Group Dinners

[Jackson]

Greetings everyone,

Utilizing the opinions and suggestions offered herein, I have written some standard guidelines for splitting the dinner check.

Thanks,

Jackson

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STANDARD DINNER PROTOCOL

1. Unless otherwise announced in advance, group dinners will generally be held at moderate to medium priced restaurants that are agreeable to all in attendance.

2. Generally, we will order several appetizers that are generally shared amongst everyone.

3. Generally, one or several people may order a desert.

4. Standard food and drink costs, including standard table beverages (water, sodas, beer, wine by the glass, coffee, tea, etc.) appetizers, entries, deserts and coffee, plus a 10% tip, will be equally divided between all in attendance.

5. The cost of bottles of wine will be itemized on a separate check to be paid by those who ordered and / or consumed said wine.

6. The cost of call liquor drinks, after-dinner brandys, and similar speciality drinks, plus a 10% tip, will be paid separately by whoever ordered them.

7. Anyone who beings a female date will be expected to pay 2 shares of the dinner check.

8. Anyone who wishes to opt-out of this plan should announce their desire for a separate check BEFORE we order.

[Hobby Fan]

Daddy Rulz is convincing: it is the organizer's call. What $ rules apply should be announced by the event organizer in the invitation or at least at the start of the night.

Thomaso's poll was a bit ambiguous as to general group outings or to AMA matters organized by Jackson. I think the choice of offered answers to the poll question as asked depends on how you interpreted the question or which recent posts you were reading. Example: Post #7 (by Jackson) shifted conversation to Jackson's events and invited comment.

Tinman - putting people on a "cheap" list is not helpful, too many folks will never see each other again. And they will have differing assumptions about dividing bills based on what their group of home friends do, so you can come up short without anyone being a jerk.

Have we talked this one to death?

[Daddy Rulz]

Whomever puts the dinner together decides on the rules, then lets the guests know. If Jax wants to say I'm not paying for shit, you guys read my forum for nothing pay my freaking dinner bill, it's within his right. Obviously it's within anybodys right to decline the invitation. If the deal is divide the check by the number people there then thats the deal. Order expensive shit, if you consume the most and evenly split the check your ahead. If the deal is, booze out everybody splits the food then thats the deal.

The only AMA dinner I went to I paid for part of the wine I don't drink and I wasn't whining.

Make sure the payment plan is disclosed, then when somebody b1tches we can all yell RFF and confuse anybody near the table.

[Tinman]

I've never been to an AMA meeting but I certainly hope to attend one when I visit BsAs next month.

From my perspective, I don't think Thomaso or Jackson are being cheap. It's more of a principal matter (guys, correct me if I'm wrong)

If someone knows they've contributed to the bill in a substantial way, it should be an automatic gesture on their part to accommodate in some way (as suggested earlier, pay for the whole tip, drop an extra 20 note on the table, and so on, and so on. So it goes, ergo, visa vis, concordantly.

If this gesture is not extended (this only applies when going Dutch, of course) I instantly file that person into the "selfish" category and see THAT person as being cheap. I don't think someone is being cheap for not wanting to pay for something they HAVE NOT consumed. Quite the contrary, someone is being cheap for expecting others to pay for what they HAVE consumed.

Please correct me if I'm wrong as I don't want to speak for others, but this is my feel of the situation.

I look forward to see some of you assholes in July when I visit.

Suerte,

Tin (fellow asshole)

[Thomaso276]

My thoughts were group dinners in general, which would include AMA meetings.

Before someone jumps in, this would not include any functions at the Mansion. For example, the weekend BBQ's. Whatever the hosts ask for per person is always acceptable and beyond reproach.

[Dickhead]

I don't think Tomaso's original post made it clear whether he was talking about group dinners in general (my assumption) or the AMA group meetings specifically.

[Hobby Fan]

Thinking it over, there is no "right" answer for all circumstances, which is why this issue arised again and again at different stages of life (high school friends, college roommates, work colleagues, buddies, AMA meetings) But I think that there is a pretty clear answer here: divide food equally and divide alcohol between those who consume. That is no better or worse than any other solution. Arguments can be made and have been made for and against all options, including this one. But what the group is ignoring is the most important argument: divide food and cheap drinks equally and divide wine amoung drinkers is the way Jackson wants it.

It should be Jackson's call because he is the one that organizes the events. It guarantees he will not end up behind by even a few pesos, which is the least we owe him for hosting and organizing (I have prior suggested covering him, but that has to be individually elected as he does not even want to mooch)

No solution is fair to everyone except the calculator and exact payment, and that is a pain for the guests and ends up leaving the 'banker' behind because folks invariably forget to include some item or round down too far on the tip. Separate checks produce the same result, but that is usually unacceptable to the restaurant and then you have to cross-divide wine bottle bills.

Even this system can be abused. Hard alcohol / imported or massive quantiy beer should be paid by the person who orders it, but that should be worked out among the drinkers. Leave Jackson out of it.

