Pros-Cons of Apartment Ownership From Experience

[BundaLover]

It seems we have more then a few people on this board who are experienced RE investors. For those that are buying their first house in a foreign country that means we understand title, closing costs, US tax law, landlord-tenant relations, for those in SF and Santa Monica and Berkeley half a law degree due to rent control, maintence, finance requirments, property taxes, insurance, umbrella liability, commissions and sewer back-ups. See its easy to be a RE genius, it only takes about 20 years of dealing with it. Its much more fun to read about this taking place in Argentina with other peoples money. RE and pussy and good food this forum has it all!

[Stowe]

The only problem, the over leveraged Real Estate market in the US is on the verge of collapse, and in fact is collapsing. A smart investor would get out NOW.

I would disagree. If the investor can cover the payments during this 'down' time, the fact that they would still own the property when the market changes would greatly benefit them as the values would appreciate again.

Historically, property increases in value so, as long as you can cover the mortgages, why sell them only to have to buy them again when it recovers. That is assuming you are long-term investor and not a short-termer. If you are a short-termer you should have sold them LAST year.

As an example: since 1972 property values in Northern California have only depreciated 4 or 5 years (until this current market situation) and Southern California experienced residential depreciated 6 or 7 years since 1972. They were hurt more in the early 90's due to the collapse of the aerospace industry.

Suerte,

Stowe

[Stowe]

Adding to Hunt.

Saint forgot to add that he pisses oil, walks on water, his shit doesn't stink and the Pope, Jesus and God all pray to him. The US currency should state "In Saint we Trust".

From his post he needs absolutely MUST live in a mansion with doors and halls 8 feet wide just to accommodate his huge head, universe size ego and 36 inch dick.

I hear his dick is so long he can fuck himself in his own ass.

Stowe

[BadMan]

Then on the other hand. I can take a little less than I paid for my last car and buy a place in a brand new building and rent it out for enough to cover the building fees at a minimum and still enjoy the capital appreciation that I think is going to continue.

Can I ask what kind of car you drive? Last time I checked, the sq meter in BA is $1,500-$2000 US starting price, and the average apartment 50-70 sq meters. $80-$120k? Must be the new Masseratti, I envy you.

Other than that I agree, to each his own. My personal opinion is diversify. Own property in the US, EU, and SA.

Bad

[Captain9026]

I see the logic of Exon's post as I am a landlord as well. I have my properties in the beach communities along the Santa Monica Bay in California. I have had them for many years and get $2500 a month for a 2 bedroom apt's with ocean views. I am in so far below current market value that if the market does pull back 20% or more I could care less. This is not a short term investment for me and I would not trade this security for double the amount of real estate in BA. The rental income is too secure.

Then on the other hand, I can take a little less than I paid for my last car and buy a place in a brand new building and rent it out for enough to cover the building fees at a minimum and still enjoy the capital appreciation that I think is going to continue. I can fly down and enjoy it whenever I want and have a great time. In the next few years I may split time and live down there 6 mos a year. It has its place in my portfolio at 0.5% and I am ok with that. I would also be happy to have Saint manage it. Even if it depreciates it wont be as bad as that damn car:-)

Regardless of what I do or anyone on this board will do or has done this type of investment is a choice that is made by the person who stands to benefit or lose (in some cases) and is not for everyone. It is great that we all have opinions but they are just that. Nothing I have heard in this thread will impact my decission to buy property or not buy property. It is my money and If I make it or break it I won't come to this forum and cry about it.

Yea Yea I know. I must crap gold turds also and never loose money. Bring on the flames.

[El Perro]

I always see the wisdom in Exon's post, xept for the time he wanted to visit the trannie park. That was just weird.

Maybe he wanted to "leverage" a tranny.:)

[Lunico]

Single family homes are leveraged out but commercial property (remember we're talking one million cash US) will allow you to borrow 1.5 million on a 40% down 2.5 million dollar commercial residential. Depending on the market you like, AZ, NV, TX all have 40 unit properties averaging that cost. Now lets see One million in multi-units here or in BA. Lets see.

I always see the wisdom in Exon's post, xept for the time he wanted to visit the trannie park. That was just weird.

[Nemesis]

I'd rather own the 10 houses in Vegas, take the 27 1/2 precent tax deduction for depreciation and look for a 1031 tax exchange.

Exon

The only problem, the over leveraged Real Estate market in the US is on the verge of collapse, and in fact is collapsing. A smart investor would get out NOW.

[Daddy Rulz]

Keep making the money "Dad"

Where in the fuck is that pistol?

[Jbrlovers]

Well stated Exon. You just gave me another thing to think about. Thanks.

A little math.

Saint states below.

"I personally own more than a million dollars US of Argentine real estate."

"My property has appreciated more than 50% since I started investing in 2002"

Since the Argentine market is an all cash market bought and sold in US dollars that means Saint, (or someone on his behalf) plopped down over a million cash to buy property in Buenos Aires.

