Racism in Argentina

[Daddy Rulz]

They take their dogs for a walk to shit on their neighbor's path and then act indignant when their neighbor's dog shits in front of their house.

This sentence sums up everything that is wrong with the wealthy and semi wealthy in and around BsAs. It's not as bad in the north, which is closer to Paraguay of course, but even there they look down on Paraguayans. Strangely enough, most of the Paraguayans I have known (not JUST Daisy and Jess) are mostly sweet people.

[Argento]

A few comments on racism from the suburbs of Buenos Aires since I've been here.

First, I don't know what the custom is here in Argentina, but where I come from, within a couple of days of moving in (often the day of or the day immediately after) people come over and introduce themselves, welcoming new neighbors to the neighborhood. We received none of that. Not one single person said a word to us for the first three weeks (exdept for the guards, who have been very nice for the most part, with one minor exception) My wife finally had a small conversation with one neighbor yesterday, planning how we are going to fix the mess of the plants that have grown wild between our two houses, left by the owner of the house we are renting.

It turns out that being married to a Paraguayan and having a Paraguayan working as a maid in the household allows one to see a little more closely into the behind-the-scenes goings-on in Argentina's suburbs.

I live in a relatively small, 50 lot closed neighborhood, in which most of the houses have maids, and to my knowledge, every one of them are Paraguayas. Paraguayans seek each other out fairly quickly when in new surroundings and my wife and our maid started making contacts fairly rapidly.

So within two days of moving in, although no one had bothered to welcome us to the neighborhood, I received news from our next door neighbor (not the one who talked to my wife about the plants, but the other side) that she was not pleased that Paraguayans had moved in next door.

In fact, we had been playing our stereo the day of and the day following our move-in. I had been careful to control the volume because I didn't want to have any problems with the neighbors, particularly on the first couple of days moving in.

The complaint was that "those damned [malditos] Paraguayans that moved in next door had better not cause a lot of problems and play their music loud or I will go to the administration and have them kicked out as soon as possible." The comment was from the lady of the house, to her PARAGUAYAN maid! According to Clara, the maid, her patrona was quite upset that she was going to have to put up with Paraguayans living next door and surely their entire family and all of their friends would come in a spill over into their yard, and all sorts of idiotic remarks. Of course, it's really telling that she doesn't even give pause to think to WHOM she is complaining.

That was shared in the first meeting of my wife, our maid, and Clara. Of course, both of them were very upset to hear this. When Clara the maid found out that the neighbor patron (I. E. Me) was actually estadounidense, she promptly returned to her patrona to give her the news. Upon which her patrona practically gushed with enthusiasm that at least there would be some control "over there."

Since then, we have learned some very interesting (read, "idiotic") things about our next door neighbor and her semi-missing husband that we would really rather not know about and don't need to be discussed in this thread (and others - it's a soap here, with the husbands and wives apparently floating around in a haze of inter-marital sex)

So, I'm thinking we're ok. I don't like the way things started out, but at least I can be a moderating influence.

That first weekend we had a houseful of Paraguayans that were over helping us move into our house. It's nice having family and they all turned out to help. I cooked asado and we had a little fiesta, nothing obnoxious.

The following weekend my wife invited her family out again for some asado and we swam in the pool. A good time was had by all.

The following Monday, one of the guards stopped the maid as she was leaving the neighborhood to go to the carniceria to buy some meat and actually asked her if we were running some sort of a brothel because they noticed how many Paraguayan women were coming in, mixed with some guys here and there. The maid had to assure the guards that this was not the case, that it was family coming to visit.

I talked to the guards at that point and told them that if they had any problems with what was going on in my household that they could certainly talk to me and not my employees. They fell all over themselves apologizing.

Last weekend I went into town to meet with my programmers over some accounting issues. My lead guy, who had originally put up one of his properties to help me with the guarantee that I needed said "man, I have something that I need to talk to you about, that you are not going to like."

He went on to tell me that the administrator called him and said she had to get some references from him related to me, because apparently there have been complaints that I have "too many Paraguayans" in my house and that we are surely up to something no good.

He told the lady that this is not the case, that I am above reproach, and furthermore, he would let me know about the government agency that deals with racism and unfair practices.

The thing that really gets me about this is that we have kept to our (private) backyard, kept the noise down, and have actually had MANY more ex-pats from the States and Argentinos over here than we have had Paraguayan family members.

Last weekend one of the Argentinos in the neighborhood had a 14 year old kid with a birthday. They used the clubhouse, which is about two blocks from my house, to have a party. It started about 8:00 pm Friday night and went on until after 1:00 am. They had the music turned up so loud I could hardly hear myself think.

