Interesting Article on Argentina

[Andres]

The cases reported in the CONADEP are the only cases. Just imagine for a moment over 20 thousand families with a disappeared member and not one coming forward to complain about the absence of their family member in the report!

I know the case of a real family entirely kidnapped. They had a nice small company and had nothing to do with politics, but some criminals in the "Task Forces" thought that their "patriotic services" could be paid by seizing their assets and evaporating them.

In fact, many of these criminal bands working for the Armed Forces, when democracy came back, started kidnapping wealthy executives (Sivak, Neuman, etc) Do a search for the Arquimedes Puccio gang on Internet.

As in many societies, these kind of bloody processes benefit criminals first.

I won't give here the real name of the family, but I invite you to revise the most representative cases to see that many people from the same family were kidnapped. For instance, the one from De Vincenti-Villaflor family.

The use of the passive voice (it is estimated) is one of the most common ways of creating fallacies.

Who estimates? And using what information does that person reach the mentioned estimation?

More than 60% of those missing were low to intermediate level union representatives, mostly coming from uneducated homes. Not surprising then that many cases from these kind of families were unreported.

The issue with the disappearances is that - First, there is no death penalty in Argentina and the disappeared are presumed to be executed (I have proof that not all but that's another story and I did say I have PROOF) and second, as they were not legally tried by any court one can only say that some of them (maybe many of them) were far from innocent young kids. They were vicious terrorists with no qualms about placing bombs and killing whoever was near but there is no way of pointing them out one by one and listing their crimes!

If they were vicious terrorist, it would be very easy to bring them in court and send them to jail, wouldn't it? Also, by clearly naming them and pointing out their crimes under duly-procedural courts, militaries would earn credibility.

When such slaughters happen, usually there is a hidden agenda to move forward, an agenda that wouldn't be easily carried out in a well-balanced, democratic society.

Andres

[Jackson]

Dickhead,

Just checked online:

Curmudgeon definition.

Cur·mudg·eon (k ər muj ′ən)

Noun.

A surly, ill-mannered, bad-tempered person; cantankerous fellow.

I'm sure there are better definitions. You could never be any of these things surely! And regretably, the only yacht I've ever been on was very small, and not mine.

Hi SteveC,

That definition fits DH perfectly.

Thanks,

Jackson

[SteveC]

Dickhead,

Just checked online:

Curmudgeon definition.

Cur·mudg·eon (k ər muj ′ən)

Noun.

A surly, ill-mannered, bad-tempered person; cantankerous fellow.

I'm sure there are better definitions. You could never be any of these things surely! And regretably, the only yacht I've ever been on was very small, and not mine.

[Jackson]

This board used to be for mongers but now it is more like a slick cookbook for the two-yacht set. Sad, really. But maybe RockHarder's latest wave of posts will get things moving in that direction again.

If you don't like this forum, you are welcome to leave.

Jackson

[Dickhead]

Actually I used the search function to view your posts, which (luckily) does not show me anything about Redondo, who along with Piss In Your Ropa is also on my ignore list.

I prefer to think of myself as a curmudgeon, rather than "cranky," which sounds so negative.

This board used to be for mongers but now it is more like a slick cookbook for the two-yacht set. Sad, really. But maybe RockHarder's latest wave of posts will get things moving in that direction again.

[SteveC]

Dickhead,

No hidden agenda, just interested in living in Argentina, the economy, politics, ATMs, residencia, property, and anything affecting my life here in Argentina. I check a few blogs and boards re life in Argentina and Buenos Aries in particular, and this board can be pretty informative.

I don't post anything on mongering because since living here I've had two long term girlfriends and a few short term ones. All regular women, non-pros, and I think it would be a definite lack of class to discuss them here. But, if there's a minimum quota of 'pussy' related posts to fulfill, I guess I'd better stop posting. And maybe Jackson should remove these threads, apart from privados, clubs, etc.

As for following Redondo around, I actually put him on my ignore list, as you would have seen if you'd read all my posts. Now I should do the same for his latest personna. I shouldn't take the bait when these apologists for the dictatorship post their shit.

As for you, you're the wittiest writer here, but you can be a cranky fucker all the same.

[Dickhead]

Pretty much both. I looked at all of his posts and saw nothing informative, and nothing ever about mongering. I think he has a different agenda and there is too much of that shit. Look at the stated purpose of the forum.

Britney Spears (or however she spells her first name) is informative, compared to Redondo.

[Monger514]

I just reviewed all of Steve C's posts and none of them add any value, and none of them have anything to do with pussy. So why in the fuck are you on this forum anyway, Steve? Mostly you chase Redondo around.

I remember when this forum used to be about pussy.

Jackson, if you have an exit strategy you might consider implementing it soon.