Suppose You took a million bucks, (a figure everyone throws around, but no one seams to have when you really need a million) and went to buy real estate in Las Vegas with it. (Vegas is just one example of many growth markets in the USA)

OK, Its 2002 and I'm in the Vegas market, (as an example, there many, many others) with a million bucks burning a hole in my pocket. I buy 10 investor rental homes using leverage, (not available in Argentina, all cash remember) at a price of $250,000 dollars each. Plopping down an unbelieveable $100,000 each as a down payment with 6% mortgages.

I now own 2.5 million of investment property which is very conservatively leveraged 40% equity 60% leverage, I've got postive cash flow with those numbers.

Five years later the market has doubled, (which in fact did better than that) and I now own 5 million in investment property with 3.5 million in equity. Not a bad deal, but only made possible with the use of leverage not available in Argentina.

Being so "Smart" and "Spot On" with market predictions cost Saint 2.5 million dollars he "left on the table" had he invested his money in the USA. This same thing could have been done in most major American markets California, Arizona, Florida, New York, Boston, Utah, New Mexico, Nevada the list goes on and on. (2.5 milliom is a lot of fucking money Mongers)

Moreover, You can walk into any bank in the United States with 3.5 million in real estate equity and they'll bend over backwards trying to loan you money. Something you can't do in Argentina, again all cash in US dollars and no mortgages.

A statistical fact is 9 out of every 10 millionaires in the USA made their money in real estate, and the reason? The reason is leverage. You can take one dollar here and buy ten dollars worth of leverage with it. Not possible in Argentina. In fact the Argentines are much more interested in fucking you than making a good deal and their not going to loan you any peso's.

I know something about this having been a real estate developer and general contractor myself and yes I own rental properties. Futhermore I built the rental properties I own. I have thats called vertically integrated profits, thats to say I made a profit buying the land, a profit on the site work, a profit building the properties. All on borrowed money with the exception of hard money I spent for the land, which I bought "Right" I might add.

Its in Saints best interest to sell and promote real estate in Buenos Aires, for "Christ Sakes" thats the business hes in, what else would you expect. Its obvious he made a profit off member #1036 we just don't know how much?

I'm an Investor, thats what it say's on my tax return. I do this sorta of shit for a living and have for many, many years. Assets no matter what form they come in run in cycles. Up until 2002 it was the stock market, after the crash it was real estate, (based on 5% mortgages I might add) then Oil and commodities Gold, Silver and the like, based on a world wide economic boom. Now it seems to be the stock market again and its real estates trun in the barrel.

Any number of a "Zillion" things can happen to make an investment in Argentina a gamble with unexceptable risk's. See what a world wide ression would do to your deal as one example. A new government, more and more inflation, why the CockSuckers renigged on the worlds greatest debt default.

I'd rather own the 10 houses in Vegas, take the 27 1/2 precent tax deduction for depreciation and look for a 1031 tax exchange.

Exon

[Exon123]

A little math.

Saint states below.

"I personally own more than a million dollars US of Argentine real estate."

"My property has appreciated more than 50% since I started investing in 2002"

Since the Argentine market is an all cash market bought and sold in US dollars that means Saint, (or someone on his behalf) plopped down over a million cash to buy property in Buenos Aires.

Suppose You took a million bucks, (a figure everyone throws around, but no one seams to have when you really need a million) and went to buy real estate in Las Vegas with it. (Vegas is just one example of many growth markets in the USA)

OK, Its 2002 and I'm in the Vegas market, (as an example, there many, many others) with a million bucks burning a hole in my pocket. I buy 10 investor rental homes using leverage, (not available in Argentina, all cash remember) at a price of $250,000 dollars each. Plopping down an unbelieveable $100,000 each as a down payment with 6% mortgages.

I now own 2.5 million of investment property which is very conservatively leveraged 40% equity 60% leverage, I've got postive cash flow with those numbers.

Five years later the market has doubled, (which in fact did better than that) and I now own 5 million in investment property with 3.5 million in equity. Not a bad deal, but only made possible with the use of leverage not available in Argentina.

Being so "Smart" and "Spot On" with market predictions cost Saint 2.5 million dollars he "left on the table" had he invested his money in the USA. This same thing could have been done in most major American markets California, Arizona, Florida, New York, Boston, Utah, New Mexico, Nevada the list goes on and on. (2.5 milliom is a lot of fucking money Mongers)

Moreover, You can walk into any bank in the United States with 3.5 million in real estate equity and they'll bend over backwards trying to loan you money. Something you can't do in Argentina, again all cash in US dollars and no mortgages.

A statistical fact is 9 out of every 10 millionaires in the USA made their money in real estate, and the reason? The reason is leverage. You can take one dollar here and buy ten dollars worth of leverage with it. Not possible in Argentina. In fact the Argentines are much more interested in fucking you than making a good deal and their not going to loan you any peso's.