For those of us ex-patriates who actually live and work here, it is a no-brainer that the mass of our neighbors are inconsiderate and pathetic pieces of ignorant dog shit. In the 18th and 19th centuries, dogshit was used to tan the hides of kids (baby goats) and was called "pure". The resultant leather was the base for woman's gloves. It was not the greatest job in the world, but the lowest of the low, eaked out a living as collectors of "pure". It is a job ideally suited to the mass of my neighbors. The only time they talk is if they think they can con you out of money or take some advantage of you. Dogshit collection is the ideal job for them. There's plenty of it in the streets around me. Naturally deposited by their dogs. They take their dogs for a walk to shit on their neighbor's path and then act indignant when their neighbor's dog shits in front of their house. The problem of course is identifying the "pure" dog shit, and once identified, distinguishing it from the 2 legged pieces of dogshit with whom we share our suburbs. And of course there could still be a use for "pure" but there sure as hell is not much demand for the 2-legged variety, homo argentenis. Untrusted and reviled by all who need to have continuous dealings with them.

Argento

[El Queso]

We had a young lady (yes, a family member of my wife) who came to stay with us for a couple of days, and then found out that one of the families, whose neighboring maid we knew, was looking for a young Paraguaya to look after their children while they were at work. The two are lawyers and they are in the city from early in the morning until into the evening. The kids are 4 and 6. One of them in school.

I won't go into the rigamarole that she went through to actually get into the job here.

However, once in the position, she found out that they are not very thoughtful people.

She is allowed to eat lunch with the kids, but apparently dinner is not included. The first night the mother comes home from work and begins to prepare milanesa. The Paraguaya's mouth is watering because she's not had breakfast, and only had a small lunch with the kids that she had prepared earlier.

Imagine her surprise when the patrona put out four plates and four pieces of milanesa on the table and the family sat down to eat without a word to the poor girl who was quite hungry.

[El Queso]

A few comments on racism from the suburbs of Buenos Aires since I've been here.

First, I don't know what the custom is here in Argentina, but where I come from, within a couple of days of moving in (often the day of or the day immediately after) people come over and introduce themselves, welcoming new neighbors to the neighborhood. We received none of that. Not one single person said a word to us for the first three weeks (exdept for the guards, who have been very nice for the most part, with one minor exception) My wife finally had a small conversation with one neighbor yesterday, planning how we are going to fix the mess of the plants that have grown wild between our two houses, left by the owner of the house we are renting.

It turns out that being married to a Paraguayan and having a Paraguayan working as a maid in the household allows one to see a little more closely into the behind-the-scenes goings-on in Argentina's suburbs.

I live in a relatively small, 50 lot closed neighborhood, in which most of the houses have maids, and to my knowledge, every one of them are Paraguayas. Paraguayans seek each other out fairly quickly when in new surroundings and my wife and our maid started making contacts fairly rapidly.

So within two days of moving in, although no one had bothered to welcome us to the neighborhood, I received news from our next door neighbor (not the one who talked to my wife about the plants, but the other side) that she was not pleased that Paraguayans had moved in next door.

In fact, we had been playing our stereo the day of and the day following our move-in. I had been careful to control the volume because I didn't want to have any problems with the neighbors, particularly on the first couple of days moving in.

The complaint was that "those damned [malditos] Paraguayans that moved in next door had better not cause a lot of problems and play their music loud or I will go to the administration and have them kicked out as soon as possible." The comment was from the lady of the house, to her PARAGUAYAN maid! According to Clara, the maid, her patrona was quite upset that she was going to have to put up with Paraguayans living next door and surely their entire family and all of their friends would come in a spill over into their yard, and all sorts of idiotic remarks. Of course, it's really telling that she doesn't even give pause to think to WHOM she is complaining.

That was shared in the first meeting of my wife, our maid, and Clara. Of course, both of them were very upset to hear this. When Clara the maid found out that the neighbor patron (I. E. Me) was actually estadounidense, she promptly returned to her patrona to give her the news. Upon which her patrona practically gushed with enthusiasm that at least there would be some control "over there."

Since then, we have learned some very interesting (read, "idiotic") things about our next door neighbor and her semi-missing husband that we would really rather not know about and don't need to be discussed in this thread (and others - it's a soap here, with the husbands and wives apparently floating around in a haze of inter-marital sex)

So, I'm thinking we're ok. I don't like the way things started out, but at least I can be a moderating influence.

That first weekend we had a houseful of Paraguayans that were over helping us move into our house. It's nice having family and they all turned out to help. I cooked asado and we had a little fiesta, nothing obnoxious.

The following weekend my wife invited her family out again for some asado and we swam in the pool. A good time was had by all.

