Hassle of restaurant service

[Geo Eye]

Monger 514. See what I mean. Facundo, my point exactly,

A product of the third world, a test product who never has left his humble 30 mile radius. These type of people are needed of course to do the jobs others refuse to do such as clean after us.

[Facundo]

Nobody who knows me personally (and that includes many fellow mongers) would ever accuse me of being an Ugly American. Nor would the people at the restaurant. You are free to go ask them.

Thanks for your informative contribution to the forum.

Monger, please try an experiment. Read your post as if it was written not by you, but by a stranger. What do you see or feel? Also, read post #17 by "Blind Eyes" or "Blind Fool", and tell me if the understanding of cultures is not the last frontier that needs to be explored and understood?

I have no doubt you are a nice guy who is sensitive to cultures. However, sometimes we feel so right about something, incluiding myself, that make us a little blind. Maybe, it can be said, we have a litlle bit of the "Blind Fool" or "Geo Eye" in us.

Suerte

[Guiller]

The elevator does not go all the way to the top for most of these people.

The good thing about this country is the hookers.

Thanks, at least one good thing! As for the elevator, it's true. The British heritage here, the only reason for the third place in the 2007 Rugby world Cup of this excecrable Nation, actually made most people to keep attached to the lift.

Cheers!

[Geo Eye]

Hey Monger 514. I feel you. I know what you go tru. I have a number of stories similar to your's, but I have realized you cannot change their way of customer service. It is the other side of the world afterall. The elevator does not go all the way to the top for most of these people.

The good thing about this country is the hookers.

Hookers everywhre, 20 yr old for $25, you cannot get that.

In the state, I guess that along makeup for everything else.

[Monger514]

a true "Ugly American".

Nobody who knows me personally (and that includes many fellow mongers) would ever accuse me of being an Ugly American. Nor would the people at the restaurant. You are free to go ask them.

Thanks for your informative contribution to the forum.

[Facundo]

I'm sure nobody wants to hear another one of these, but today I had lunch at a local place in Recoleta that is patronized by many board members. The food is usually pretty good there, today being no exception. I ordered french fries with my meal, and, as I've ranted about so many times before, BA is not a good place for people who love to put ketchup on their fries. No hay! But we have mayonnaise! My wingman explained to me that here for some reason the locals like to put mayonnaise on their fries. Well, that's fine, but why wouldn't you have ketchup? Because most people here prefer mayonnaise? You should still carry ketchup. Look, if I go into a place in the States and order fries and ask for mayonaise to put on them, the waiter may look at me a little strange, but he will go fetch the mayonnaise. It will be in stock.

I got up and walked over to a supermercado I knew was right around the corner, and bought a bottle of ketchup. My wingman timed it, and it took me less than five minutes. Of course the restaurant could have sent somebody (it was not particularly busy at the moment, either) But it never occurred to them to do so, in order to meet a simple customer request.

I told them to keep the bottle for me so I can have ketchup when I return and the waiter put my name on it.

My wingman, who lives here, thinks I'm a little nuts. But everybody here should try to do what they can to make the restaurants improve their service.

The fries were good.

Rant over.

MG314

Monger, upon your return from the supermercado with ketchup in hand you felt proud, you felt superior to the waiter for having shown him how efficient Americans are, you felt you showed everyone in the restaurant you are a man of action, how you in a simple gesture brought civilazation to the ignorant lazy natives. Monger, how proud you must have been plunking the bottle of ketchup on the table showing everyone in the restaurant your conquest. I am sure you felt proud; you felt everything except you did not feel that for that moment you were, "The Ugly American".

I remember once walking by a hotel in Firenze, Italy and overhearing an overweight foreigner, shirt unbuttoned at the belly, hair combed from the back and side of his head to cover the large bald spot, complain to his wife that "there wasn't nothing on television". This culturally ignorant person was complaining about the lack of shows on the television while being in a city that has 30% of the world's most famous and valued art, great restaurants, and rich history.

I can see the waiter thinking you are a "hijo de puta", you are a "villero" (from the villa) and patrons thinking that you are a Neanderthal, a true "Ugly American". I can't imagine many that day didn't think, "Yanqui, vete", Yankee, go home.

[Member #3314]

I have a similar problem. I like ranch dressing with my fries, or salad.

