Corruption in Argentina

[Gestardo]

This is my first post.

This canard has been floating around internet for a decade in various guises although the numbers are always the same. First started about the US Congress. Canadian Parliament has been tarred with the same exact report. Lots of stuff out there on the Internet. Some of it is true.

On this particular item see this link:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/congress.asp

Don't think that you guys have cornered the market in corruption!

Can you imagine working for a Company that has a little more than 600 employees and has the following employee statistics?

• 29 have been accused of spouse abuse.

• 7 have been arrested for fraud.

• 9 have been accused of writing bad cheque's.

• 17 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses.

• 3 have done time for assault.

• 71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit.

• 14 have been arrested on drug-related charges.

• 8 have been arrested for shoplifting.

• 21 are currently defendants in lawsuits.

• 84 have been arrested for drink driving in the last year.

Which organization is this?

It's the 635 members of the UK House of Commons, the same group that cranks out hundreds of new laws each year designed to keep the rest of us Brits inline.

What a bunch of be*****ds we have running our country - it says it all.

And just to top all that they probably have the best 'corporate' pension scheme in the country!

Hotman.

[Argento]

"Not one single job must be lost." The leader in today's Herald is a statement made by Nestor Kirchner and certainly confirms how far removed his public statements are from commercial reality. His follow-up comment that he had "warned about the incorrect working of the international economy's structure", is also a good indication of his political know-how, not his economic savyness. I would like to comment on both statements.

Firstly though, of all the countries that survive on exports, Argentina should be the one in the best position to be least affected. The problem is one of modern derivative financial markets, credit and banking; to which Argentina was not greatly exposed, simply by virtue of its eight year exclusion from international credit markets and its almost nonexistent banking and stock markets. So only marginal exposure to the international crisis. Any crisis here is self-induced and unrelated to the rest of the world. And guess who dictated policy post the corralito (2002) No prizes if you said Nestor Kirchner. Certainly the downturn in agricultural commodities will hurt the Argentine economy but in reality, today's commodity prices are really better than the historical mean; not fantastic but certainly not basement prices.

Mr. Kirchner's claimed prescience in the context of today's statement is news to me. Any comments that he made in the past, (and he has made many) have been simply rhetoric to support and shore-up his set position ("lend us money") in relation to Argentina being closed out of international financial markets. To attempt to attribute those statements to the position of the current world recession is plainly claiming credit for something he did not do, and would put him, if it was true, to be nominated for the Nobel prize in Economics. In two words: Not likely.

A company's primary obligation is to their shareholders. Without profits and the subsequent dividends, no shareholders would risk their hard-earned capital. To expect companies to retain unneeded labour and disregard their obligations to their owners, can be a criminal offence in most western jurisdictions. By using the term 'businessmen', it creates the impression that most company owners are sole traders and have been so prosperous that they can afford to have labour sitting around fully paid. And that is obviously what the 'public' Mr. Kirchner would want. But most companies are not sole traders and labour is just one cost that must be reviewed when business declines. Rents, utilities, finance etc all need to be carefully adjusted to reflect their proportional costs to the end product of their company. And labour is no different. Social support in times of distress is the responsibility of society and good government ought to have contingency plans for just those situations. If he applies his 'public' economic savyness to his hotel interests, he will certainly go broke. After all, if there are no beds to be made and no rooms to clean, why would you have staff sitting around? All of which I am sure Mr. Kirchner is aware and of which I am also sure, that his labour inputs will be adjusted to the demands of his hotels.

Perhaps his inane public statements might vary from his private business. After all, how did he get so rich?

Argento.

Sent to the BA Herald today.

[Hotman 666]

Don't think that you guys have cornered the market in corruption!

Can you imagine working for a Company that has a little more than 600 employees and has the following employee statistics?

• 29 have been accused of spouse abuse.

• 7 have been arrested for fraud.

• 9 have been accused of writing bad cheque's.

• 17 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses.

• 3 have done time for assault.

• 71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit.

• 14 have been arrested on drug-related charges.

• 8 have been arrested for shoplifting.

• 21 are currently defendants in lawsuits.

• 84 have been arrested for drink driving in the last year.

Which organization is this?

It's the 635 members of the UK House of Commons, the same group that cranks out hundreds of new laws each year designed to keep the rest of us Brits inline.

What a bunch of be*****ds we have running our country - it says it all.

And just to top all that they probably have the best 'corporate' pension scheme in the country!