The following Monday, one of the guards stopped the maid as she was leaving the neighborhood to go to the carniceria to buy some meat and actually asked her if we were running some sort of a brothel because they noticed how many Paraguayan women were coming in, mixed with some guys here and there. The maid had to assure the guards that this was not the case, that it was family coming to visit.

I talked to the guards at that point and told them that if they had any problems with what was going on in my household that they could certainly talk to me and not my employees. They fell all over themselves apologizing.

Last weekend I went into town to meet with my programmers over some accounting issues. My lead guy, who had originally put up one of his properties to help me with the guarantee that I needed said "man, I have something that I need to talk to you about, that you are not going to like."

He went on to tell me that the administrator called him and said she had to get some references from him related to me, because apparently there have been complaints that I have "too many Paraguayans" in my house and that we are surely up to something no good.

He told the lady that this is not the case, that I am above reproach, and furthermore, he would let me know about the government agency that deals with racism and unfair practices.

The thing that really gets me about this is that we have kept to our (private) backyard, kept the noise down, and have actually had MANY more ex-pats from the States and Argentinos over here than we have had Paraguayan family members.

Last weekend one of the Argentinos in the neighborhood had a 14 year old kid with a birthday. They used the clubhouse, which is about two blocks from my house, to have a party. It started about 8:00 pm Friday night and went on until after 1:00 am. They had the music turned up so loud I could hardly hear myself think.

[Julio]

I believe in letting the market punish idiots like that.

Like a kind of God's Punishment, no?

Pitiy Kant didn't knew about the Religion of the Market when he wrote the Metaphysics of Morals in 1797

[El Perro]

This is America's Litmus Test and race is a constant battle in America, because I would say fully 2/3'rds would tell you Black people think Racism is the Boogie Man actually and doesn't exist.

Obama will either get the "Tom Bradley Effect" or he'll crush McCain, we'll know soon enough.

I don't believe the polls, its soley for the media to use to get you to watch their programing.

Reality says in many states Obama is up by 3-4% points. The large Black turnout will cancel out the racist vote. The large Latino turnout will cancel the Indie vote which is totally overrated and lastly the media is not counting on the youth vote and that's where the difference will be made. Trust me

Sounds about right. It seems like forever that the "youth vote" has been anticipated to make a difference. It has yet to happen, so we will see this time around.

[DjFourMoney]

This is America's Litmus Test and race is a constant battle in America, because I would say fully 2/3'rds would tell you Black people think Racism is the Boogie Man actually and doesn't exist.

Obama will either get the "Tom Bradley Effect" or he'll crush McCain, we'll know soon enough.

I don't believe the polls, its soley for the media to use to get you to watch their programing.

Reality says in many states Obama is up by 3-4% points. The large Black turnout will cancel out the racist vote. The large Latino turnout will cancel the Indie vote which is totally overrated and lastly the media is not counting on the youth vote and that's where the difference will be made. Trust me

[SmokedHam]

And that's exactly the reason Obama will lose: racism.

In spite of, after the terrifying administration of Bush.

Well the election hasn't been held and Obama is currently (on average) ahead in the polls by three percent. I do find Bush problematic but remember that McCain is not Bush. I don't know if you are from the US but basically for the past 6 decades elections have been decided by 20% of the voters. The Republicans almost always net 40% of the vote and the Democrats almost always net 40% of the vote, it's the 20% of the electorate that are the swing vote that politicians aim for. I am sure that some Whites (and Asians and Latinos) may not vote for him because he is Black (really biracial) but I think the over riding concern is not whether he is Black but whether he is "Red". His mother and father and he himself in college and during his community organizing days were much further to the left than your average American. I actually think if he were White, that given his long association with Jeremiah Wright and his association with the unapologetic ex-Weatherman Bill Ayers among others, he wouldn't have made it this fair.

Whoever wins will very likely have to scrap whatever broad spending agendas they have because of severe monetary constraints. Our bankers (The Saudis, Russians, Chinese, Japanese, and other countries who have bought large amounts of US debt) are royally pissed off (as well they should be) and will have to be appeased to some degree. Dad is taking the credit card away.

[El Queso]

How racism in Argentina suddenly became a discussion about politics in the U. S. Is beyond me.

Well, that's rpetty easy. It was started off by an argentino claiming that the US is so full of racism that Obama will lose the race, even after 8 years of Bush. A straight comparison between Argentino racism and US racism. Valid I think, as long as it doesn't go too far.

