Pros-Cons of Apartment Ownership From Experience

[Slick1]

Hi LA Larry,

Not that I wish to set myself up to get flamed, but as I understand it, the truth is not slander, regardless of how unpleasant the information may be.

Thanks,

Jackson[/blue]

Actually Jackson the Truth is only a defense to slander. One still has to determine who is telling the truth. Saints version at least sounds plausible. But since we are talking about the written word that would not be slander anyway, it would be libel. Further, since everyone is using a fake name then neither slander or libel would apply. In reality it is just one disgruntled posters biased account of getting burned in the BA real estate scene. I never understood the part about buying an apartment he was unhappy with from the start. I'll have to agree with LA Larry, sans the part about slander.

[BundaLover]

"He sends me pics and I say ok what the hell it looks good."

Let me understand this.

A) You have 30 years real estate experience in California.

Be) You authorize purchase and send 30% deposit for a place you did not inspect.

Then you have complications.

Anyway I'm glad you got out without anything horrible happening but I don't beleive you are the brightest bulb in the fixture. You're written report was EXCELLENT. Thank you!

[Saint]

There are two sides to every story. Obviously the poster is leaving out some details. Why he is blaming me I have no idea, especially after I saved him after his incessant whining and crying about this investment. As some of you will recall, he was whining about what a mistake he made claiming that it was the worst mistake of his life. Well, as soon as I saw that, I PM’ed him and offered to buy his property back.

This poster is involved in real estate (as his profession as he claims). He will know that no one “talks someone into buying something”. The poster made a conscious decision to buy a piece of real estate. It was HIS decision. The photos that I sent were accurate. Again, someone involved in real estate as a professional would understand real estate more than some random individual that has never purchased before.

The amount you can charge per night is obviously determined by how nice you make it and what amenities you add to it. That is common sense. I never claimed it “just need to be painted”. I provided this client with a sample rate of return spreadsheet based on certain assumptions like he would buy nice furniture.


This poster is trying to make some claim that some how he was talked into buying this property or forced into it. I never talked him into buying. I simply do as I have done on the over $50 million in real estate I have purchased in Buenos Aires – I presented him with an opportunity and he decided to purchase it. Nothing more and nothing less.

As he mentioned, I was a go between for him. Around about the time before we were going to close this poster calls me and tells me that he didn’t want to take my advice and get it done properly. Things like painting the apartment (which certainly needed it and I always told him that) he wanted to have a doorman with no experience in painting. Things like AC installation; he wanted his doorman to do it which voids the warranty. Nothing he wanted to do correctly. I was very annoyed at this and quickly knew I didn’t want to work with someone like this. I told him that I didn’t wish to manage the property. At this point we went our separate ways.

The fact that he had problems with the building and he decided to trust them and make changes that they claimed were the previous owners was his problem. Maybe he didn’t have competent lawyers. We get many requests from buildings to do certain things, our lawyer simply tells them that it’s not our fault and we won’t do it and to date, on tens of millions of dollars of purchases we have not had to make costly changes.

Yes, it’s true that there is a realtor’s commission typically of 3% of the purchase price. Good luck NOT paying a realtor’s commission. Where he is getting that this is many times negotiable is simple false. On residential real estate mostly it's 3%. In some hot areas it's 4%. It’s very rare to buy a good property directly with the owner. Not impossible. Possible but not too common. His claims of the doorman giving him information and being an ally I will explain later in this post what a con man his doorman is/was.

The main thing I think you should get out his post is that he “agreed to purchase it”. It was HIS decision. No one forced him nor did they put a gun to his head. HE made the conscious decision to invest here and purchase it.

As far as the armed guard, I told him we can help arrange it but after the nasty conversation with him to see that he wasn’t going to do things properly and was cutting corners with funds, I didn’t think he would spring for an armed guard. Also, It was the realtor’s job to set that up as he was closing in person. Looking back, I should have set that up for him and I will take fault for that. We simply ended our relationship at that point and didn’t speak again until I offered to help him and purchase his property from him (which he is totally ungrateful for and which really surprises me as LA Larry correctly pointed out).


The other key things in the poster’s post you should focus on is this “I am stupid and should have bailed as usually my gut is always right on real estate deals”. Yes, he was stupid if he didn’t feel comfortable and proceeded. Why he is blaming me I have no idea. I didn’t go to him for the closing because I had already ended my working relationship with him. Again, looking back maybe I should have gone to the closing with him but the realtor was there so really there was no need as I knew I would NOT be working with him in the future.