Not here. They have no idea what the hidden valley is.

When in rome is the saying.

Garlic mayo fries are a great runner up.

Different places offer different things, if you don't like it stay home and get the same old shit. When I am in japan I am not asking for ranch, I get wasabi with the fries. Although japan does have catchup.

When I travel to a foreign land other than my own I don't expect to have the same comforts of my home country. I prefer to adapt to the local culture and blend in.

[Moore]

I'm sure nobody wants to hear another one of these, but today I had lunch at a local place in Recoleta that is patronized by many board members. The food is usually pretty good there, today being no exception. I ordered french fries with my meal, and, as I've ranted about so many times before, BA is not a good place for people who love to put ketchup on their fries. No hay! But we have mayonnaise! My wingman explained to me that here for some reason the locals like to put mayonnaise on their fries. Well, that's fine, but why wouldn't you have ketchup? Because most people here prefer mayonnaise? You should still carry ketchup. Look, if I go into a place in the States and order fries and ask for mayonaise to put on them, the waiter may look at me a little strange, but he will go fetch the mayonnaise. It will be in stock.

I got up and walked over to a supermercado I knew was right around the corner, and bought a bottle of ketchup. My wingman timed it, and it took me less than five minutes. Of course the restaurant could have sent somebody (it was not particularly busy at the moment, either) But it never occurred to them to do so, in order to meet a simple customer request.

I told them to keep the bottle for me so I can have ketchup when I return and the waiter put my name on it.

My wingman, who lives here, thinks I'm a little nuts. But everybody here should try to do what they can to make the restaurants improve their service.

The fries were good.

Rant over.

MG314

Ketchup is a standard item for anyplace in USA. Not so in Argentina. An Argentine probably couldn't fathom a restaurant not carrying olive oil, wine, fresh bread, bottled water, or espresso - try demanding those items in every US restaurant. They won't run out and get it for you either.

Be like a local next time and get your fries "a la provenzal" - topped with fresh parsley and garlic.

[Guiller]

>> The importa question is, what is behind all this? Globalization, and, of course, desperation for making money of some people with lots of them.

No offense, but I believe that statement is completely false.

And of course, without offense I disagree with you! That's the wonderful side of life: diversity, lack of unanimity in judging complex processes like the ones that happen in societies and economies. The good thing for me is that I can express this idea freely in this country, whereas in others, well, people give a bad look at you!

Anyway, having lived in other societies, my general advise is to be flexible and donñt try to be too picky. For example, don't read the menu. Call the waitress / waiter and ask for a suggestion.

All the best

[El Queso]

Wingman's addition to the ketchup incident

This restaurant has always had ketchup in the past whenever I've asked for it (which I normally do, because I, as well, like ketchup on my fries) but today they simply didn't have it in stock. However, they didn't lead us on in this case, told us right out they didn't carry it.

Nah, I don't think Monger's crazy, not really. I know what it's like to ask for something and not be able to have it, when that is a very important part of your tasting experience. I think I've just learned to adjust to restaurants here, having lived here for nearly a year now.

Another comment - I don't think you will find many restaurants in the States that will happily take a bottle of ketchup that one has purchased from a nearby grocery store, put the patron's name on it, and store it for the future return of the patron. Of course, we have yet to see if that bottle of ketchup will be available on the next visit.

Also, I fully agree that as in the spinach incident, they should NEVER answer in the affirmative that they have something they don't have. In this case, I really doubt the owners would be forcing their staff to reply affirmatively in all cases, the owners being Amercian. And even if the owners are Argentinos and require something like this, that then would not be a slur on the waitperson, but rather the owners / managers, and the result still the same. I'm in complete agreement with Monger on this one.

[Monger514]

I'm sure nobody wants to hear another one of these, but today I had lunch at a local place in Recoleta that is patronized by many board members. The food is usually pretty good there, today being no exception. I ordered french fries with my meal, and, as I've ranted about so many times before, BA is not a good place for people who love to put ketchup on their fries. No hay! But we have mayonnaise! My wingman explained to me that here for some reason the locals like to put mayonnaise on their fries. Well, that's fine, but why wouldn't you have ketchup? Because most people here prefer mayonnaise? You should still carry ketchup. Look, if I go into a place in the States and order fries and ask for mayonaise to put on them, the waiter may look at me a little strange, but he will go fetch the mayonnaise. It will be in stock.