DH, are you just picking on SteveC, or complaining about lack of pussy posts in general?

This is the "Living in Argentina" thread, and there's no sign on the forum that says "You must post pussy reviews before posting in non-pussy threads". Now, maybe there should be, but there ain't.

His posts are at least informative and coherent, as opposed to Redondo.

[Dickhead]

I just reviewed all of Steve C's posts and none of them add any value, and none of them have anything to do with pussy. So why in the fuck are you on this forum anyway, Steve? Mostly you chase Redondo around.

I remember when this forum used to be about pussy.

Jackson, if you have an exit strategy you might consider implementing it soon.

[SteveC]

Redondo,

Sorry about the faulty link. I copied it correctly, but its not working when I post it here. You'll just have to be patient until it works again, or cut and paste it into your browser; I can make it work that way. But, I'm not sure that you'll bother to investigate anything that challenges your prejudices.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/...20A0000514c.pd

And the source, as I've already told you, is the National security achrives. (a non-profit research and archival institution located within The George Washington University in Washington, D. C. A well respected institution as you can imagine.

It maybe is an 'obscure document', but its authentic. If you disagree with it give your reasons, preferably with sources.

[SteveC]

Redondo,

You've got a short memory. When you say "There is no reason to doubt the 8900 number as it serves no purpose" you must have forgotten my previous reply to you on this subject from 12/16/07. Note that the CONADEP report made clear that many more <disappeared> could exist than the number given in the report. The source quoted is in Spanish but is an Argentine military source from July 1978 admitting to at least 22,000 dead or disappeared. The link again for you to check is.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/...20A0000514c.pd

Here's a link where Commander Suarez Mason (army commander 1st Corps, Buenos Aires) admits to signing 50 to 100 death warrants a day over a long period. And that's in just one unit.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB73/790510.pdf

And Aqualung, your assertion that "The cases reported in the CONADEP are the only cases", just isn't true. And I have proof. The uncle of a very good friend of mine was a lawyer filing habeus corpus cases. He was warned to get out the country, and got to the airport to leave. At the last minute he changed his mind and continued. A few weeks later they dragged him out of his house and his wife, kids and family have never seen him again. Maybe he's still on holiday in Miami like the apologists for the military say, but I doubt it. And his name isn't in the CONADEP list. I can't tell you why, but there's one to add to your count.

A 'bon mot' from US Embassy Political Officer Tex Harris in a letter 4/26/78 "Argentina is the only country in the world where you are safe in the streets, but not in your own home".

Still, 10,000, 20,000, 30,000, just too many.

[Aqualung]

The book briefing the CONADEP Commission Report ("Nunca Más") refers to almost 9,000 cases. It is estimated that there were many times more (30,000 or so)

Andres

The cases reported in the CONADEP are the only cases. Just imagine for a moment over 20 thousand families with a disappeared member and not one coming forward to complain about the absence of their family member in the report!

The use of the passive voice (it is estimated) is one of the most common ways of creating fallacies.

Who estimates? And using what information does that person reach the mentioned estimation?

The issue with the disappearances is that - First, there is no death penalty in Argentina and the disappeared are presumed to be executed (I have proof that not all but that's another story and I did say I have PROOF) and second, as they were not legally tried by any court one can only say that some of them (maybe many of them) were far from innocent young kids. They were vicious terrorists with no qualms about placing bombs and killing whoever was near but there is no way of pointing them out one by one and listing their crimes!

(Just last Tuesday I went to visit an old friend of mine. She's stone deaf and has deep scars on her face (and soul) She was sitting at a bar table when a bomb evaporated the girl sitting in front of her together with 42 other people. The fact that there was a column between her and the bomb saved her.

Another thing - Just reason this out: "Daleo stuck her head though the sedan's sun-roof into the chilly evening to view the unbridled, madcap revelry." and she could stand on the car seat and hold her head out of the sunroof without being able to escape from her captors or call for help? Come on! This is bullshit that offends my intelligence. And I invite anyone who wants to to try and put his head out of a 504s sunroof. It takes a hell of a lot of collaboration between those inside the car and the person sticking his head out.

I won't post here any more about this topic but I have no problem in continuing the conversation personally.

[SteveC]

Redondo,

An apt remark about the Holocaust. By admitting to only 8,900 disappeared, you're denying the disappearance of maybe around 20,000 more.

And why the new handle? We all know who you are.

[El Perro]

By whom?

There are people who say the Holocaust never happend, does that make it true as well then?

Pee You Ropa has got an odor about him.

[Andres]

Redondo,

Still waiting for the reference for your number. By reference I mean a published source. Then we can compare the credibility of our respective sources.

The book briefing the CONADEP Commission Report ("Nunca Más") refers to almost 9,000 cases. It is estimated that there were many times more (30,000 or so)

Andres