Pros-Cons of Apartment Ownership From Experience

[BadMan]

You know what, I thought about it and you are right, I am now making a list at your suggestion.

That's it, Sidney you offended my honor and my countrymen, Tomorrow 12 o'clock behind Excedra. The winner gets a paid excursion to Madahos, the loser has to go to the "park" with Exon.

Bad

[Captain9026]

You know if someone really offended you and you could walk right into their office and take it up with them face to face there would be a much different tone. People talk a lot of crap on boards like this for no fear of getting their ass kicked. I think face to face many of these people would take a different tone.

Simple enough

[BadMan]

No offense Captain,

And I agree with you sticking up for Saint, he seems to take alot of heat on this board, but he's a grown up and I am sure he can handle it, but internet annonimity is not really debatable. That is what the internet is all about. But I don't really understand what you are suggesting in regards to tracking people down? Are you suggesting people should be afraid to post what they really think for fear of as you put it " being tracked down "? None of this makes sense, and even less sense on this board. We all say what we want and on occasion we flame each other, so what? People do that. It's human nature.

Bad

I have been bashed continuously on this forum by different members, if I tracked down every single person who ever flamed or bashed me, I would have no time to sleep with beautiful women. Why waste my time. Only a really disturbed person would do or try to do something like that. I think in legal terms it's called stalking.

And are you saying if you ever get involved in a flame on this board that you will automatically post all your personal, business and other contact information on this forum?

[Captain9026]

It is funny as long as everyone thinks its funny. What I don't think is funny is that we have all of these anonymous posters with their tough guy internet personas hiding behind the fact that no one can identify them or give a negative impact on there real identity.

Saint comes on this board and defends not his alias but his true identity and livelihood from attackers that if they had to provide their true identity and business info to post some of the rubbish I have heard would choose not to for fear of having thier reputations damaged.

I applaud Saint. He doesnt hide behind an alias as everyone knows who he is and where to find him yet he speaks up and defends his position. I think if 99% of you knew you could be identified and tracked down you wouldnt say half the crap you say. I chose to keep my Identity private because I will not make any individual attacks on any one person. I chose to attack some of the attitudes I see in what should be a friendly forum for the pursuit of fun and entertainment not destructive bashing.

[Moore]

Also, remember most of the people locally still buying are NOT foreigners but locals. They have no where else to put their money. Real estate is the only safe play for them.

What do you think demand is going to do once they offer mortgages? Look at any place in the world where mortgages/financing/credit is offered?

For others you will join the likes of George Soros, Ted Turner, Sultan of Brunei and other people that are investing here that have been making good returns.

The average salary of locals is what, 1,500 pesos/month? Not many have US$150,000 to plunk down on an apartment. Very few can even afford to move out of their parent's basement.

I used to work with a local guy in BsAs that made 7000 pesos/mo, which was probably like making US$100k/yr in USA. He couldn't qualify for a mortgage (IIRC 50% down, 7 year term, high interest) on a US$60k place way out in the sticks. 30something yo and continues living with parents.

So much for the 40 million locals that I assume would be the real driving force of the Argentine market. The ones that want to buy their own house emigrate.

[Slick1]

"Saint & Hunt, I don't know either of you. But Hunt, your posts are hilarious and I couldn't stop laughing!"

Yeah Hunt's a real funny guy. Come back down to BA Hunt between 3/18- 3/25. I've been hoping to meet this guy. We'll hit some of those restaurants you rave about, drink a few bottles of that stuff you drink, what is it called again, wine or something like that. We'll tell a few courtroom stories. We'll put a roof on a Comedor with Capt. Dave. Come on down Hunt, I've been waiting to meet you.

[Capt Dave]

Even better news, I thought I would announce that I have a privately-owned bridge linking Manhattan and Brooklyn that SAINT! is going to buy from me. It's an all-cash deal, no financing necessary with this captain of global finance.

Hey - just a goldurn minute!

That's MY bridge - I just bought it from Pelotudo Propiedades last week (I bought it right from Ray, the owner)

Sorry Bro!

David

[JackLuvsRack]

Really interesting discusson.

