Corruption in Argentina

[Jackson]

Jackson,

RNP is Registro Nacional de la Personas; it is the government agency that is in charge of issuing DNI to both Argentines and foreigners. The reason they were against the project is because a digitized DNI would have streamlined the process and eliminated jobs, as it takes many less employees to enter data into a computer and print it out on a PVC card than to go through the long tenuous current DNI process, which involves manually attaching the photo with glue and handwriting all the applicants information in the DNI. All the information, photos, etc have to be certified with a manually placed stamp, all by several people who just sit around waiting to put that stamp in. Also, if any changed need to be made to your data or residency updates, you must again go and wait around for the RNP to manually write in the changes and then go by and have the guy sitting around with the stamp certify the new / updated info. The digitized DNI would have eliminated all these people sitting around, and thus jobs.

Suerte,

Rock Harders

Thanks Rock, and of course it had to do with protecting jobs.

I'm surprised that there aren't government-subsidized companies in Argentina still manufacturing buggy whips.

J

[Thomaso276]

While I agree that the corruption here is overwhelming, let's not forget that it hits us in the USA as well. They difference is it is not as organized and when it is discovered someone gets jailed or at least charged. Can you say Governor Bulgdonovichski or whatever his name is? How about those LAPD cops charged for protecting rap groups several years ago, or NYPD cops working with drug dealers? Or some local hometown newspaper uncovering payoffs to building inspectors.

I think the biggest difference is that here EVERYONE associated with some approval or licensing authority can be bribed, while in the States you have to find that one person or small group who is available. For example try and pay off the next cop who stops you for a traffic violation in the States vs. Here. Which one do you think will be adding charges and taking you to jail? Same with customs or inspectors. You might have limited success in the USA, you have a 99% chance of success here.

One good bribe here is you can bribe chicas for sex!

[Rock Harders]

Jackson,

RNP is Registro Nacional de la Personas; it is the government agency that is in charge of issuing DNI to both Argentines and foreigners. The reason they were against the project is because a digitized DNI would have streamlined the process and eliminated jobs, as it takes many less employees to enter data into a computer and print it out on a PVC card than to go through the long tenuous current DNI process, which involves manually attaching the photo with glue and handwriting all the applicants information in the DNI. All the information, photos, etc have to be certified with a manually placed stamp, all by several people who just sit around waiting to put that stamp in. Also, if any changed need to be made to your data or residency updates, you must again go and wait around for the RNP to manually write in the changes and then go by and have the guy sitting around with the stamp certify the new / updated info. The digitized DNI would have eliminated all these people sitting around, and thus jobs.

Suerte,

Rock Harders

[Jackson]

The RNP was against the project.

Hi Spirit Rider,

What's the "RNP", and why would they or anybody else have been against the project.

Thanks,

Jackson

[QuakHunter]

I was debating which thread to post this in. Corruption won. From the Herald. This is filed under the "You Think?" category; especially the last comment.

Duhalde: 'I regret backing Kirchner'

Former president Eduardo Duhalde said he regrets having supported former president Néstor Kirchner and harshly criticized the administration of President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, in an interview published yesterday by La Nación newspaper.

Duhalde said he regretted having sponsored Kirchner's presidential candidacy back in 2003 and added that Kirchner was the one "who disappointed him the most."

"Some people change with power," he commented. Duhalde said that "everything was fine until Kirchner decided to be the economy minister."

"There's practically nothing good," he replied when asked what he thought about the President's administration, and said, as he had done earlier this year, that presenting her as presidential candidate was "a historic mistake" by Kirchner.

"It's a government that does not think strategically," Duhalde said.

[Rock Harders]

Mongers,

This type of deeply-imbedded corruption is the primary reason why Argentina has absolutely no future despite its reasonably educated population, abundance of natural resources, and favorable climate. Those who hold political and / or institutional power in Argentina have zero interest in furthering the greater good of the state and its citizens; their only interest is to maintain power and position for themselves and their partners in crime in order to steal as much money as possible. The fact that the people of Argentina accept this unbelievable level of corruption is truly astounding and speaks to the very corrupt nature of the Argentine society and culture. Lying, deception, laziness, thievery, and outright lack of integrity define the Argentine cultural behavior above all other characteristics. The people put up with the corruption because it is a reflection of the behavior that they find acceptable and is commonplace here.