I know something about this having been a real estate developer and general contractor myself and yes I own rental properties. Futhermore I built the rental properties I own. I have thats called vertically integrated profits, thats to say I made a profit buying the land, a profit on the site work, a profit building the properties. All on borrowed money with the exception of hard money I spent for the land, which I bought "Right" I might add.

Its in Saints best interest to sell and promote real estate in Buenos Aires, for "Christ Sakes" thats the business hes in, what else would you expect. Its obvious he made a profit off member #1036 we just don't know how much?

I'm an Investor, thats what it say's on my tax return. I do this sorta of shit for a living and have for many, many years. Assets no matter what form they come in run in cycles. Up until 2002 it was the stock market, after the crash it was real estate, (based on 5% mortgages I might add) then Oil and commodities Gold, Silver and the like, based on a world wide economic boom. Now it seems to be the stock market again and its real estates trun in the barrel.

Any number of a "Zillion" things can happen to make an investment in Argentina a gamble with unexceptable risk's. See what a world wide ression would do to your deal as one example. A new government, more and more inflation, why the CockSuckers renigged on the worlds greatest debt default.

I'd rather own the 10 houses in Vegas, take the 27 1/2 precent tax deduction for depreciation and look for a 1031 tax exchange.

Exon

[Punter 127]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geo Eye.

DO NOT TRUST THE ARGENTINE PEOPLE. They are liars and scam artist, (95% plus at least) They do this because the wheels are falling off thier economy. Here in Miami, whenever I go into a business that is argentine owners, I walk right out. Like I have stated before if it wasn't for the cheap sluts I would have no reason to go to Argentina.

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He is a knowledgeable Miami businessman. On a recent visit to that area, I was astonished to discover that thousands of AR people live there. There are 2 AR newpapers! I can only speculate their reasons for leaving AR. One reason certainly must be to get their money out.

I wonder why they didn't just take their money and go to the Dominican Republic, like you did.

[Courcheval]

Just an innocent question of somebody REALLY not interested in buying anything. Since the exchange rate with the dollar has been stable over those years and inflation is sky rocketing, is there any real capital gain in a 50% increase in value for somebody living in Argentina?

[Hunt99]

Saint's post deserves its own analysis.

I simply do as I have done on the over $50 million in real estate I have purchased in Buenos Aires.

I did because it was a good investment.

I personally own over u$s 1 million in real estate in Buenos Aires.

I'm very happy and comfortable with my position here and continue to add to my portfolio.

When your company is being mentioned in magazines like the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, USA Today, London Sun Times, The Economist, investment magazines, TV, Radio, and you are experiencing high occupancy rates and companies are offering millions of dollars to buy your company, do you really think I need to "save face"

The u$s 400 that this poster paid was pocket change as others are paying u$s 4,000 for now.

I know more about real estate than anyone on this board when it comes to Buenos Aires having been involved on over 400 transactions now including the purchase of some high end multi-million dollar buildings.

I have bought and sold apartments for myself and clients. I personally have sold some apartments where I made 40% profits in less than 1 year.

I knew I would NOT be working with him in the future.

I've been dead on target with the following sectors.

Real estate has appreciated over 50% since I started buying.

I was exactly correct.

I predicted the tourism would continue going up. The last time I checked, it keeps going up year after year.

The fact that he sold lower than what I could turn around and flip higher.

I've sold several with no problems at all.

I jumped at the chance to buy it back for what I think was actually just a few thousand dollars more than he paid for it.

This poster should be thanking his lucky stars that I came along and took care of this.

I paid the accountant for him.

Remember how it was and everything I did to help him.

I actually had my in-house accountant going to the closing.

Although I was on holiday out of the country.

I own other real estate in South America.

History proves that I have been right.

I made this wire.

I have the best staff probably in South America

He forgot to add: "Scientists from the University of Buenos Aires have proven that I shit golden turds."

[Hunt99]

As a public service, I give you the relevant portions of the posts since yesterday:

Don't make the mistake that Member 1036 made, relying on information obtained on this forum to make important investment or other vital decision related to Argentina.

This is a mongering forum, offering useful advice on the subject at hand, but it also contains a lot of, unreliable, and ill conceived ideas and information.

DO NOT TRUST THE ARGENTINE PEOPLE. They are liars and scam artist, (95% plus at least) They do this because the wheels are falling off thier economy. Here in Miami, whenever I go into a business that is argentine owners, I walk right out. Like I have stated before if it wasn't for the cheap sluts I would have no reason to go to Argentina.

For me, it is my respect and ego that were offended in this transaction more than monetary as you mention.

But really man, your post should have been ---

I wanted to buy an apartment in BA. I did, I couldn't rent it out and luckily, the guy who consulted with me on the sale was big enough (for whatever his reasons) to make my life a hell of lot easier and buy it back from me.

I'm glad you got out without anything horrible happening but I don't beleive you are the brightest bulb in the fixture.

I never understood the part about buying an apartment he was unhappy with from the start.