Words of wisdom from real estate guru "Saint"

[Tmontana]

You kill me. "Cock in your Paw". Heheh Could be a great name for a British style Mongering Pub:)

Of course the picture would have to be cleaned up for the kiddies. A "Hen in Hand" is another good one:)

Tony

[Argento]

Beccar is San Isidro, one of the best Municipalities in the whole of gran BA and about 35 to 40 minutes from Micro Centro by public transport and about 45 minutes by car. It takes longer to go Microcentro in many parts of Capital.

The going rate for 1 m2 in Belgrano or Palermo is not 800 dollar, but a lot closer to twice that amount

I beg to differ. When was the last time you looked at PH's in Palermo? Or better still, when was the last time you stopped off and spent some time there? There are any amount of 80m2 to 100m2 PHs available around here. If you got off the train and looked in at the lists on display at the ten million real estate shopfronts, the prices rarely exceed U$80k. Oh, and I forgot, you must think that you are the only person who has travelled from Beccar to the Microcentre. Sure you can do it in 45 minutes but not in normal hours. And as you probably have your cock in your paw as you are driving, you probably run a few red lights in the excitement, saving even more time.

Argento.

[Tmontana]

Is a great place to look for properties that can be rented when you are not here. There are still many pretty good deals if you are prepared to look at properties while here and do some leg work yourself. I have a place in Congresso on the park at Rivadavia. The building I bought into is in good shape. This is very importante if you are buying in BsAs. Make sure the building is is overall good shape (if you are buying onto neo-classical French architecture like I did) Find out what the fees are. In my building for exampelle we pay no municipal taxes because of the age of the building and the fact it is a landmark building. The "La Inmobliari" building at the bottom of Congresso park is an example where there is a large apartment available for a very reasonable 150k$ for about 2500 sq ft (~250 sq m - I know it is not exact) with a very large outdoor terrace, but the building is in poor shape (La Moncloa restaurante is in the bottom) I like the views in Congresso but the traffic is loud and I am at the top of my building (my bedroom is like 13 floors UP) Anyway, a find like the one I bought in New York or Europe in any of the major cities I would care to live in would have been HUGE - certainly over one million euros or one million US$ and I ought for a fraction of that. I think Palermo Hollywood is very good right now. Francis Ford Coppola certainly thinks so and so do I. Palermo SoHo not so much and San Telmo - stay away - its too far down yet. Recoletta is overpriced but there are some good deals and Belgrano and Palermo in general are good places to scout.

Check out the real estate listings in Craigslis.org under world cities - Beunos Aires and Suerte

[Redondo]

www.beccarplaza.com

[Redondo]

CarneValistico. Buy a map of greater Bs As. I am not so sure that you would want to live 30k North-West of the downdown area. It's Mum and Dad and the 3 little kiddies stuff. And you are 1 hour away at a minimum from down-town. And there is sweet fuck-all in between that is worth that effort. And remember, gated communities here are not all that secure. As a foreigner here only occasionally, the guys on security will pass that information on and their friends will turn you over on a regular basis, stealing everything of value including the wiring, wrecking your house in the process.

Buy a PH which is a usually a single entrance to 3 or 4 dwellings, usually all ground floor. Suburbs to look in are Palermo and Belgrano. Get a quiet street with no buses. You will get good security, most are owner occupied and so have a vested interest in the security and ambiance and the price for one in fair condition, say about 100m2, will be about U$80k. And down-town is a 20 minute ride with a variety of transport. But Beccar, God forbid. By the tenor of Redondo's posts, he could probably sell you one at a good price. At least for some peculiar reason, he offered his own opinion. Maybe you could share with him!

Suerte.

Argento

Beccar is San Isidro, one of the best Municipalities in the whole of gran BA and about 35 to 40 minutes from Micro Centro by public transport and about 45 minutes by car. It takes longer to go Microcentro in many parts of Capital.

The going rate for 1 m2 in Belgrano or Palermo is not 800 dollar, but a lot closer to twice that amount

[Argento]

Redondo, I will tell you early enough when I come down to BA. If it is possible for you - you may assist me in that. I will try to get Roxannas driving skills, so that we are able to look arround. If that sounds good for you, you may PM me.

Thank you, C.