In my opinion, in a democracy the people generally get the government they deserve and the government that best reflects them. In the USA, Bush was elected and then re-elected as himself a reflection of what more than half of the USA had become: a nation of unbelievably ignorant, white trash jesus freaks. Fortunately, eight years of Bush woke up the American people from their ignorant state and amends are beginning to be made. Argentina, too, had gotten the government they deserved. In Argentina, unfortunately, the Crisis of 2001 was not long lasting or painful enough to bury the political robber class. New robbers just moved north from the land of penguins, where they had been robbing away from the national spotlight for a long time.

But, as El Alamo always says, the fact that Argentina is so ridiculously screwed up and hopeless is the reason there will always be $20 USD pussy available, whether it be denominated in pesos, australes, patacones, or whatever their next currency denomination may be. The total lack of socioeconomic mobility (a situation perpetuated by the robber political class) means there will be busloads of 18 year old pussy showing up at the Retiro bus station on a daily basis looking to spread their legs for me, you, and anyone else who wants to spend $20 USD for a piece of pussy.

Suerte,

Rock Harders

[Spirit Rider]

Actually, this contract was my introduction to the country and women of Argentina (my lucky day) I was project liason from my company to the RNP. I spent 40 weeks in BsAs from fall of 1999 til spring of 2001.

I was livin large, $4K / month penthouse apartment on Posadas (one block from Padio Bullrich) full salary, per diem, weekly bonus, milestone bonuses, company driver, etc, etc, etc. Let me tell you if I got non-pro chcas to the apartment (the typical exclamation was, cinco banos! It was a done deal!

This was two companies ago. They were responsible for the imaging component of the project. Not considering the corruption in the acquisition of the contract. The project was a cluster F$#K from the git go.

Siemens paid the entire front end cost of the project $250 Million (we got paid) Then they were supposed to be paid $30.00 for each DNI produced. However, they did not manage their customer well at all. First, they agreed to have the RNP supply government union employees (who ended up constantly on strike) mostly because they weren't getting paid.

Then, they caved every step of the way. The RNP was against the project, so every step along the way they were an obstacle. What should have been maybe 8 different application types ended up being like 75. They didn't listen to us about form design even though we were responsible for the handwritten recognition and key from image. Even though our systems were far from perfect, it was the poor company responsible for the database who could never get the complexity of 75 application types functioning.

The project had problems all the way along. The RNP changed operational considerations after the design and a lot of the development was done, causing major retooling. The delapitated facilities, continual power disruptions, theft of key equipment from PFA guarded facilties (the processors and hard drives disappeared from 120 systems one weekend) RNP obstacles, etc.

The system never really got off the ground. I think maybe 5000 DNIs were produced before Menem left office and then the project just went into a holding pattern until it was finally cancelled.

So does this sound like the Argentina that many of you know so well or WHAT!

[Argento]

Today's "Clarin" had the breakdown of how the coimas (bribes) were distributed by Siemens for the contract to provide a new system of National Identity documents. Siemens were forced to admit their corrupt behavior by action in the USA. Not too many people believe this is the full extent so they are saying "possible coimas". Probably much more.

The contract was for U$1.26 billion and was started during the presidency of Carlos Menen. Unfortunately for Siemens, the contract extended past Menem's term and they had to pay out the next few administrations as well, but they are not too forthcoming with the truth or quantity. Probably being threatened with something dire if they are too frank.

Here's the distribution admitted by Siemens.

President Carlos Menem. U$16 million plus another U$30 million distributed to him and his cabinet. Total U$46 million.

Minister for the Interior. Carlos Corach U$9.75 million.

Director of Immigration Hugo Franco. U$9.75 million.