My take is there are so many ways and places to invest your money, you probably shouldn't invest here if you're not going to stay for some time, unless of course you are George Soros, Ted Turner or the Sultan of Brunei and have that kind of cash you can throw around and some adventurism. Most people I think on this forum are here for a week or two, spend a few grand, and then go back home to their lives in other places. That in my opinion doesn't warrant buying a place here as an investment. If you're planning on permanently living here, that might be different, but if you do your research, you can invest in so many good stocks other with instant liquidity. I think in the long term I can make more from good stocks, not to mention sell anytime I want. If you like Argentina that much, maybe invest in an Argentine or Latin American ETF or one from some other emerging market.

Just my 2 cents.

Saint & Hunt, I don't know either of you. But Hunt, your posts are hilarious and I couldn't stop laughing!

Jack.

SAINT! has so much money, it was just pocket change to him, Thomaso. Even better news, I thought I would announce that I have a privately-owned bridge linking Manhattan and Brooklyn that SAINT! is going to buy from me. It's an all-cash deal, no financing necessary with this captain of global finance. He's delivering the payment to me in a trunk full of cash, stopping by my Upper West Side co-op after he lands his private 747 at JFK airport this evening. The Cristal is on me tomorrow night at Scores. SAINT! would have joined us, but I understand he is shooting off to Namibia to go on a photo safari with Bill and Melinda Gates.

[Hunt99]

SAINT! was a Saint for buying the place back. Try getting that kind of guarantee anywhere.

SAINT! has so much money, it was just pocket change to him, Thomaso. Even better news, I thought I would announce that I have a privately-owned bridge linking Manhattan and Brooklyn that SAINT! is going to buy from me. It's an all-cash deal, no financing necessary with this captain of global finance. He's delivering the payment to me in a trunk full of cash, stopping by my Upper West Side co-op after he lands his private 747 at JFK airport this evening. The Cristal is on me tomorrow night at Scores. SAINT! would have joined us, but I understand he is shooting off to Namibia to go on a photo safari with Bill and Melinda Gates.

[Thomaso276]

You will never get anyone here to sign off on someone elses positions, but the building expenses are sent out monthly and those who are behind (or possibly in litigation) are listed for all to see. This info is sent to owners so the seller can always provide a copy.

You might also be able to speak with the building management (they are listed on the expense report) to find out if there are any outstanding liens.

Most of these issues are supposed to be checked out by the escribano.

Bottom line is - Saint was a Saint for buying the place back. Try getting that kind of guarantee anywhere.

[Big Friendly]

If I ever purchased here (I love to rent because of flexibility) I would get a sign-off from the building Condo Committee certifying the current owner of the apartment is in good standing and has no out-standing issues.

[Captain9026]

However it's not Italian, it's German!

[BadMan]

He makes a good argument in favor of property investment in BA. I would personaly prefer people thinking it's too risky, therefore I will deal with fewer competing dollars;)

I think Exon is correct, the sky will fall down very soon, the moon will be swallowed by the Atlantic and BA will be hit the hardest. Keep your money in Vegas. Trust me.

Bad

[Hunt99]

Abridged version of SAINT'S! latest magnum opus:

it's 100% cash here.

These are serious investors down here. [such as SAINT!-ed.]

I feel (along with many other people) that it's still undervalued and will experience further capital appreciation.

I'll sell and move on to another area that is depressed (probably the USA)

I'd say it's not for 99.99% of the people.

I would buy it.

It's how I made most of my fortune. [his fortune is so vast, SAINT! has stopped trying to count it-ed.]

I correctly predicted in 2003

I work with many politicians and high level banking officers here in Argentina. [SAINT! regularly plays golf with Nestor Kirchner -ed.]

100% cash.

Bubble proof [ROFLMAO!-ed.]

ALL of mine for Argentina have been right.

I have some apartments I bought for u$s 100,000

spent u$s 25,000 furnishing it

I NET over u$s 30,000 a year in cash flow.

a million dollar property. [Only one million? Why not ONE BILLION DOLLARS! -ed.]

you will join the likes of George Soros, Ted Turner, Sultan of Brunei [and their best friend SAINT!-ed.]

[Saint]

Exon & Others,

Here is the last thing I'll say about this. I only came on here to tell my side of the story.