CarneValistico. Buy a map of greater Bs As. I am not so sure that you would want to live 30k North-West of the downdown area. It's Mum and Dad and the 3 little kiddies stuff. And you are 1 hour away at a minimum from down-town. And there is sweet fuck-all in between that is worth that effort. And remember, gated communities here are not all that secure. As a foreigner here only occasionally, the guys on security will pass that information on and their friends will turn you over on a regular basis, stealing everything of value including the wiring, wrecking your house in the process.

Buy a PH which is a usually a single entrance to 3 or 4 dwellings, usually all ground floor. Suburbs to look in are Palermo and Belgrano. Get a quiet street with no buses. You will get good security, most are owner occupied and so have a vested interest in the security and ambiance and the price for one in fair condition, say about 100m2, will be about U$80k. And down-town is a 20 minute ride with a variety of transport. But Beccar, God forbid. By the tenor of Redondo's posts, he could probably sell you one at a good price. At least for some peculiar reason, he offered his own opinion. Maybe you could share with him!

Suerte.

Argento

[CarneValistico]

Redondo, I will tell you early enough when I come down to BA. If it is possible for you - you may assist me in that. I will try to get Roxannas driving skills, so that we are able to look arround. If that sounds good for you, you may PM me.

Thank you, C.

[Redondo]

Sunday's edition of La Nacion (Argentininian newspaper) has a chapter of about 20 pages with all the information of countries (gated communities) in greater BA you could possibly want

[CarneValistico]

Dear friend,

This is a classical case of beining " blind " on one eye - yes, a little house or a sunny apartment in such a " gated comunity " could be a smart option, cool man!

I am a builder and know how to build a wall, but a keyready solution, ie, such as you suggested, is a very nice compromise, arrive, grab the key open the entrance and thats it, meanwhile its guarded and the price you anounced is reasonable.

Would you please tell me where could I find such an estate, and maybe you have some websites for me?

If I am going to signe a contract you will not be forgoten, I promisse you that!

Thanks again man! Yours, C.

[Redondo]

Dear fellows,

First of all thank you to all the guys who wrote the pros and conts regarding real estate in BA.

Since a few months I am considering buying a nice apartment in BA, Last year allready I wanted to do so, but instead of arriving in BA, I opened a new company in Moldova. Ok, so far so good.

In the meantime the $ against Euro changed downwards, and I ask myself if it is now the right time to act. Its realy funny to read the stuff from July last year and what turned into reality now. There had been the metapher of " blood in the street " I. E. Waiting for falling prices, and as far as I could read now, its quite.

Gettingthis direction. I have no intentions in renting this apartment, and I don't care about inflation, I am 46 years and just want to have a " stronghold " here, while I am working in EE.

So guys, 80-120m2, 3-4 rooms, (may I dream of a little penthouse or maisonett / splittlevel apartment? What is the actual price or shall I buy a piece of land in the nearer outscirts, and build a little bungalow there?

Muchas gracias amigos! I wish you all a wonderful weekend, yours C.

Somewhere between 800 and 3500 dollar a square meter. It's hard to say anything if you don't tell where you want to live but most foreigner live probally in Barrio Norte or Palermo and prices there are between 1500 and 2500 a m2

I would think that buying a piece of land is not really smart as you are a foreigner with very little experience about local laws, customs, etc, etc. The only area where you probally want to live is zona norte and there is very little room and lands are expensive.

Maybe a barrio-privado is an idea? It's a gated communitiy with security and often a golf course, swimming-pool, tennis-courts, etc. They are mainly in the suburbs near a highway and prices probally start at 70 to 80.000 dollar for a small home with a small garden

[CarneValistico]

Dear fellows,

First of all thank you to all the guys who wrote the pros and conts regarding real estate in BA.

Since a few months I am considering buying a nice apartment in BA, Last year allready I wanted to do so, but instead of arriving in BA, I opened a new company in Moldova. Ok, so far so good.

In the meantime the $ against Euro changed downwards, and I ask myself if it is now the right time to act. Its realy funny to read the stuff from July last year and what turned into reality now. There had been the metapher of " blood in the street " I. E. Waiting for falling prices, and as far as I could read now, its quite.

Gettingthis direction. I have no intentions in renting this apartment, and I don't care about inflation, I am 46 years and just want to have a " stronghold " here, while I am working in EE.