President Fernando De La Rua. U$6 million.

President Eduardo Duhalde. Admitted but not yet quantified.

President Nestor Kirchner. Admitted but not yet quantified.

Functionaries. U$15.7 million.

Lobbyists. U$35.1 million.

Other entities. U$54.9 million.

Not including what Duhalde and Kirchner squeezed when it was their turn at the top, it comes to U$177.2 million dollars.

Siemens admits in the USA to paying out over U$1.4 billion dollars in bribes to get U$4.283 billion dollars of business. That is right on the button of the generally accepted 33 1/3% that is allowed here for coimas when bidding for public works. Without exception.

So probably the true figure for the Argentine DNI contract coimas is more than U$420 million dollars plus the dough for the later administrations, no doubt added to the contract price in the form of 'extras'. I wonder who got the extra money that no-one is prepared to spill the beans on.

I also wonder if the proposed new law allowing "black money" to be repatriated without penalty or questions isn't a simple device for these corrupt bastards to wash the money and bring it back in. Menen cheerfully admits he received over U$1 billion dollars from "generous friends" while he was President. But he claims he never took a bribe. After this Siemens admission, he story is looking a little flaky.

Argento

[CarneValistico]

It is everywhere more or less the same, black accounts in Switzerland etc.

And everywhere is the possebility to make some extra bucks. I read today in the newspaper that the Deutsche bank said that Argentinian economy is more influenced by fraude than Italy, which will mean something.

I mean forgetting cash is one thing, but could it be that way? Its not a typicall female behaviour - rather something like a males aktion in a rush I would say. Maybe I will hear the solution when I am finaly in BA.

[El Perro]

As I read it, the money was a loan from her brother so that she could buy some real estate. The deal didn't happen, so she stuck the money in her work bathroom and "forgot about it". Anyway, there is going to be a full investigation which might get to the bottom of it. Particularly considering that she is under nobody's wing. Of course, if it IS kickback money, maybe the kickbackers could influence the investigation with some more free flowing moolah.

If the Kirchners and their entourage weren't crooked before he gained the presidency, it sure looks like they have been heading down that road for awhile now. They got the look of people who fell head over heels in love with power and control and haven't yet been sated. They have a bunch of ass kissing, minor league beauracrats doing their dirty work for them. Though it pains me to say it, NEVER underestimate the potential for graft, fraud and corruption by ex leftists. They fall fast and hard when they get a taste of the high life! And, most of the right wingers have a longer history of knowing how to be more discrete in their shenanigans.

[Hound]

What I read was that the money was a loan TO her brother, not FROM. The real estate deal fell through and she still was in possesion of of the $$. Plausible? Perhaps. If this was indeed the case then no need to resign. Something amiss. The Herald article puts the loan the other way around. To be continued.

[El Perro]

. Didn't she said that it has been a loan from her brother? Maybe now he is going to face troubles to declare where the cash comes from, in several currencies.

Politicians are only humans, everywhere in the world;-)

It appears now that little, if any of that loot came from her brother. Looks like sis is out on a creaky limb.

[CarneValistico]

Didn't she said that it has been a loan from her brother? Maybe now he is going to face troubles to declare where the cash comes from, in several currencies.

Politicians are only humans, everywhere in the world;-)

[Exon123]

What I found interesting about the event was it was a bag of mixed currency's, quoting the Herald.

"Late last month, police conducting a routine security check found a brown paper bag containing the cash in Argentine pesos, US dollars and euros in a bathroom cabinet inside Miceli's offices"

Peso's, Dollars & Euro's, Thats a kick back if I ever heard of one. Three different types of currency's, if the transaction she spoke of was real there would have been only Peso's. In a paper bag in the bathroom no less.

Sorta reminds me of the US Congressman under investagation the FBI found 80 thousand dollars cash in his ice box.

Exon

[El Perro]

Rumor has it that she knew the inflation rate was so high, the money was cheaper than toilet paper.

Funny. It will be amusing to see how that situation unfolds. Maybe alot of folks with egg on their face.