No, I have not met this poster (and actually glad after reading his ungrateful attitude). I fulfilled my promise to him. Even while others on the board like Exon claimed after I promised to buy it from him said I would never do it. I did. Not to “save face”. What do I have to save face for?? Certainly not for anyone on this board. When your company is being mentioned in magazines like the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, USA Today, London Sun Times, The Economist, investment magazines, TV, Radio, and you are experiencing high occupancy rates and companies are offering millions of dollars to buy your company, do you really think I need to "save face" for some horny guys on a message board?? Come on. Give me a break.

I did because it was a good investment. I personally own over u$s 1 million in real estate in Buenos Aires. You know what? I’m very happy and comfortable with my position here and continue to add to my portfolio as are other clients that took my advice. The u$s 400 that this poster paid was pocket change as others are paying u$s 4,000 for now.

The plain fact as I’ve said it before. Like me or hate me. I’ve been dead on target with the following sectors. (1) real estate (real estate has appreciated over 50% since I started buying and continues to go up); (2) the exchange rate….go back and read the posts and look back in 2002. I CORRECTLY called the rate staying between 2.75 – 3.25. Gee whiz, I was exactly correct. (3) the tourism #’s. I predicted the tourism would continue going up. The last time I checked, it keeps going up year after year. In fact, honestly, this poster must be the only possible person that bought 2 years ago and lost money on the deal! That is the plain facts of it.

Exon’s posts are dead wrong. I’m confident I know more about real estate than anyone on this board when it comes to Buenos Aires having been involved on over 400 transactions now including the purchase of some high end multi-million dollar buildings. I have bought and sold apartments for myself and clients. I personally have sold some apartments where I made 40% profits in less than 1 year. Exon’s claims of not being able to get out are just simply false and I would venture to guess he has never purchased nor sold here. The simple fact that the poster got out of this investment is proof of that fact. The fact that he sold lower than what I could turn around and flip higher is not really an issue here.

I did not meet this poster. It’s true that he came to my office and didn’t have an appointment and I had a phone call that I took so I didn’t come out to greet him. He was not a client. I was doing him a huge favor and he is acting like I owed him something which I certainly did NOT. He is probably the most ungrateful person I have ever seen in my life. Why in the world would I make some special effort to skip an important call for someone that has this sort of attitude.

Again, the important thing to note is I ended my business relationship with him years ago. I made the right call as I’ve always been a good judge of character. I knew he isn’t someone that I would want to work with and I’m fortunate that I can pick and chose who I want to work with. Again, the important things to note in his post is “my experience AFTER I purchased was horrendous”. AFTER. I did not talk to him after that day that I stopped working with him. It’s VERY plain to see he was over his head and many people took advantage of him.

First of all, you simply MUST have someone honest and dependable managing your property here. You can’t survive in a place like Buenos Aires without an honest and ethical company managing it. It’s one of the most corrupt places in the world. I always point this out and I actually turn down about 7-10 people per DAY that want me to manage their properties. I simply do NOT manage a property that I don’t buy myself or for my client. I buy on average 2-3 per WEEK.

His building got him to pay bills that a competent lawyer could have fought. The fact he didn’t know any of this is his own problem. The fact that he paid these expenses is his problem. I own many apartments here in Buenos Aires and manage over 100 that I purchased for clients. Buildings will always try to con you into something. These administrations are worse than the Mafia. You’d be surprised how they back down when you have your lawyer tell them you will fight them on it.

There were no liens or problems with the condo association or this apartment so I would guess that they saw that the owner is an absentee owner from the USA, doesn’t speak Spanish and conned him. Again, all his problems. There were no bills due when he bought it. It was a problem that occurred AFTER he bought it.



Again, it’s clear the building administration took advantage of him. Had he had a competent property manger with a good lawyer he could have fought this. So this takes us to the time when someone told me he was selling it a few months ago. Naturally I jumped at the chance to buy it back for what I think was actually just a few thousand dollars more than he paid for it. I PM’ed him as he correctly claims and I see that he says he wants $X dollar for it and I jump at it. I tell him that I will help him with it and really bailed him out.

