Racism in Argentina

[Nikki]

But the lack of respect thing is a whole other subject, and a proper can of worms! Having spent 7 years in Saudi and 6 years in Argentina I think I'm 'qualified' to make some comparisons and I'd say I'd trust a Saudi over an Argentinian in EVERY respect possible, in EVERY walk of life.

I could make a list of things that I find despicable in this culture that could go on forever, but racism isn't very high on that list (and that's the subject of this thread). The Argentinians don't have a very good history regarding the treatment of their indigenous people, but then nor does any other former colony of European origin. More important is how they treat them now and in my experience they have a lot more respect for them than they do of anyone who isn't Argentinian. Where you're getting the idea that foreigners are treated better I really can't fathom! In certain very specific situations maybe ie. If you're European / North American and trying to rent an apartment without a garantia, your chances are one in a thousand as opposed to zero. Besides these very specific finance related situations I've felt very much discriminated against for not being Argentinian in almost every aspect of life here.

Of course, we all have different life experiences. If you were lucky enough to find a partner here and put in the 10 years it takes to get accepted by her family / peer group, you probably think they're the warmest people on earth. But that's only because they look upon you as an honorary Argentinian!

Sorry to hear you had such a tough time here. I always thought that we were very welcoming towards foreigners as a society. After talking to and living with expats for over a decade, I am giving that second thoughts at the very least. I hear how tough it becomes to make local friends, etc. Because of my curious nature, I have all kind of friends, locals, expats, etc. I think language is a very strong barrier. Especially when we are talking about being included within a family, etc. I think at first everybody understands that you struggle, then after a while, when you are not a novelty anymore, they just lose interest. If you can't communicate, they will just talk to whomever is sitting right next to you. Still comparing Saudi Arabia to Argentina is a bit too much, culturally we are very different. I think Argentine can be more easily compared to Italian and Spanish. Countries where you also find a high level of corruption, disregard for the law, trash, etc. We are not the same for sure, but maybe look more alike.

As for native Indians, most people think they are something from the past. History itself has neglected them here, so there is a lot of ignorance about them.

[Gandolf50]

Most foreigners get treated better because yes, you are more likely to do the right thing, and also because they see a cow they can milk out of dollars.

You have got that right!

[DavieW]

But the lack of respect thing is a whole other subject, and a proper can of worms! Having spent 7 years in Saudi and 6 years in Argentina I think I'm 'qualified' to make some comparisons and I'd say I'd trust a Saudi over an Argentinian in EVERY respect possible, in EVERY walk of life.

I could make a list of things that I find despicable in this culture that could go on forever, but racism isn't very high on that list (and that's the subject of this thread). The Argentinians don't have a very good history regarding the treatment of their indigenous people, but then nor does any other former colony of European origin. More important is how they treat them now and in my experience they have a lot more respect for them than they do of anyone who isn't Argentinian. Where you're getting the idea that foreigners are treated better I really can't fathom! In certain very specific situations maybe ie. If you're European / North American and trying to rent an apartment without a garantia, your chances are one in a thousand as opposed to zero. Besides these very specific finance related situations I've felt very much discriminated against for not being Argentinian in almost every aspect of life here.

Of course, we all have different life experiences. If you were lucky enough to find a partner here and put in the 10 years it takes to get accepted by her family / peer group, you probably think they're the warmest people on earth. But that's only because they look upon you as an honorary Argentinian!

[Gandolf50]

I have to disagree with a few points. Argentine are mainly dark skinned, the fact that in the city you see more white people means nothing. Also, it was not Argentine who exterminated natives here but Spanish! You are right about trash and driving. Most people do pay their taxes, it is the rich who don't, they are a minority and they think they can get away with anything. Most foreigners get treated better because yes, you are more likely to do the right thing, and also because they see a cow they can milk out of dollars.

Where I live one in 20 pay their taxes. Every time I buy a piece of property they want you as the buyer to pay up the back taxes. Its a joke!

[Nikki]

It's not due to ignorance as the majority are quite well instructed in geography. They seem to get a kick out of it. The gaucho's woman or wife is called a Chinita. I don't know where this term originates but I'll look into it.

That is the point, they get a kick out of name calling and at times it is also a way to show affection (calling somebody negrito, gordito, rusito, etc).

The gaucho wife is called china. That is a quechua dialect voice that means female.

