argy pesos. Many excellent posts on this forum can bring you up-to-date on how a non-citizen can get a bank account here. No ATM fees :^D

Saint, I hope there is a series of posts you can share with us. You gave us some insights on some important issues. I promise to contribute to the business thread as opportunities develop.

One idea that works for us is Skype. A year ago it wasn't such a good deal, and we were leaning toward Vonage. Now, we have no proprietary hardware, just the Skype software which works anywhere there is a WiFi connection for a laptop. We have Fax / pay per page receive / send, a Miami Beach 305 area code phone number, and free calls to any land line or cell phone in most countries (in Arg, only Cordoba and BsAs are free. The rest of the country is $.037/ minute w / VAT) for a total of US$35.95 for 3 months. All Skype-to-Skype calls are free, regardless of whether any other services are used. We are amazed that the VideoPhone call capabilty is available and can be used without ever paying Skype a dime. We think it's a good deal.

Suerte!

[Aqualung]

Those aren't Buenos Aires road signs!

[Jaimito Cartero]

I've seen similar things, and most have a bolt, or a lock on the bottom, and you can remove, or unscrew the post.

[Argento]

I did not know where to post this, but a friend sent me this photo and email, he is here in BA and says this picture was taken while workers were installing iron posts to keep people from parking infront of a bar. Please note where the workers van is parked and how it will be able to leave - or NOT.

Great photo and really I am sure it could happen anywhere.

[Thomaso276]

I did not know where to post this, but a friend sent me this photo and email, he is here in BA and says this picture was taken while workers were installing iron posts to keep people from parking infront of a bar. Please note where the workers van is parked and how it will be able to leave - or NOT.

[Redondo]

I once had 500 peso in small change in my home. When I go home I pay everything with coins.

It's fun, it makes everybody happy.

[El Queso]

That's a good article and very true. Although, it's not quite the horror that they are painting it to be, at least all of the time.

I most often buy a pack of cigarrettes at a kiosco and it's either 3.60 for a soft pack or 3.75 for a hard pack. It really doesn't matter whether it's a $20 or a $5 that I give them (or sometimes even 2 $2s) as far as whether or not they are going to give change because they have to make change with a 1 peso coin, and 25 or.40 centavos to get up to a bigger bill.

There is a kiosco around the corner from my apartment that absolutely refuses to give change, but there is another one on the other corner where I've never had a problem. In fact, I rarely have problems at kioscos, usually just the one on the corner that refuses to give change.

Also, I talked to one kiosco owner on Cordoba that wouldn't give change and he said it was because of the the bus stop - that people would always come in a buy a.20 centavo candy or something get change, and he used to have a line of people stretching out his shop waiting to get change, and he had to start saying "no". Funny thing was - I had tried to get change at this kiosco because I needed change for the bus. Since then, I try to avoid kioscos near bus stops if I don't have change or don't want to give it up.

With taxis, it's not all that often that there is a problem because it's pretty common for the passenger or the driver to let the change go. I rarely carry much change with me and have never really had a problem, as long as I was willing to let 50 centavos or so go (roughly 16 cents US) and most taxis also are willing to let that go, so it is give and take.

[Exon123]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071106/...ntina_coins_dc

Exon

[Hunt99]

If you guys want to invest in world-wide real estate in a diversified way, the last thing you should do is to buy apartments in Buenos Aires (or anywhere else)

There's an Exchange Traded Fund which invests exclusively in non-US real estate companies. You'll be diversified over 100 different companies in 100 different countries. It's sponsored by Wisdomtree, and the New York Stock Exchange symbol is DRW.

I actually own a small amount of this, so caveat emptor.

[MCSE]

. And I'd charge $275 per night.

US$8.250,00 per month, wow, pretty expensive. Isn't it?

I rent an apartment to an embassy officer, they pay high rates for a high-end product, only US$2.300 per month, the actual value of the property it's US$450.000

[MCSE]

No matter in what floor you buy, no matter if they loan you or not, the only way to getting your investment back it's buying for a good price. When you buy for a convenient price you can always afford to get out: without losing money, losing a very small amount and even making some profit. That's the important thing. Of course there ar people who believe they know everything about everything.

[Exon123]

I own some rental units in the USA, their paid for just like owning property in Argentina, its all up front cash money at the time of closing. If you own anything down here, you'll own it free and clear.

Incidently I use the rental income for Mongering and paying airfare and rent in Argentina.

But here's the difference, other that all the poltitics, inflation, economy, corruption and the like.

Suppose for any reason I need a $100,000 or so, I go down to my local bank, sign the paper work and they put the money in my account, sometimes that very same day at a fair interest rate I can afford.

If I had that same situation in Argentina that equity would be worthless since even if I could get a mortgage in Buenos Aires, which I couldn't, I'd be paying such a userous interest rate I couldn't afford the loan. See my local Bank, no matter how much they like me is not going to loan money on an asset in Argentina.

Something for you Argentine real estate investors to think about. Saint is "Strokeing" himself and posting thats written below is pure bull shit.

Exon

[Redondo]

Looks like a nice website

So if you make 10.000 dollar a year on rental you need to pay 2100 dollar to the AFIP?

[Argento]

What about buying manufactured goods in Argentina and bringing them into the US / UK? I can find out the "official" issues, export taxes, duties, US tariffs just by going online and making a few calls.

But what about the "unofficial" issues, graft, hidden charges, other things one doesn't usually run into in the states? What questions don't I even know to ask?

Argentina is not competetive on new goods for export. Taking goods to the value of US$50K out by way of 20' containers is the most efficient. On costs, not including fixed overheads, are about 25% of the US$50K and must be done by a licenced exporter and through a licenced fiscal warehouse. The IVA credit, which is 21% of the purchase price, is pocketed by the exporter and is sunk money as far as you are concerned. There are other requirements and you can PM me if you need.

[Stormy]

Oh, good, I'll bring some down when I come.