I tell him that in order to purchase it, I will need to verify several things, verify he was properly paying his asset/property taxes each year and get an architect inspection as I noticed several changes from when I first bought it. I sent an architect to go inspect it. Imagine my surprise when the architect found someone living in the place. Apparently, El Flaco was managing the unit and without permission from the poster was letting someone use it. The person was startled at the architect there. We immediately notified the poster of this situation. We immediately took the time to change the locks for him. It was clear that the doorman knew about this situation and didn’t notify him. The doorman was paying his bills for Christ’s sake so he knew. Supposedly this was someone the poster trusted yet he let a complete stranger use his apartment. The kicker of it was this poster emailed El Flaco and El Flaco admits to leaving the country of Argentina some months ago and leaving some total stranger in charge!!! All without telling this poster. The poster was pretty shaken up that day and I'd ask him to take a step back in time to remember how it was and everything I did to help him.

Again, my staff took the time to go there several times and get a locksmith to change the lock. Around about this time, the poster tells me that I “saved him”. Thanks me enormously for everything I was doing for him. That’s why it’s so surprising to see his ungrateful post. I was expecting to see something like, “THANK GOD for Saint bailing me out of this!”. I have the original emails to show how thankful he was. It seems that El Flaco was letting someone use it without paying for it. The poster immediately had his management terminated and I told him as a favor, I’d have my staff paying his bills until we finished the process.

My staff for 2 months went and paid bills for him and didn’t charge him a fee to do this. Again, he makes no mention of this in his post.

My accountant discovers that the poster was not paying his annual asset/property taxes as required by law. To sell a property of course you must be up to date on ALL taxes. This is common sense. I’ve ALWAYS told my clients about this annual tax and it’s clearly on my website and always has been. The fact that he didn’t know the laws is his own fault. None of my other clients had this problem as we know the laws and pay their taxes. So, the tax preparation fees he is talking about are for the 2 years he didn’t pay the taxes. My staff arranged this and took care of it for him.

Not only that but for a while he wasn’t paying us money or sending my firm money to pay his bills. I floated him for quite a while. Even his property taxes, I paid the accountant for him and simply let him deduct it at the closing. He forgot to mention that too.

He is wrong in his post. The asset tax based on the value of the property is NOT 1.5% as he claims but 0.75% of all assets you own in Argentina. All of my clients have correctly paid this tax and none of them (including me) have had problems when they went to sell. I’ve sold several with no problems at all.

One thing I’ll totally agree with El Flaco is that the furniture was ugly and no good. That is true. If he used an interior decorator maybe she/he was blind. The furniture was all crap. El Flaco was spot on with that. It’s the reason why he probably couldn’t rent it (or the fact that someone else was living in it probably didn’t help either! Ha, ha).

I totally kept my word and really saved him. As a foreigner you must get a permit to sell. It’s a 2 month process. You must have an accountant prepare it and my accountant did it and I even offered to split the fee with this poster. Again, totally ungrateful of this poster after saving him. He couldn’t even get a realtor to list this property for him! Go back and read his original post whining about this last year and look at my post offering to buy it.

As far as I’m concerned, this poster should be thanking his lucky stars that I came along and took care of this. Had I not helped him, who knows…maybe El Flaco’s friend would be living in it still! When it comes down to it, plain and simple, I purchased it because it’s a good investment and I’ll make money with it.

I think you can do your research and see really nothing I called for Argentina has been wrong since 2002. Again, there are two sides to every story. I don’t wish this poster ill well and I actually wish him the best of luck as I do everyone out there.

I was out of town and I actually had my in-house accountant going to the closing as well as another employee. They accompanied him. The poster forgot to mention that although I was out of the country, I stayed in constant contact with my office to make sure everything went ok. The poster wasn’t comfortable in carrying around the money so he wanted u$s 50,000 of it (part of the total fee) wired to his account in the USA. I wired the u$s 50,000 from my personal account within 15 minutes of the closing which he can verify. Although I was on holiday out of the country I made it a point not to leave my house (I own other real estate in South America) until I made this wire.

Again, I’m surprised at the ungrateful behavior. History proves that I have been right on real estate here. All those that don’t have the stomache for it, as I mentioned many, many times. It’s not for you, stay investing in stocks and bonds, gold and oil. It’s not for everyone but those in the last 2 years that have purchased here have been very happy they have.

About the only thing the poster was accurate on was that I do have a VERY competent staff. I have the best staff probably in South America and I appreciate the poster for getting that part right. Thanks!

Best of luck to all.