So guys, 80-120m2, 3-4 rooms, (may I dream of a little penthouse or maisonett / splittlevel apartment?) what is the actual price or shall I buy a piece of land in the nearer outscirts, and build a little bungalow there?

Muchas gracias amigos! I wish you all a wonderful weekend, yours C.

[Precocious One]

All these guys who now claim to be market predictors and make spectacular killings by buying cheap and selling dear are just in the main, bullshitters. The local guys who do have experience are finishing up their existing projects and getting out. Why you ask? Because they can add up and figure out exchange rates, not only in U$ dollars but also in cross rates with other currencies. The truth is that property has increased in value, but not across the board, only in select localities and only in U$ dollar terms. In Euros, prices for property in the Federal Capital have fallen back, same for Canada, Australia and Japanese currencies. Property prices do not give any yield of any significance. A case in point. A good friend bought an apartment in Belgrano Bajo in 1992 for U$90K. After 16 years that is about its price today. It currently rents for U$600 per month plus expenses, actually paid in Arg pesos. Three years ago the rent was U$350. So this year's rent is U$7200, a yield of under 8%. Maintainance costs in the 16 years are upwards of U$20K. Against the Euro, the capital value has been reduced by 20% and so the reality is, the investment has lost value. And I am not factoring in the current 25% internal inflation which sure makes it look even worse.

Another point. Somewhere along the way, these guys who claim they are making the big bucks, are confused about what is the property and what is the business. Running a serviced apartment business is exactly that. A serviced apartment business. And I notice they don't deduct the management costs and the weeks where they have no guests. Hell you don't need to own the apartment to rent it out short-term. None of the successful hotel chains owns their hotels. They merely operate and pay rent as do most of the apartment / hotels in the States and Europe. Property investment is about capital growth and a yield on current value, over and above inflation.

So will all these big-noters please post their predictions for the next 2 years, expressing the yields in a convertible currency and what the capital value of the property will be in 2010. Before the game, not on the Monday morning after. Then we can see if they are as good as they claim.

Argento

Great post. Many areas in the US, namely FL, CA and AZ are going to be selling for well under just the build costs.

And we are talking relatively new construction in both RRE and CRE.

Actually, some of these areas already are.

[Redondo]

I for one think that it could be a good investment to buy an appartment in zona norte. There is a new project that sells around 1300 US dollar a square meter in Beccar and there are hardly appartments in the whole of zona norte and I am sure it can always be sold or rented out (1200/1500 peso excluding expenses) and you have a new appartment.

With prices of around 1200 to 1500 dollar there is still room for improvement and I don't think there is a lot of room if you go upwards the 2500 dollar like in some parts of Capital

[Redondo]

210.000 dollar at 1st of April was 133.000 Euro, another huge decline

[Redondo]

Great point of view Argento,

Yes, separating what is a service with increased value, and what is an investiement is a very good point. I think one of the problems for a better value on the property in Argentina it's the currency it's too attached to the US dollar. Cavallo (former econ minister) proposed in 2001 to attach the currency to an international conversion of currencies, but he did that when De la Rua was about to fall, however, Cavallo was a visionary. He did the law for peso to dollar 1=1 conversion in the 90's /

Regardless, an apartment in 2004 value was around 1.100 per sq meter and today it's 2.100 per sq meter. USD. If you invested USD, you should have a good return for your investment, but as I menctioned before, the US dollar was devaluated and that's the real problem.

1-1-2004: 100 m2 x 1100 dollar = 111.000 dollar - 88.000 euro.

1-1-2008: 100 m2 x 2100 dollar = 210.000 dollar - 142.000 euro.

60% over 4 years, seems like an ok deal.

Cost: 300 dollar x 12 months x 4 years = 14.400 dollar.

That would be a nett yield of over 10 percent per year, even with a declining dollar and no income on rents.

I do however think that it's really hard to sell in Argentina, that real prices are lower and that risks are a lot higher.

In Holland it's fairly easy to get 6 to 8% of nett yield on real - estate investment and about 3 to 4% if you have an account at AAA rated bank. I would think that kind of investments are a lot easier and I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

The picture changes if you pay under the table, which is pretty common in Argentina and a lot harder in the first world