Hotman.

[El Alamo]

I have read with amusement stories of some extranjeros who think they are getting fair shakes when dealing with Argentinos. Of course, this is not possible. Argies are corrupt to the bone.

It is much like my contractor. He is an Argie. He tells me what the price will be to remodel my home. Of course the price is ridiculous but he will stick behind the price because he knows how to hire plumbers, electricians etc.

At the end of the day the price comes in exactly as my contractor said it would. However, the price is far higher than any Argie would pay for the work.

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that my Argie contractor has pocketed the difference between what I paid him and what he paid his workers.

Anyone with any insight will deduce that the primary pastime in Argentina is screwing foreigners.

Those without any insight will claim that the Argies follow fair and just business practices

Of course, you can try to hire the plumbers, electricians etc directly. This is unlikely to work because they will do the shoddiest work possible for inflated prices. Every fucking Argie is a genetically born thief - believe it or not.

At least your contractor can hold them to minimal standards of workmanship.

P.S. This is not to say Argentina is not a great place to live. It is.

This is to say the shortest book ever written was titled "Honest Argies I Have Known"

For a little comical relief I would appreciate a few testimonials from completely naive people recounting their splendid encounters with the honest and trustworthy Argies.

[Daddy Rulz]

Thanks Daddy Rulz for the link. Really enjoyed the documentary. Watched the whole 12 parts. Some of the interviewees had some fascinating comments. Well worth my time.

I live to serve.

[SmilesX]

Thanks Daddy Rulz for the link. Really enjoyed the documentary. Watched the whole 12 parts. Some of the interviewees had some fascinating comments. Well worth my time.

[Daddy Rulz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH6_i...eature=related

Its the first in a 12 parter outlining the steps to the meltdown of 2001. I found it interesting though in places the translation is weak. I wish my Spanish was as good as brother dickhead so I could have just listened.

[El Alamo]

Read this Ass Kisser from the BA Herald's "Your View" section. My guess is he will get some kind of appointment from CFK. I'm not sure what "Daub-and-Wattle" means, but I have a pretty good grasp on the term "Miracle". Wherever he is from in Europe must be hell. Or someplace where words matter more than results.

Also, CFK in "lacy panties" gives me chills.

This is a fairly accurate description of the Kirschners. How history will view them depends on how long they keep their phony / baloney con operation in power. They will not be judged by how they fundamentaly changed the train wreck known as Argentina.

The Kirschners have refused to make any fundamental changes to the economic Frankenstein known as Peronism.

They have kept themselves in power with mirrors, whistles, rubberbands and chewing gum. This worked because of increasing commodity prices that occurred during most of their administration.

The Kirschners are history. The peso will continue to devalue. Productivity and economic production will decrease. There will be blood in the streets.

How the Kirschners expected a different result without fundamentally changing the economy is beyond me.

But at the end of the day the Kirschners will be sipping Bloody Marys in a foreign country, basking in the sun, with big smiles. They will have had some 8 years (my estimate as to when their administration succumbs to riots in the streets) to rob the country blind and enrich themselves.

The Kirschners are not a new breed of politician. They are Mennon and every previous corrupt Argentine administration reborn.

[QuakHunter]

Read this Ass Kisser from the BA Herald's "Your View" section. My guess is he will get some kind of appointment from CFK. I'm not sure what "Daub-and-Wattle" means, but I have a pretty good grasp on the term "Miracle". Wherever he is from in Europe must be hell. Or someplace where words matter more than results.

Also, CFK in "lacy panties" gives me chills.

IN PRAISE OF THE KIRCHNERS.

As a part-time resident here, fleeing northern European winters annually, I describe Argentina's economic "miracle"to UK friends as a daub-and-wattle job.

Nevertheless, I do not hide my admiration for the Kirchners, in view of the difficult task facing anyone trying to run this country.

To have to harness a disparate assortment of latter-day Peronists, many of whom are not sure they are Peronists, with a few hundred bully boys (los gremios trade unionists) who need appeasing on a daily basis, is a huge task. But they are bright people.

Not Ivy League "smartie pants" clever. More down at the bottom, wooing on the streets, "lacy panties" style.

Comparing the incumbents of the Casa Rosada these past 20 years, the Kirchners may get a good history.

David Davis

[Thomaso276]

These investigations go on all the time and rarely result in anything of importance. Like the military junta guys being in jail 30 years after their crimes!