Saint

[LA Larry]

in your rambling, unclear post, you should get down on your knees and thank the guy for bailing you out of your aparment.

The first time you slandered him, I stayed quiet, figuring what good would it do to respond to some guy who got in over his head in a unwise real estate deal and was bummed out about it.

But really man, your post should have been ---

I wanted to buy an apartment in BA. I did, I couldn't rent it out and luckily, the guy who consulted with me on the sale was big enough (for whatever his reasons) to make my life a hell of lot easier and buy it back from me.

I've never met Mike, so I don't have any reason to defend him. And I know a lot mongers like to take shots at him because he's been accused of being arrogant.

But, the guy came through for you. You shouldn't quible about him not meeting you in his office (I would avoid a guy who slanders people in forums also)

In my book, you should learn a little discretion. And little gratitude.

(Interestingly enough, you haven't answered the question about.

Your apartment sale price -- did you lose money on the deal?

I bet you made a profit after all of your slander as well)

===========================================

Hi LA Larry,

Not that I wish to set myself up to get flamed, but as I understand it, the truth is not slander, regardless of how unpleasant the information may be.

Thanks,

Jackson

[Member #1036]

I posted this report as a guide or an aid to a bunch of mongers who I don't know or probably don't know but in my opinion is the purpose of the board to help each other.

You say my post is nothing to thankful for is exactly why I stopped posting long ago for ingrates like you who are know it alls and sit here and look to criticize others for making stupid mistakes which I admittedly did and man enough to admit. So what? What do I gain from it? Nothing.

My point is that this board has helped me in other ways and my way to contribute is put my ego and pride out there for idiots like you who think you know it all and only contribute to criticize.

If anything, it gave me an excuse to come to BA so often and enjoy the fruits of this country. If I was putting every penny I had into investing in BA I could understand your criticism of me on my hasty decisions but you know nothing of me or my financial situations as to criticize what I do with my money. To you this could be a sizable invsstment with much care needed but to others it could piss away money that if works out great but if we lose it big fucking deal. We went into this deal with blinders but not necessarily risking my whole life savings. For me, it is my respect and ego that were offended in this transaction more than monetary as you mention.

If I flamed you. You deserved it so kiss my ass if you don't like it.

But I don't see how helpful and deserving of thanks Member #1036 really is.

We're all smart men here. If you are going to buy a place without really understanding what you're getting into -- then you will invariably get screwed.

In the future, any who one want to buy an apartment should be prepared to do a boat load of research. Most of Member's #1036 problems comes from making a hasty and too uninformed decision. Yes, it sounds like he had a bad experience, but how many of this forum's board would have made the same mistakes he did?

I still maintain that you can buy a place down here and not have it turn into a fiasco.

Only buy a place that you love; the location, the lobby, the hallways, the views, the sunlight, the space, etc. (Member seemed lukewarm about the place he bought -- quite strange, actually to blame that on Mike. Once you saw the place, you should have said, "no, I want to see other apartments" Instead you bought.

If you are buying a place to rent out as a business BEWARE! Just check out how many furnished joints there are online -- you will be looking at many, many vacant weeks given all the competition.

So, I think that Member's expectations and actions were out of whack with how anyone should ever approach buying in a foreign country.

One can't hire a consultant to think for you. You still have to bring your own smarts / instincts to the table.

Buy a place in BA, furnish it, live in it, but don't expect to rent it. If you can (and you should be able to occasionally) that's gravy income. I also think that its no sure thing to presume that you are going to be able to sell it easily. You may well be able to. But I think purchasers here should be those who are looking for a longterm home away from home, with no concern over flipping it.

Just my two cents.

[Member #1036]

Greetings Member # 1036,

Now that you've sold your apartment, I'd like to know if the apartment I described in http://www.argentinaprivate.com/forum/showthread.php?p=362554 that was shown to me by El Flaco is in fact your previous apartment?

Thanks,

Jackson

It almost sounds like the piece of shit I bought but somethings don't jive such as the lr / br. It don't matter, its done with and Mike came through in promising to buy back the apartment which he did for another one of his clients which I hope he has better luck than I did.

[Big Friendly]

I read somewhere recently that the government whats to raise the yearly taxes on real estate. They indicated that that the tax number you need to purchase the real estate is the way of tracking this tax. The article indicated that the rate would be raised to around 2.5% of the purchase price per year. The % tax rate was graduated with the rate higher for more expensive places.

