Argentine Real Estate

[Spassmusssein]

Christinaism plus Budouism makes Xiristocracia.

For somebody new to Argentina, at the moment I would not recommend to invest in real estate.

Maybe in Capital Federal, but never in the provinces. In Capital Federal you still can find zones with good prices that surely will rise within the next years.

Be sure to have at least your CDI (individual tax number) from AFIP (H. Yrigoen 1550) to realize a buy.

Puerto Madero, all those advertising in "Palermos" and "Caballito" are IMO absolutely overheated and not worth the prices. Wait for the next "corralito" to buy then.

Look at Capital Federalas it has the shape of an open hand.

From the base (riverside) stretching out like a hand. With this picture you can imagine the next zones to develop.

I recommend that you stay in Buenos Aires a few times and look around.

Find out where you really like to stay and then get into it.

For the suburbs you have three choices:

The north (which is the richest zone close to BA, Vincente Lopez, Olivos, San Isidro, Martinez.) square meter/ground between 200 - 800 USD (lot)

The west (AVOID) as it is the poorest zone and you can be shure to have probs, living there as a stranger) sqm/grd between 10 and 80 USD (lot)

The south (a mixed middle-class zone from lower to upper, small cities with 100' - 400. 000 inhabitants) sqm/grd between 35 and 200 USD (lot)

Don't look for properties in the east, there is just water. Or Colonia in Uruguay).

Offers of ground/casas you will find in:

www.topinmobiliario.com.ar

or

www.buscadorprop.com.ar

Cost of construction depends of your experience and ability to manage a good Spanish ("spanglish" is not suficient for efective results).

Constructors actually are calculating between $ 650 to $ 1000 (USD, no pesos) per square meter.

I am constructing actually for arround 350 USD, but I just build my own investments, not for third ones. These costs include the mano de obra as since years I am working with the same team.

Some details:

- Swimming pool (8 x 4) $ 5000 - 10.000
- Jacuzi (triangle 150) $ 1000
- Juego de baño high-end $ 1000 - 2000
- Griferia $ 500 - 1200
- Shower triangle (glass, special high-presure...) $ 500 - 1500)
- Sauna $ 1000 - 2500
- sfety door entrance $ 1000
- Doors $ 200 - 500
- Windows $ 200 - 800.
- Ladrillo comun ps 0,60 - 0,80,
- Ladrillo 12x18x33/9 huecos ps 3,20 - 3,60
- Tiles porcelanato (60 x 60) ps 40 - 150.

Good luck.

[Lueck Hoff]

The correct name here is " Spassmusssein ". It is german and means something like " It has to be fun " in english.

Lueck Hoff

[Miami Bob]

He used to post under TL's resto threads. I met him in TL's place many times. He was subdividing the property he had and building spec houses and selling them. He was doing well financially. I believe that he had done this before in another country and had a lot of "know how" try to pm him. I am likely not spelling his name correctly.

Best of luck as always stan.

Bob

[Stan Da Man]

Hi all:

I have a friend who recently visited BA and really liked it. He had been thinking of buying a second home somewhere in Florida, but he got interested in the idea of exploring the suburbs outside of BA for a vacation or retirement property.

I recall a discussion somewhere on this board (not necessarily this thread) where someone described the house they built or bought in the suburbs in great detail, complete with cost, square footage, and a thorough description of the area. There are a number of posts here describing the process for the city. But, the post I am looking for described the process for one of the suburbs.

Can anyone recall that thread? I've searched around for an hour but I don't remember enough, such as the name of the suburb, to find anything. The discussion doesn't seem to be in this thread. I've searched under several of the local posters' tags, El Queso and others, but can't seem to come up with anything there, either. I think it's from three years ago or so.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm just trying to give him an idea on cost, size and the problems he may encounter. The earlier discussion was an excellent example.

[Eurotrashy27]

What are some good sites that I can look at to learn about the real estate market in BA.

What are the areas due to appreciate in the next 5-10 years? (San Telmo, Palermo Hollywood?)

Thank you for the information in advance, if this happens, I promise a AP party to christen the joint!

[El Perro]

http://dailyreckoning.com/the-argent...ling-the-peso/

[Blindpacemaker]

These are excellent cases presented thus far and I applaude each contributor. As it stands today, we are enjoying what is basically a 4:1 $AR /$USD swap rate. Should this change, I am sure that many of us here might look elsewhere.

I am currently in a short term place in Palermo Hollywood that sells today for $100K USD. I am renting it for $1000USD. For a single month. Granted this is still low season through September but it is also only a single month rental. If I were to pull money from US, at an easily justifiable and conservative 6% cost, this apartment would run me roughly $500US / mo or roughly half what I am now paying.

Yes, one could continue to rent and throw good money down the argentenian drains. Or purchase. Now which is best?

Please feel free to weigh in on what is an issue yet to be resolved in my mind.

Suerte.

Jaggar

When something looks to good to be true, especially in the property business, it usually is.

Investment is never that clear cut. Beaurocracy and legislation (along with the current government) play a huge role in any countries property market.

