Racism in Argentina

[BadMan]

Sidney,

You're a pretty smart guy but, I agree with Aqua, something doesn't jive with your story.

If she is as you say from Cuba or the RD, all she needs to do is go to her embassy and ask for a Provisional Passport if there is a family emergency, which she can get in a day.

If she is an Argentinian Citizen, she cannot " under the law " be refused a passport renewal.

I think she might be pulling your chain on this one. Either that or she doesn't know her rights.

Maybe you should advise her of her rights or tell her to seek legal council.

Just a thought.

Regards,

BM.

A "white" friend, formerly married to an Argie, was just denied an AR Passport renewal! They told her to get a passport from one of her ''home'' countries of Cuba or the RD. She is now trapped in AR for months, until she gets a new passport. Meanwhile, her father is near death.

[Geo Eye]

Greetings everyone,

Let's tone down the Arge bashing here.

I have no desire to turn this into a hate website.

Thanks,

Jackson

Understood

[Jackson]

Greetings everyone,

Let's tone down the Arge bashing here.

I have no desire to turn this into a hate website.

Thanks,

Jackson

[Tatshea Travel]

You are right Geo Eye. [Deleted by Admin] like I never saw in my life. The [Deleted by Admin]. Never knew an argie you can trust about. If you think they ever donne something disinterested is because they're waiting to take advantage some other side. Argentina is the [Deleted by Admin] country in the world.

[Aqualung]

A "white" friend, formerly married to an Argie, was just denied an AR Passport renewal! They told her to get a passport from one of her ''home'' countries of Cuba or the RD. She is now trapped in AR for months, until she gets a new passport. Meanwhile, her father is near death.

Hey Sid - Just being married to an Argie doesn't entitle her to an Argentine passport so if she has one (which would seem so if she has tried to renew it) she must have Argentine nationality and has the right to renew it whenever she likes and no one can refuse it to her.

If she doesn't have Argentine nationality and she needs to renew her RD passport, she can do this at her embassy and from my experience with foreign embassies, this is done, if not in the day (I have seen the Irish embassy renew a stolen passport in less than an hour) in a day or two.

Something is not quite right with your story.

[Geo Eye]

As I have stated before, the argentines are the most [Deleted by Admin] people on the face of the earth. I have dealt with them all my life and I bash them whenever I get a chance.

Having a conversation with an argie is like having a conversation with a [Deleted by Admin] person when it comes to politics, religion, economy.

Or just about anything else.

Argies are not only racist to blacks but just about everyone else who is not born and raised in this [Deleted by Admin] country of Argentina.

They are mostly nasty to Americans, I have never seen people so envious of the US. Like these [Deleted by Admin].

They have no idea what the US. Is all about, and that is because most of them have never left thier birthsite for more than a 10 miles area.

I tell them whenever I get a chance that if it was not for the US, they would be starving.

Anyway, I have realized that no matter how you try to educate them they are just [Deleted by Admin] people who have never been read aA book or had any type of education.

I guess it comes from thier Spaniard blood who are the [Deleted by Admin] people on earth.

I will make it a point to insult as many argentine people I can.

[El Queso]

Roughly two weeks ago seven American teenage thugs beat a Hispanic man to death on Long Island.

All I'm saying is that we've got our problems too.

Bob

Well, there are pockets of idiocy in every part of the world. And while I agree that the US has its share of issues, there is a true pathology here that is much greater than the States imho. I lived in the south in the States for more than 30 years and I had never seen as much blatant racism and snobbery there as I have seen in Argentina.

Just today my wife told me that my (now) infamous next door neighbor told Clara, her nurse / maid, that it really was too bad that they didn't have Argentines living next door instead of that estadounidense with his Paraguayan menagerie. Remember that Clara is Paraguayan as well.

This is more like the US in the late 1800's / early 1900's, it seems to me.

[El Queso]

Wow. After 7 pages and 99 threads, I am getting a bad image of Argentina. I know it's all generalizations but some of the personal experiences witnessed and suffered by some of the fellow mongers leaves a rancid taste in my mouth after reading all of these stories. As an Asian guy, I don't think I would be welcome to this country. I have always found blond Argentinian women to be so exotic and appealing but this has put off any thoughts of traveling to Buenos Aires. Thanks to all of those who have put forth their honest and forthright opinions. Regards.

The funny thing is, for tourists, it's not that bad. Or one doesn't notice it. It depends really on how deep into the culture you get as to how bad it is.

Certainly most Argentines think they are better than everyone else, but the common person on the street will generally treat one well enough.

The truth is, it's the guys like me and some others I know who live here and see the full society, not just the hotels and the working girls and the kiosco employees, etc, who really see the racism.

The post below by Uzinuzin is kind of typical, but I don't think she was necessarily being singled out because she was black, but rather (from the sound of it) because she was beautiful.

Latin american men are absolute pigs of the most outrageous caliber when it comes to staring openly at other women, mouths hanging open like they've never seen a beautiful women before, even when they have their (often good-looking) girlfriend on the arm. Catcalls, hoots, VERY OPEN propositions ("hey baby, I can suck your pussy real good and put you in heaven", as one worker from a local labor crew shouted out to my wife a couple of days ago as she was passing by) and all manner of shitty-isms.

But I know a couple of guys of obvious Asian descent who have come here to party and have not made comments related to being any more poorly treated than any other gringo.

[AllIWantIsLove]

... What's wrong with these people.

Roughly two weeks ago seven American teenage thugs beat a Hispanic man to death on Long Island.

All I'm saying is that we've got our problems too.