[Exon123]

Carrió accuses former president and other officials of irregularities.

Prosecutor targets K in graft probe.

Elisa Carrió, head of the coalition, sued officials and Kirchnerite businessmen over alleged irregularities in the construction of public works, housing programmes, oil exploitation contracts, gambling and transport.

Information in the case that would link Kirchner to the alleged corruption cases has reportedly been presented to the court by Carrió, following investigations conducted by lawmakers of the ARI (a centre-left party formerly led by Carrió) and the Civic Coalition.

After the judge's decision was announced, Carrió praised the actions of the judiciary and said "there is no other destination than jail for Kirchner.

"This is the best Christmas gift I ever received, the opening of the case means that the prosecutor has ordered to investigate into the accusations against Kirchner and his group" said Carrió during a radio interview.

Federal Judge Julián Ercolini yesterday formally accepted a request from prosecutor Gerardo Pollicita to start a probe into the actions of the alleged criminal organization formed by Kirchner, Planning Minister Julio De Vido, Transport Secretary Ricardo Jaime, Claudio Uberti (former head of the Occovi road watchdog.

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Looks like a scandle is on its way, the above is from todays Buenos Aires Hearld

Exom

[Spirit Rider]

Rock was 100% correct that it was about protecting jobs. However, extrapolate that to what it really means, POWER. When you have jobs to hand out you have patronage to control and ghost employees to put on the payroll and budgets to use to extract bribes from suppliers, etc.

[Thomaso276]

No, I understand about the politics here. My first year it was explained to me that although everyone likes to complain about corrupt innefficient gov't, they all aspire to get in on it. It goes back to how Spain treated the Americas, steal everything and ship it overseas, get your family positions of power and after a few years, get thrown out by the King for stealing, usually ratted out by the jealous guy who wants his cut. Of course, your family is still stealing and the next guy in charge does the same thing.

I was also advised that a person who hold political office as a result of being elected has some sort of immunity from criminal charges (maybe past charges, I am not sure) until they leave office. I recall reading something about this and was confused, but I think there are some immunity issues.

Gotta go, gonna start my campaign for city council in the neighborhood!

[Argento]

While I agree that the corruption here is overwhelming, let's not forget that it hits us in the USA as well. They difference is it is not as organized and when it is discovered someone gets jailed or at least charged. Can you say Governor Bulgdonovichski or whatever his name is? How about those LAPD cops charged for protecting rap groups several years ago, or NYPD cops working with drug dealers? Or some local hometown newspaper uncovering payoffs to building inspectors.

I think the biggest difference is that here EVERYONE associated with some approval or licensing authority can be bribed, while in the States you have to find that one person or small group who is available. For example try and pay off the next cop who stops you for a traffic violation in the States vs. Here. Which one do you think will be adding charges and taking you to jail? Same with customs or inspectors. You might have limited success in the USA, you have a 99% chance of success here.

One good bribe here is you can bribe chicas for sex!

Sure there is corruption in the USA as well as in most countries. Where I think you are wrong is in that you fail to understand that the political class here aspire to political power just so they can be bribed. It is a gigantic confidence trick played against the Argentine citizens who genuinely think the politicians are trying to change things for the better. If they change anything it is purely to enrich their own pockets. The pollies on the other hand do not have any humanity for their constituents. They are there just for the bribes and if they have to spin a bit about social justice and how bad other countries treat Argentina, they can do it with apparent conviction and with style. Just follow the trail on the Siemens affair and you will see that each successive administration took bribes at the Presidential level. No exceptions and that officials and functionaries lower down the food chain also had their snouts in the trough. These projects are created to develope a pipeline to feed the bribes to those in the foodchain. In the States, the small amount of government corruption is opportunist and severely punished in a social and economic sense. The only one of the Argentine Presidents in trouble with the law is Menem and that is related to illegal arms trading and the bribes he took there. Nothing is being done about the admissions Siemens has coughed up.

When you see perfectly good streets and curbing being replaced, you wonder about such politicians that can sanction such blatantly contrived contracts but continue to do nothing about the more than 200 children a month that die of malnutricion according to the World Health Organisation. They have no doubt about their priorities. It's get as much money as you can as quick as you can.

Argento

[Daddy Rulz]

Thanks Rock, and of course it had to do with protecting jobs.

I'm surprised that there aren't government-subsidized companies in Argentina still manufacturing buggy whips.

J

Sheesh read your own forum, look in the BDSM thread!