Anyone that ends up a few pesos behind on this system because they eat cheap food but do drink wine (and I am on that list, so my argument is not based in self-interest) will end up even over the long haul when a guy like Hunt99 quietly picks up the whole tab. If you only end up attending one dinner and you lose 10 pesos, think of it as a gambling loss; you could have randomly picked a dinner where someone elected to treat everyone. Odds are that if you only attend one dinner, you will gain a lot of valuable information.

Jackson, I think you are 100% right to announce your preferred system as the prevailing rule. We have discussed it to death, the poll is a wide split with no consensus, and its your party.

HF

[Thomaso276]

The government insisted I pay for their wine, even though I complained I didn't drink any! They were very persuasive and left me little choice.

[Hunt99]

At my last group dinner I picked up the check for everybody, wine and all.

That seemed to damp down the arguments.

Thomaso, you were invited, but of course you had other things to do, such as filing your taxes. Overall, I think I offered you the better option.

[Dickhead]

"Never seen a 453 gram steak on the menu. 400, 450, 350, fucking 720! But never 453."

Again, you have a good point, although again, not really.

"Besides, Argentina uses the metric system, so why should I quote anything in grams?"

Here your logic escapes me. I'm just glad all those years of drug deals forced me to learn the metric system.

[Moore]

You cannot order a 16 ounce steak in Argentina. You can, however, order a 453 gram steak.

Never seen a 453 gram steak on the menu. 400, 450, 350, fucking 720! but never 453. Besides, Argentina uses the metric system, so why should I quote anything in grams?

[Dickhead]

You cannot order a 16 ounce steak in Argentina. You can, however, order a 453 gram steak. But your point is well-taken, although not really. What is a "normal local experience," vs. a normal experience for an ex-pat? I think those of we ex-pats who actually worked down here are a distinct minority and a fortunate sub-set who've had more opportunity to interact with the locals. On the other hand, there are a lot of ex-pats who don't even try to meet local people, learn the language, learn local customs, and so forth. That does tend to leave quite a bit to be desired in my personal opinion.

[Moore]

What is lower, a mooch or a cheapskate? Chicks dig mooches.

I think part of the problem is that many of you don't have normal local habits - you dine often with foreign visitors.

Regardless, if I were dining with Bill Gates I wouldn't expect him to pay more than his share, which would be 50% assuming neither ordered a 25yo bottle of scotch for himself.

Anybody who orders a 16oz steak should also pay for it separately since a bife de chorizo is an extraordinary item in most parts of the world. What might be common in Argentina is irrelevant of course.

[Dickhead]

I think it's a common, yet mistaken, perception among visiting mongers that we resident mongers are wealthy and retired. I think that's part of the issue. Some of us are one and not the other, and some of us are neither. I myself am trying to live on current income from a job that doesn't employ me all year round. Others of us had to retire early for health reasons. Others of us are simply trying to stay down here as long as possible on a finite amount of savings. All of those situations are different from being on a short-term vacation from a full-time US or European job.

What I've chosen to do is limit the amount of times I eat out and not worry so much about the check, as opposed to eating out more and having it be an issue. But I am fortunate in that I can cook and I have a large, well-equipped kitchen. Many smaller BA apartments have tiny kitchens and most mongers couldn't cook their way out of a dry cleaning bag. If you have to eat out a lot this whole thing is much more of an issue.

So if you visiting mongers can just bear all of this in mind, that would be good. Maybe we aren't going to say anything when you order that 90 peso bottle of Chateau Petit Bourgeois, but that's probably not the one we would order. Contribute accordingly and all would be well. Also don't piss off any ex-cops, convicted felons, or drunken Irish, because you could disappear for a very long time.


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Hi DH,

ex-cops, convicted felons, or drunken Irish

It looks like you got all of us. Ha, ha!

Thanks,

Jackson

[Thomaso276]

31% of the votes say split the bill evenly. Not exacltly a slam dunk. And I'll bet out of those 15 the majority just love fine Argentine wine. Although I have no way of knowing how the posters voted, based on some of the comments, it seems they indicate that anyone who doesn't want to split the bill is cheap. Let's see, you expect me or anyone to pay an extra 25 pesos or more for your drinks and when I refuse I am cheap? Growing up in NYC we had a term for you guys: Moochers. It was very common for Moochers to call others cheap when they were confronted.

Most readers clearly identified with the problem, these are not issues involving 5 pesos or quibbling over an extra salad. They also noticed that at these dinners about half the table gets a free ride (and buzz) and then they are astonished that anyone would not want to simply split the bill. I can't tell you how many times I have been to these dinners and met several folks for the first (and usually last) time, watched them drink up and then say what a great deal as they prepare to fly back to the States.

Seems like we have a few Moochers who got outed!

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Hi Thomaso276,

Next time you post a poll, select the option to have the poll display who voted for which selection. It's an option you have when designing the poll, but not an option you can add afterwards, otherwise I would have added it as soon as you posted the poll.

Thanks,

Jackson