You may be paying only 500 dollars a month back, but with most mortages (I'm assuming you meant get a fixed rate mortage and buy the place instead of rent, and pay back the mortage payments instead? On a 20-25yr time scale end up costing you 2-2.5 what you paid. So you borrow 100 grand, you'll end up paying at least 200grand back.

So, are you really paying 500 less? Or has the bank just got you by the balls? I would never, ever invest in argentina, or ANY south american country for purely financial reasons. If I had the cash and wanted a holiday home out here, that would be a different story. Although property is never a guarenteed moneymaker, if your clever you make it into one of the safest investments available.

1 simple rule - Buy the most sq. Footage, for the cheapest price, in the nicest area, of the busiest and most lucrative city, which is in a country with a phenominal track record for previous property prices and is in good financial stead.

Ok so it's a long rule, cudda been 3/4 I know haha

[Airplane]

I posted on 7-13-09 about my problems with getting a "certificado de residencia en el exterior" for the AFIP. I had to have this certificate in order to be able to get a "certificado de retención". Since I'm not a resident, I had to have the retention certificate, before I could sell a home.

Eventually, someone asked a lawyer, who deals with the AFIP, about this and they were told that a letter from my friends, saying that I stayed with them for some amount of time was good enough. This letter had to have an apostille. It also had to have a certified translation done here.

Once I got this certificate of residence abroad, it took about 5 weeks for the AFIP to give me the retention certificate. My accountant did everything with the AFIP, so I don't know any details.

I screwed up when I didn't talk to anyone about transferring the money from this sale out of the country, before I did the boleto. The boleto had the sale price in dollars.

I think that most of the time, the boleto is torn up when you do the escritura. This sale was done under the "blanqueo" program that ended in August. I don't know if that had anything to do with it, but in this case, the boleto was not torn up. According to the escribana, it was a public boleto and because it had the price in dollars, that meant that the escritura also had to have the price in dollars. Both of these papers showed the actual selling price.

The places I talked to that do money transfers, told me that for nonresidents to be able to transfer this money, the escritura must have the price in pesos.

I haven't found out much since then, but it looks like it is quite difficult for nonresidents to transfer money out of here in any case.

If anyone has any information about nonresidents transferring money, it would be nice to know.

[TejanoLibre]

A couple of years ago and gave it over to a property manager to run for me. They find tenants and I simply go there when I wish. I paid cash and bought a nice dome (the dome of urban heritage) you can see it here:

http://www.bbiargentina.com/rentals/...isting-87.html

The reason I bought the dome is. Well. Its fucking unbelieveable. I have 360 degree views - can see the cnongresso building full frontal and have geat views elsewhere. I wake up looking at the barolo building. The moncloa restaurant is across the way beside the plaza where I can find many places to have a coffee or eat. If you don't like that just stay at home and eat on one of two terraces big enough to hold a real party!

I love my dome - I am all alone on top of a great building in a stunning location.

I am rented all the time. All. The. Time.

I chose this place because it is unique and not just another cubbyhole in Recoleta.

It's the best I've seen for the money!

If you can buy a place like Tmontana's then it's a no brainer! If it's a shit-box-shoe-box in the sky on any shit street in any shit neighborhood like Recoleta, Palermo, etc, etc, new construction crap hole. Sure, just rent it and watch the property values soar all around you as the new construction falls apart!

WTG TONY!

TL.

P. S - Have you got a Barrett.50?

TL

[Cordoba Dan]

Tmontana, your place looks quite spectacular and the rehab tasteful. What does a dome go for these days or even a couple years ago?

Saludos.

[El Alamo]

I don't think it matters if you live in Buenos Aires 2 days a year or every day of the year - rent, don't buy.

You do not want anything to do with Argentina.

If you think Argentina or Buenos Aires is such a great real estate opportunity you must be smoking some really good stuff.

There are great real estate opportunities available but they are not in Argentina or Buenos Aires.

At the end of the day, you will regret getting involved with the tarbaby known as Argentina.

P. S. Listen to what Argento says about the so called real estate experts in Argentina and the so called real estate success stories in Argentina.

[Tmontana]

A couple of years ago and gave it over to a property manager to run for me. They find tenants and I simply go there when I wish. I paid cash and bought a nice dome (the dome of urban heritage) you can see it here:

http://www.bbiargentina.com/rentals/...isting-87.html

The reason I bought the dome is. Well. Its fucking unbelieveable. I have 360 degree views - can see the cnongresso building full frontal and have geat views elsewhere. I wake up looking at the barolo building. The moncloa restaurant is across the way beside the plaza where I can find many places to have a coffee or eat. If you don't like that just stay at home and eat on one of two terraces big enough to hold a real party!

I love my dome - I am all alone on top of a great building in a stunning location.

I am rented all the time. All. The. Time.

I chose this place because it is unique and not just another cubbyhole in Recoleta.

[Argento]

These are excellent cases presented thus far and I applaude each contributor. As it stands today, we are enjoying what is basically a 4:1 $AR /$USD swap rate. Should this change, I am sure that many of us here might look elsewhere.