[Aqualung]

Negro isn't the insult, mierda is the insult. One of my best friends is El Negro ... He is not black, just darker than usual. He has never felt insulted by anyone at being called El Negro. Argentines have a tendency for simplifying. Anyone that is a little darker is called Negro, a blonde is called Ruso (so are Jews), Arabs etc are all Turcos, a Polaco is anyone from Eastern Europe etc etc etc. The supermarkets run mostly by Koreans are officially known as Supermercado Chino. It's not due to ignorance as the majority are quite well instructed in geography. They seem to get a kick out of it. The gaucho's woman or wife is called a Chinita. I don't know where this term originates but I'll look into it.

While political correctness in the World in general has reached exaggerated proportions the Argentines live blissfully unaware that the word racism even exists. Argentina was the first country in America to abolish slavery and most Argentines are the first or at the most the second generation of a mixture of nationalities or races.

But don't get me going about their jingoism. Their flag is the most beautiful, their national anthem is the best, their country is the richest and the list can go on for ever.

[Nikki]

Argentinos (in general of course) don't like indians or blacks. Call that what you may but I call it racism. You see it every day on the street and what they did to the indians in this country makes the US gov't look like angels (compared to what we did to our indians) . Another problem is that is similar (again in general) is the general lack of respect. They don't respect anything here. They throw trash everywhere, they drive like there are no rules of the road at all (a argentine friend describes it as other drivers or cars just don't exist so I can do what ever I want) Seven countries have travel advisory warnings on traveling to Argentina saying that you are not safe on the road or on the side walk! Interest rates are astronomical because it is so hard to collect from people that feel they don't need to pay. Most people don't pay their real estate taxes or the taxes on their cars. I could go on and on. This is why most foreigners get treated better (as pointed out in a previous post) , they trust in us more then in a fellow Argentiine. They feel that we are more likely to do the right thing. (compared to a Argentino) I have had this happen to me many times. I could go on and on but I am sure most people get the idea.

I have to disagree with a few points. Argentine are mainly dark skinned, the fact that in the city you see more white people means nothing. Also, it was not Argentine who exterminated natives here but Spanish! You are right about trash and driving. Most people do pay their taxes, it is the rich who don't, they are a minority and they think they can get away with anything. Most foreigners get treated better because yes, you are more likely to do the right thing, and also because they see a cow they can milk out of dollars.

[Gandolf50]

Argentinos (in general of course) don't like indians or blacks. Call that what you may but I call it racism. You see it every day on the street and what they did to the indians in this country makes the US gov't look like angels (compared to what we did to our indians) . Another problem is that is similar (again in general) is the general lack of respect. They don't respect anything here. They throw trash everywhere, they drive like there are no rules of the road at all (a argentine friend describes it as other drivers or cars just don't exist so I can do what ever I want) Seven countries have travel advisory warnings on traveling to Argentina saying that you are not safe on the road or on the side walk! Interest rates are astronomical because it is so hard to collect from people that feel they don't need to pay. Most people don't pay their real estate taxes or the taxes on their cars. I could go on and on. This is why most foreigners get treated better (as pointed out in a previous post) , they trust in us more then in a fellow Argentiine. They feel that we are more likely to do the right thing. (compared to a Argentino) I have had this happen to me many times. I could go on and on but I am sure most people get the idea.

[DavieW]

I've lived in 5 different countries on 3 different continents (including 7 years in Saudi Arabia!) and I'm now trapped in Argentina and really don't like it very much, but I have to admit that it's probably the least racist country I've ever been in. Xenophobia on the other hand, is rife (as Aqualung says). The jingoistic, nationalistic fervour is ingrained from the moment that kids start pre-school. It's already making me uneasy that my 4 year old is involved in flag raising and striking ceremonies every day.

It is unfortunate that dark-skinned people are often referred to as 'negro' and orientals as 'chino' and it made me uncomfortable for years (actually, 'chino' still does, particularly when the person referred to is obviously not Chinese) but it's become pretty clear that there's not anything racially charged about the terms and there's not a horrendous history of suppression of peoples based on skin colour, so it's fair to conclude that those terms are rarely used pejoratively.

In fact the worst case of racism I've ever witnessed in my 6 years in Argentina is Tejano Libre on this very board. He can't even type the word 'Indian' without spitting and commenting that they're the lowest form of life, and I don't give a damn how much good he does for anybody, for that reason alone I want nothing to do with him.

[Nikki]

So when an Argie calls someone 'negra mierda' that is just nationalism and not racism?

Yes and no. It is like when in the US an African American calls another African American " Nigger ". I must also add that somethimes the expression " negra / o de mierda " that is derogatory is used towards white people too. It could have to do with skin color, but it also has to do with certain habits and attitudes.