[Punter 127]

I hate be be cynical, but.

Like it's any better in the DR!

[Geo Eye]

Hey member 1036,

I wish I could have met you earlier, I can tell you I almost made the same mistake. DO NOT TRUST THE ARGENTINE PEOPLE. They are liars and scam artist, (95% plus at least) They do this because the wheels are falling off thier economy. Here in Miami, whenever I go into a business that is argentine owners, I walk right out. Like I have stated before if it wasn't for the cheap sluts I would have no reason to go to Argentina.

[Nemesis]

Don't make the mistake that Member 1036 made, relying on information obtained on this forum to make important investment or other vital decision related to Argentina.

This is a mongering forum, offering useful advice on the subject at hand, but it also contains a lot of, unreliable, and ill conceived ideas and information.

[Hunt99]

To save future readers time, I want to separate the wheat from the chaff in this thread:

I was interested about a couple years ago in investing in an apt in BA as I frequented here many times and naturally enjoyed it.

He quotes me some figure that honestly I don't remember but seemed high to me.

At this point I agree, I am stupid and should have bailed.

My suggestion is don't buy here as no one is dependable and lots of people lie and take advantage of foreigners.

Real Estate in Buenos Aires has no "liquidaty", Inflation is rampant, the government is "Questionable" and once you're in how do you get out?

Thanks 1036, you likely saved me a bundle.

I think whenever you invest in a foreign country, you are taking a big risk, and real estate is even riskier and those risk averse should definitely go into another kind of investment.

Member # 1036

I was very seriously thinking about buying an apartment in BA as early as next month. I can't thank you enough for opening my eyes to the realities of ARG.

Here is the key phrase for all those who want to live or visit here:

"Its alway stick it to the foreigner as they have money"

I see it in all aspects of Arg. Life.

If you are going to buy a place without really understanding what you're getting into -- then you will invariably get screwed.

I just saved you future viewers a good fifteen minutes of time. Send your "thank you" checks to Capt Dave's charity. :D

[Exon123]

Good post, sorry your investment experience was so negative. Here is the key phrase for all those who want to live or visit here:

"Its alway stick it to the foreigner as they have money"

I see it in all aspects of Arg. Life.

Member 1036 was lead down the "Prim Rose Path" by most of the people involved in his transaction, everyone benifited but him. Seems pretty cut and dried.

Investing is tough enough, but to do it in a foregin country that you don't speak the language or know the customs makes it that much more difficult.

Its obvious to me that Saint repurchased the property to salvage his reputation and "save face". Moreover he didn't due it without the prospects of making a profit.

Seems you can't even trust the Americans down their.

I'd be currious to know how much he lost on the deal.

Exon

[Daddy Rulz]

We're all smart men here.

I are an idiot, speak for yourself buddy!

[LA Larry]

But I don't see how helpful and deserving of thanks Member #1036 really is.

We're all smart men here. If you are going to buy a place without really understanding what you're getting into -- then you will invariably get screwed.

In the future, any who one want to buy an apartment should be prepared to do a boat load of research. Most of Member's #1036 problems comes from making a hasty and too uninformed decision. Yes, it sounds like he had a bad experience, but how many of this forum's board would have made the same mistakes he did?

I still maintain that you can buy a place down here and not have it turn into a fiasco.

Only buy a place that you love; the location, the lobby, the hallways, the views, the sunlight, the space, etc. (Member seemed lukewarm about the place he bought -- quite strange, actually to blame that on Mike. Once you saw the place, you should have said, "no, I want to see other apartments" Instead you bought.

If you are buying a place to rent out as a business BEWARE! Just check out how many furnished joints there are online -- you will be looking at many, many vacant weeks given all the competition.

So, I think that Member's expectations and actions were out of whack with how anyone should ever approach buying in a foreign country.

One can't hire a consultant to think for you. You still have to bring your own smarts / instincts to the table.

Buy a place in BA, furnish it, live in it, but don't expect to rent it. If you can (and you should be able to occasionally) that's gravy income. I also think that its no sure thing to presume that you are going to be able to sell it easily. You may well be able to. But I think purchasers here should be those who are looking for a longterm home away from home, with no concern over flipping it.

Just my two cents.

[Thomaso276]

Good post, sorry your investment experience was so negative. Here is the key phrase for all those who want to live or visit here:

"Its alway stick it to the foreigner as they have money"

I see it in all aspects of Arg. Life.