Exon - No one is debating the fact that it's VERY difficult to put all cash down when buying here. As you correctly mentioned, it's 100% cash here. The thing that separates real estate investors here vs. Other places in the world is that these are serious investors down here not gamblers or spectulators as in the USA and other parts of the world. It's so easy for someone to get a mortgage in the USA that shouldn't be given a mortgage. There are so many people levereged to the hilt and on the verge of problems and bankrupcty there.

Do you really think areas like Las Vegas will keep going up at the levels it has been going?? If you think it will then you should keep buying. Do you really think real estate in London will keep going up forever? If you think yes then you should continue to buy. Things move in cycles which you correctly mentioned. There is a time to buy and a time to sell. No one is saying real estate in BA will go up forever. I'm only saying that I feel (along with many other people) that it's still undervalued and will experience further capital appreciation. It's all about cycles. There WILL be a time to sell and when it comes, you can bet I'll sell and move on to another area that is depressed (probably the USA). Also, remember most of the people locally still buying are NOT foreigners but locals. They have no where else to put their money. Real estate is the only safe play for them.

Many people truly don't understand their mortgages they got. Some are all interest, many are Adjustable Rate mortgages (ARM's) that they truly don't understand. Interest rates go up 1% and many people can't afford to make their payments.

I actually agree with SOME of what you wrote. Real estate investing in South America is NOT for everyone. In fact, I'd say it's not for 99.99% of the people on this board, IMHO. It's ALL cash here. No one is saying you can't make money in the USA real estate market. My only point was you are FALSELY making comments that aren't true here when you say "you can't get your money out". "You're stuck" "it's a bad investment". The fact that this poster got his money out is a proven fact that what you claimed is NOT true. In fact, within a few days of his claim to sell it for $X amount of money he got an offer (me) saying I would buy it and you know what? He got out.

Then your claims of me making money on the deal contradict your posts again. Again, no one is saying you can't make money in other parts of the world. They are only saying that money IS to be made here in real estate if you know what you are doing.

I've posted this before and I'll post it again. Real Estate investing in South America is NOT for everyone. In fact, it's NOT for most people. I do think it makes sense for many higher net worth individuals that want to diversify.

I actually agree with you Exon that most millionires make their money from real estate. You are 100% correct. It's how I made most of my fortune. You have been saying pretty much since 2002 that the "sky is falling" here in Argentina and history proves you have been exactly wrong. Real estate prices have boomed, unemployment rates have drastically been reduced, the economy is doing well and you are seeing more and more established reputable companies like Google opening offices here. There is a reason for that.

True, having to pay all cash hurts. Yes, there are advantages in the USA and other parts of the world with financing. As I correctly predicted in 2003, mortgages are coming into the market here. I work with many politicians and high level banking officers here in Argentina. Don't think that mortgages are going to stay out of the picture forever here. What do you think demand is going to do once they offer mortgages? Look at any place in the world where mortgages / financing / credit is offered. The demand of real estate shoots up and the prices shoot up. (It's part of thre reason you have such high valuations of property in most cities around the world) The people buying here in Argentina did so with 100% cash which insulates the market and makes it somewhat bubble proof.

Again, I'm NOT posting to try to persuade people to buy here. I'm just posting to say that most of your predictions over the past several years have been flat out wrong and ALL of mine for Argentina have been right.

You mention how you would rather have places in the USA. That's fine and dandy. Keep in mind I have some apartments I bought for u$s 100,000 and spent u$s 25,000 furnishing it and I NET over u$s 30,000 a year in cash flow. There are some places in California that you can't get that kind of rent on a million dollar property.

Look at many people speculating in real estate in the USA, London, Australia and you'll see more and more people are going upside down on the investment / rentals / etc.

Again, I'm NOT saying to invest here. Again, I'd say for 99.999% of the people on this forum it doesn't make sense. For others you will join the likes of George Soros, Ted Turner, Sultan of Brunei and other people that are investing here that have been making good returns. This forum should NOT be used for investing advice so don't take this post for more than it is--- Just countering Exon's post.

Again Exon. I'm not saying there isn't money to be made in the USA. I never did. I'm just saying some of your claims here have been false and have been false for years.

Best of luck to all.