[Dickhead]

So when an Argie calls someone 'negra mierda' that is just nationalism and not racism?

[Nikki]

This is really a tricky forum because to say: Argentines are... Is as racist as to say for example Afros are... Or Japanese are ... Or Jews are... Etc etc etc.

As a foreigner living here for decades I have found that not being Argentine, in general, has been more to my benefit than otherwise.

Now, are Argentines racists? NO! 100% NO! They are nationalists. And that can be worse than racism! They believe that the Argentine "NATION" is superior to any other nation in the World.

My assistant for many years was a Chinese / Indonesian. Not once in all the years she worked with me did she feel racially excluded. Yes, she was treated differently. Most of the time to her benefit.

I'm a Brit and yes, I haven't been treated as an Argentine. I have had doors opened that many Argies in my condition would never have seen open.

I live in a very quiet, excluded area quite near BsAs but I have a neighbour two houses away who is Paraguayan. Is it racism that I have an ongoing battle with him because on Sundays he has half of Paraguay at his home for asados listening to blaring Chamame music while I try to sleep my siesta?

Is it racism when 80% of all pick-pockets in Buenos Aires are Peruvian or Chilean? (Yes, I can prove that).

In all my years of doing business in this country I have had three rubber checks. All three from Americans! It has never occurred to me to say or even think, Americans are untrustworthy. I had THREE bad experiences. That's it!

One of the chicas that reports here in AP has been fucked out of well over a 1000 US by an American "client" who at one time was a regular poster. She's too embarrassed with the situation to allow me to report here her name or the "artist" who fucked her out of her well earned money.

So, does one or two bastards make a nation?

There are some very good Argies, there are some very bad yanks. There are some very bad Argies and there are some very good yanks. There are very few good or bad Welsh in the World. There are very few of us!

I absolutely agree with you, I would add that in large cities you tend to run into more scams. Even in the Us, some Americans living in more suburban areas are somewhat fearful when going into large cities like NY because they know they have to be much more alert. I guess it depends on where you are coming from and where you are going. However I personally don't like to generalize.

[Aqualung]

This is really a tricky forum because to say: Argentines are... Is as racist as to say for example Afros are... Or Japanese are ... Or Jews are... Etc etc etc.

As a foreigner living here for decades I have found that not being Argentine, in general, has been more to my benefit than otherwise.

Now, are Argentines racists? NO! 100% NO! They are nationalists. And that can be worse than racism! They believe that the Argentine "NATION" is superior to any other nation in the World.

My assistant for many years was a Chinese / Indonesian. Not once in all the years she worked with me did she feel racially excluded. Yes, she was treated differently. Most of the time to her benefit.

I'm a Brit and yes, I haven't been treated as an Argentine. I have had doors opened that many Argies in my condition would never have seen open.

I live in a very quiet, excluded area quite near BsAs but I have a neighbour two houses away who is Paraguayan. Is it racism that I have an ongoing battle with him because on Sundays he has half of Paraguay at his home for asados listening to blaring Chamame music while I try to sleep my siesta?

Is it racism when 80% of all pick-pockets in Buenos Aires are Peruvian or Chilean? (Yes, I can prove that).

In all my years of doing business in this country I have had three rubber checks. All three from Americans! It has never occurred to me to say or even think, Americans are untrustworthy. I had THREE bad experiences. That's it!

One of the chicas that reports here in AP has been fucked out of well over a 1000 US by an American "client" who at one time was a regular poster. She's too embarrassed with the situation to allow me to report here her name or the "artist" who fucked her out of her well earned money.

So, does one or two bastards make a nation?

There are some very good Argies, there are some very bad yanks. There are some very bad Argies and there are some very good yanks. There are very few good or bad Welsh in the World. There are very few of us!

[Don B]

Don't know if this was profiling, a no no in the PC US. Made a round trip to Yapeyu. On the way back the bus was boarded twice at checkpoints by police. I was sitting near the front on top so didn't see what was going on behind me. First time took up about 20 minutes, the second about an hour. The second time they took a black guy off for about twenty minutes then let him back on. Then the questioned another black guy at the front of the bus for about 10 minutes. Made a long bus ride a lot longer.

Don B.

[Daddy Rulz]

Look who started and putting US to shame and insulting Argentina! He said... I also think it's funny that the boludo told somebody to be humble. Imagine an Argentine telling somebody to be less arrogant. JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA." Nice guy eh?

I love Argentina. I was insulting you, you clown. The only thing wrong with this country is under educated megalomaniacs just like you run it. We are not laughing with you Caricuture we are most certainly laughing at you.