I am currently in a short term place in Palermo Hollywood that sells today for $100K USD. I am renting it for $1000USD. For a single month. Granted this is still low season through September but it is also only a single month rental. If I were to pull money from US, at an easily justifiable and conservative 6% cost, this apartment would run me roughly $500US / mo or roughly half what I am now paying.

Yes, one could continue to rent and throw good money down the argentenian drains. Or purchase. Now which is best?

Please feel free to weigh in on what is an issue yet to be resolved in my mind.

Suerte.

Jaggar

Properties are always in U$D. Returns on capital are about 5% pa on a 2 year basis. I bought a house here 4 years back, and it has appreciated more than 100% , in U$ terms. Unless you are going to live here permanently, rent. There are more buckets of s hit in Bs As posing as real estate experts than there are street thieves, and that is saying something.

Argento

[Member #3320]

This is just my personal opinion though many of you might just disagree.

I feel that if one is visiting Argentina once a year, for 2~3 months (like me) short term rental albeit expensive works out the cheapest and most convenient.

If one is living in BA for 6~7 months a year, perhaps a long term 2 year rental would work out the best. This would work out to be cheaper and more convenient. However, for long term rental either a local owning property has to give guarantee for you OR you need to pay 24 months rental in advance or have a bank give guarantee for you etc etc. In any case, long term rentals are not to easy to obtain here.

However in my opinion the best thing would be to own your own in BA, especially if one is visiting BA more than one time in a year and is in BA for at least 6~8 months a year. This is not for investment purpose as its unlikely one will get sufficient rent out of it, due to high competition in the rental market and the present recession in the tourism industry. Also, its highly unlikely that prices of property are going to rise (short term Capital Gains) any further than what they are now in BA (at their peak) The reason to own would be, so that you have a place of your own, set it up the way you like. Nothing like owning a private pad for sexual adventures! One could even have a live -in relationship here with someone you particularly fancy in your own private pad (will work out cheaper than in a long term rental) This is to gain maximum advantage of your property. If the property has a parking space, it would be nice to own a car in BA. The car can be securely parked in the underground parking area when one is out of the country. Owning a property can also help in inviting over friends and family to BA from abroad for short vacations and entertaining them.

Most of the advantages stated above are possible even with a long term rental but I would say owning rather than rental will be a tad bit easier and less expensive and more enjoyable.

The costs involved are not so prohibitive as they may seem. Its just on what one is willing to spend. It can be anything from 75K to 350 K for a studio to a 2 bedroom apartment in the city. It just depends on what is your budget and how much you can splurge for yr own private pad in BA.

I will like to add here that owning a good property in a good location in BA with a good view, good gym/swimming pool/the works, underground parking, convenience stores nearby, if rented out at a reasonable (not TOO high) a price, would always be in demand by tourists/mongers for rentals. The trick is to buy a good property which will catch the eye of prospective tenants among the 10,000's of options available. One typical example of such a property is Enn Arce towers at Arce and Ortega & Gasset which I rented out during my last visit. Such a property if properly priced, would always be in demand for short or long term rentals. Personally, I would not like to rent out my privately owned apartment for the obvious wear and tear and damages which will occur.

Regarding the corruption involved in buying a property in BA. I personally feel that its a bit exaggerated. I have seen much worse corruption in my world travels. This hold goods for some of the famous first world countries as well. Its just a matter of experience of facing the corruption.

Also, I feel that buying a property in any part of the world is not easy. One has to do a lot of leg work, research, running around, legal work, dealing with the tricky real estate agents, etc etc.

Its simple. No PAIN, NO GAIN!

I personally do not own a property in BA yet as I am not in BA for more than 2~3 months a year. I would like to spend more time here and in that case, I would definitely buy in the future.

The speculation regarding a crash of Argentine pesos and deflation of property prices is a very optimistic speculation by prospective buyers. This will happen or not remains to be seen. However, I do not personally see it happening in recent future. Though I could be drastically wrong.

Regarding the fact Argentina could cease to become a pussy heaven and not the best place to monger is again a very pessimistic speculation. I would personally say that Argentina has been a pussy heaven as early as the late 80's when I commenced my "mongering career". It is still so 20 years hence. I think it will continue to remain so 20 years hence. In which case, it makes sense to own a property in this pussy heaven. In 20 years of owning property here, one would save a lot and be able to spend much more on pussy! And in 20 years, its guaranteed that even the worst property gives a advantage in terms of financial investment because this is a typical long term capital investment bound to give profits.

Yes, its a matter of debate for the moment as who knows what lies ahead of us, and whether we will live for another 20 years!! I could be wrong but I doubt it.

Lets, wait and watch!

[Iamzonzon]

Understand, and after reading a history of the last 100 years of Argentina, there seems little to question - rent, don't buy. Don't invest or do business either.

Can the same be categorically said for neighboring countries? Chile and Brazil are becoming more respectable. I hear good things about Uruguay, and promising things about Paraguay.