I got up and walked over to a supermercado I knew was right around the corner, and bought a bottle of ketchup. My wingman timed it, and it took me less than five minutes. Of course the restaurant could have sent somebody (it was not particularly busy at the moment, either). But it never occurred to them to do so, in order to meet a simple customer request.

I told them to keep the bottle for me so I can have ketchup when I return and the waiter put my name on it.

My wingman, who lives here, thinks I'm a little nuts. But everybody here should try to do what they can to make the restaurants improve their service.

The fries were good.

Rant over.

MG314

[Monger514]

>> The importa question is, what is behind all this? Globalization, and, of course, desperation for making money of some people with lots of them.

No offense, but I believe that statement is completely false. Anytime you have shortages, look for government controls to explain them. The problem is not that people in business want to make money, it's that the market answers the friction between supply and demand by adjusting the price (higher or lower) In a free market, shortages are temporary. In a market troubled by artificial intervention (in whatever form, including monkeying with the money supply) shortages are chronic.

In any event, this is all utterly besides the point. The point is not that the restaurant did not have spinach. If they couldn't acquire spinach that day (though not because of the evils of globalization - please) then that is out of their control, and I don't hold it against them. Nor does this have anything to do with spinach being on the menu, with all due respect to Andres (and I do mean that seriously, he is a greatly informative poster).

The problem is, the waitress should not say there is spinach, accept an order for it, and repeatedly affirm that the order is on its way right up until the end of the meal. It's just that simple.

This restaurant, by the way, is not some out of the way local place, but rather one that caters to Americans as well as locals. I haven't named it because I like the owners and do not wish to hurt their business (not that I really think this would, but still...). I hope they have a sense of humor and will rectify the situation, because if they can grasp how important service is and use it to distinguish their restaurant from the other ones all around them, then I and others are more likely to patronize them, and they will make more money. Their "greed" will be rewarded by the market and their competitors will have to think about providing better service.

[Guiller]

Hi,

A good advice is to try to follow a bit the local news of the places one goes as a visitor (I assume that this is your condition given that you reported this incident as something not normal), given that local situations could be widlely different. In the case of Argentina, there is a quite stresfull shortage of vegetables available to the local population. Everybody here suffers from that. Last week all the news where discussing the "war against the tomato", whose price for 1 Kg went from 4 ARS 1 month ago to 18 ARS last week. So, local people eliminate tomato from their diet until the price gets back to a normal level. Restaurat owners also have to face this problem, but they have a printed menu and I guess they wouldn't like to change it every month or so. Keeping the prices they announce could lead them to make less money than what they expect. What would you do in their place? Probably what they do. Most people react the same way to external constraints. The price I gave you means that 1 Kg of tomatos costs more than 1 Kg of good beef. The importa question is, what is behind all this? Globalization, and, of course, desperation for making money of some people with lots of them. In this case, the people to blame are the distributors who bought the tomatos to the producer and charged a 300 % price increase to the groceries. The reason for this logic is that is better bussines to export to China and other countries in the need of food, but the goverment puts some limits into what amount of the produce could be exported. Therefore, the large scale distributors simply put the pricing for the local market at dollar value, as if they were exporting.

Spinach was very cheap three weeks ago and I bought a lot. Last Sunday I went to the large supermarket I use for my shopping and there was no spinach! I bought beet instead and changed my menu.

All the best

[El Aleman]

Andres,

I have no idea, in which restaurant this poetic episode took place. And, before I go on commenting, I have to concede that you are nearly completely right. And if it was a place that is off the tourist tracks, and still caters to Argentinean people at prices they can, even with difficulties, afford, you are 100% right.

There is just one thing:

Due to inflation, which has been exorbitant especially in high class restaurants in Buenos Aires (I would say 30% within the last year) these places are quickly approaching the price level of similar establishments in the U. S. Or Europe.

And if I pay the same as at home, I expect the same level of service. It's that simple.

2 centavos (with or without spinache)

De.

El Alemán.

Who still likes this city very much, and still thinks that Buenos Aires is one of the best places in the world to eat well.

[Monger514]

Advice: Order what is in the menu, and preferably the "day specials" (menú del día) A variation of "In Rome, do what Romans do".

Andres

Cream spinach is on the menu.