[Big Bob 7]

How racism in Argentina suddenly became a discussion about politics in the U. S. Is beyond me but IMHO saying that Obama is less qualified than Palin is TOTALLY FUCKING RIDICULOUS. Her nomination is all politics and she is a hypocrite totally lacking in substance. BTW I spent about half a year living in Alaska and the bustling metroplis of Juneau doesn't have as much going on as Fayetteville, Arkansas so how governing in this region prepares you for a career in international politics is beyond me. Also, I think that it is really funny that people are objecting to Obama on the grounds that he is a black man because he is BARELY black. He is, in fact, half white and was raised ALL OF HIS LIFE by a white family. He's only been black for about 10 years. Right about the time that he got serious about politics! Lol!!!! The great thing about living in a free country is freedom of choice. If you want to elect a fossil for president go right ahead. I nominate the T Rex exhibit in the lobby of the natural history museum in Chicago.

[Monger514]

As El Queso's story illustrates, racism in Argentina is a bit more subtle, especially for gringos used to the whole black vs. white thing.

That owner will maybe lose some money (a month's rent? more?). But she's such a dumbass, she doesn't even realize it. Some consolation, though. I believe in letting the market punish idiots like that.

[El Queso]

And that's exactly the reason Obama will lose: racism.

In spite of, after the terrifying administration of Bush.

Yeah I know, and the conspiracy of the Behind-The-Scenes-Rulers in the States is strong enough to ensure that Obama makes a good standing in the race, but will actually cause the "good guy" WASP to win. The racist Rulers can then breathe a sigh of relief and know that the country is safe from the black menace once again, while fooling the American people into feeling that they have come one step closer to eliminating racism.

That's about the only thing that I can see that would explain Obama being ahead in the polls and that RACISM is what is going to make him lose.

That actually sounds a lot like my ex-wife and her less-than-cognitive way of explaining how the world works. One of the many reasons I divorced her.

Snowbird makes a very good point - if Obama loses it will be because he should have never been a serious candidate to being with.

Obama shows so strong because there are many, many people who are ready to vote for a black man (and / or a woman) The problem is, the democrats chose the wrong person period.

I don't give a rat's ass about race or gender. Give me the best person and I will vote for him / her (it? The english language has more problem with gender than it does race, I think)

But it isn't Obama. Just like I would never in a million years have voted for Jesse Jackson. Although admitedly that is a horse of a completely different color (I hope all can recognize the joke / pun and not think me a racist)

[Jackson]

Any moron could see this coming and yet no one did anything to stop it.

Hi Snowbird,

Actually, that's not entirely correct, given that in 2006 John McCain tried (and failed) to get the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005 passed.

Obama brazenly blames John McCain and the GOP for the current Wall Street mess when it's clear none of it was due to Republican policies. The truth of the matter is that it was McCain and three GOP colleagues who sought to reform the government 's lending policies three long years ago after the Bush administration had failed two years earlier. On May 25, 2006, McCain spoke on behalf of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, and warned against the debacle we are now facing if it failed to pass.

He told the Senate that a report by the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight charged that "Fannie Mae employees deliberately and intentionally manipulated financial reports to hit earnings targets in order to trigger bonuses for senior executives. "

McCain warned, "If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole. "

McCain predicted the entire collapse we now are suffering through. He stressed the falsification of financial records to benefit executives, including Obama advisers Franklin Raines and Jim Johnson.

Now Obama has the nerve to try to pin the blame on McCain and the GOP when the facts show that the blame must be pinned on the Democratic donkey.

[Snowbird]

And that's exactly the reason Obama will lose: racism.

In spite of, after the terrifying administration of Bush, even a monkey with a mask of John Wayne will be choosed as president

I love all of you bigots!

Has anyone considered that Obama was the only one to go up against Hilary Clinton and had the audacity to win? Obama will not lose because he is black.

He will not win, because as Geraldine Ferraro said, "If this guy was white you would be going who?" Obama won because Americans were willing to vote for him just because he is black. He is not qualified. He is a man who has not accomplished anything yet. He is less qualified than Palin. That is saying something! The Democratic party has fallen victim to their fear of what the Clintons can do to them and therefore given away an election that should just have been theirs because of the last eight years of George Bush. Way to go you certainly know how to fuck things up. Come to think of it this is proof again that the fundamentals that party has going for it, just like the Republicans, go out the window the second they come into power. This is one of the most treacherous times in our nations history not due to the war in Iraq, which is bad, but because of all the loose money that we Democrats helped create in forcing lending institutions to give loans to people who did not qualify. Any moron could see this coming and yet no one did anything to stop it. I got to fucking see it in the banking industry. Instead of gradually loosening the purse strings they let greed overcome them and they threw the money on the floor. It is just plain fucking insane.

[Julio]

If racism were such a problem in the US, you would not be seeing a black presidential candidate with as much possibility as Obama in a million years, no matter WHAT the opposition did in the previous 8 years.

And that's exactly the reason Obama will lose: racism.

In spite of, after the terrifying administration of Bush.