Bob

[Duckydo]

Wow. After 7 pages and 99 threads, I am getting a bad image of Argentina. I know it's all generalizations but some of the personal experiences witnessed and suffered by some of the fellow mongers leaves a rancid taste in my mouth after reading all of these stories. As an Asian guy, I don't think I would be welcome to this country. I have always found blond Argentinian women to be so exotic and appealing but this has put off any thoughts of traveling to Buenos Aires. Thanks to all of those who have put forth their honest and forthright opinions. Regards.

[Snowbird]

Even the damm taxi drivers are REPUBLICANS!

From now on I am walking.

Excellent post, Uniz. Unfortunately racism and antisemitism are alive and well in Argentina. Two nights ago in a cab going home, the driver asked me where I was from and when I told him the U. S. He asked me what I thought about Obama as president. The dialog went like this:

Me: I think he is just fine.

Driver: But he is black!

Me: Yes, and he is a good man.

Driver: Did you vote for him?

Me: Yes.

Driver: How could you vote for him, he is a black!

Me: I voted for him because I thought he was the best man.

(At this point he just shakes his head, he can't believe it.

Driver: Your white house is now your black house!

(Now I am at my destination and leave with relief)

[Stormy]

Excellent post, Uniz. Unfortunately racism and antisemitism are alive and well in Argentina. Two nights ago in a cab going home, the driver asked me where I was from and when I told him the U. S. He asked me what I thought about Obama as president. The dialog went like this:

Me: I think he is just fine.

Driver: But he is black!

Me: Yes, and he is a good man.

Driver: Did you vote for him?

Me: Yes.

Driver: How could you vote for him, he is a black!

Me: I voted for him because I thought he was the best man.

(At this point he just shakes his head, he can't believe it.

Driver: Your white house is now your black house!

(Now I am at my destination and leave with relief)

[Uzinuzin]

I haven't been following this thread closely, but I heard of some real bad behaviour towards black people here in Argentina. Today I was in a cafe and this very dark black girl came in and I realized she was possibly from US (the Spanish accent and all)

Young girl, quite nice loooking and fit actually, she sat next to me and we started talking. She is here now for 3 month (almost finished her stay) learning Spanish and so on. She was almost in tears regarding how men treat her here, absolutely appalled by the disrespect and abuse she was getting.

I was listening with interest as I realised she was a bit mixing up racism with how latin men behave towards women, of any colour. She was of course subjected to both in a bad way.

I didn't really get all of it until I saw almost every man or woman passing by including waiters in the cafe were staring at her really strangely, in two ways, first like something alien, second a bit of disrespect. Until then I really didn't realized what she was talking about. The latin relationship between men and women doesn't bother me as I'm almost fed up with all the pc bs in the west (going against all the million years of instinct and nature) but I was appalled about that extra layer of abuse she was receiving. It was all confirmed when the waiter came to get her credit card for payment, even with my broken Spanish I noticed he was very rude to her!

Just terrible if you ask me, what's wrong with these people.

[Facundo]

The following Monday, one of the guards stopped the maid as she was leaving the neighborhood to go to the carniceria to buy some meat and actually asked her if we were running some sort of a brothel because they noticed how many Paraguayan women were coming in, mixed with some guys here and there. The maid had to assure the guards that this was not the case that it was family coming to visit.

I talked to the guards at that point and told them that if they had any problems with what was going on in my household that they could certainly talk to me and not my employees. They fell all over themselves apologizing.

El Queso,

I think you were very polite and generous in your response. My experience with, prejudices, idiotic behaviors, comments to women friends walking by construction sites, is to jump in and confront directly. I would have told guards their comments were unacceptable, full of prejudice, idiotic, and if at the end of the day they still had their jobs they are to apologize to the maid and refrain from ever making such a stupid comment. These idiots basically called your wife and her guests prostitutes. Also, I would have told them I was going to talk to their boss and if at the end of the day I didn't talk to their boss and didn't file a complaint against them, it's only because I was feeling a little generous.

Confront this crap head on or they'll never respect you.

[El Queso]

This sentence sums up everything that is wrong with the wealthy and semi wealthy in and around BsAs. It's not as bad in the north, which is closer to Paraguay of course, but even there they look down on Paraguayans. Strangely enough, most of the Paraguayans I have known (not JUST Daisy and Jess) are mostly sweet people.

I agree - Argento's statement is really very, very true.

On Paraguayans, I would agree Daddy, that the WOMEN (for the most part) are very nice, decent people, with huge hearts.

The men can be a very, very different animal though. Many Paraguayan men are useless asswipes who sit around their "house" (or whatever hovel they have managed to provide that they call home) and demand that their women get out and work because the poor guys can't find work, but their wives sure as hell can for a piddly U$S 50 a month as a maid (for example) or go to Argentina or Spain to work as whores to keep their family going.

There is some pathology there with these guys - it is a VERY common phenomenon. I think it has to do with the War of the Triple Alliance in the 1860s when so many Paraguayan men were killed.

From the Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Triple_Alliance):

"The specific numbers of casualties are hotly disputed, but it has been estimated that 300,000 Paraguayans, mostly civilians, died; up to 90% of the male population may have been killed. According to one numerical estimation, the prewar population of approximately 525,000 Paraguayans was reduced to about 221,000 in 1871, of which only about 28,000 were men. Definitively accurate casualty numbers will probably never be determined."

Men became a precious commodity afterward and to this day the Paraguayan women go out of their way to make sure that even 20, 21, 22 year old men are taken care of like kids, who then go out afterward and insist that their woman provide for the family as well (remember, this is just my theory as to why they are so much the way they are - I'm sure there are other reasons that I'm not seeing, to go along)

So an ex-pat comes along and treats a Paraguayan woman humanely (even somewhat - there is a lot of room for variance there) and they are his for the taking! And they still remember who they are with and are very, very grateful for decent treatment, sometimes embarrassingly so.