American Politics during the Obama Presidency

[Rev BS]

I assume that's what you say when you look in that famous magic mirror of yours.

First of all I'm not convinced they are successful, other than for medicaid, but if and that's a big if they are why can't your all knowing big government do the same thing nationwide? Are you making a case for states rights?

More words of wisdom from your magic mirror?

Am I required to like him? I can't remember one time that you ever spoke out against anything with Obama's name on it, can you?

Nope, not all would be crap, his resignation would be considered a godsent.

I think I've gone as far as I can with this subject, anymore is not going to add additional value. It was never my intention for it to get personal. Time & elections will be the barometer for what Americans want.

For me, ACA has already achieve its purpose, and that is to change the footprint for health care in America. How it will survive in its original form does not matter to me as long as the universal mandate is present.

Buenos suerte.

[Tiny12]

As I said before, the maximum marginal FEDERAL rate is 39.6%. The surcharge kicks in at $200,000 for singles and $250,000 for marrieds. At that level of income, the top marginal rate is less than 39.6% by more than the surcharge rate, and the surcharge is levied only against "investment income", not salaries or earnings from actual work. The 39.6 bracket is for high income persons who make over $400,000 per year from work. For the marginal rate to exceed 39.6% and equal 43.4%, a person must have a combination of work income over $400,000 per year AND investment income. Those are the facts, and anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong.

$400,000 per year is a lot of money, and more than most all of the posters and readers of this forum make. Hats off and kudos to you, especially if you have investment income in excess of $200,000. You have my envy, but not my sympathy.

Tres3.

Tres, About the surcharge, you can call a train an orange as much as you want. That doesn't mean it's an orange. Every dollar of self-employment, interest, short term capital gains, or royalty income over $402,200 is taxed by the federal government at 43.4%. For people who get a paycheck, the marginal rate on salary income is 41.95%, with the employer picking up the 1.45% differential between two rates. I believe some part of the 3.8% Medicare / ACA component of tax on self employment income can be avoided if your business is in a Sub S corporation. But this strategy creates problems and doesn't work as well as LLC's for most businesses. I'm not looking for sympathy. I am pointing out that increasing marginal tax rates does not necessarily increase the amount of tax collected. High taxes, whether they be on people/businesses who make $20,000 a year or $20 million a year, reduce incentives and make the economy less dynamic.

[Tres3]

Tres, You should do your homework before you post. The maximum marginal rate is 43.4%, period. You can call it a surcharge if you wish. That doesn't alter the fact that if an individual, directly or through an LLC, makes $10 million in a year, he or she is going to pay 43.4% tax to the federal government on every dollar of ordinary income over $402,200. I did take into account the deduction for state and local income tax in what I quoted for California and New York rates. What you don't take into account is the effect of the Pease Amendment, which severely limits the amount of deductions on Schedule A for many upper income taxpayers. And yes, I agree, a host of other expenditures may be deductible if you are willing to lie and say personal expenditures are attributable to your business. Or if you're willing to do things that shouldn't make business sense but reduce your tax bill. I guess I am lazy as I now only work about 40 hours a week, a good part of which is keeping up with federal government bull shit, instead of around 70 hours a week in 2012. I do strongly agree with the last sentence of your post.

P.S. You conveniently neglect to mention that when you add sales taxes and property taxes to income taxes, the total taxes paid by many unincorporated businesses (and the individuals who own them) are much higher than the net profit. And the owners typically re-invest more of that profit in the business than they put in their pockets. When the owner dies, the maximum marginal federal death tax on what he owned is 40%. In other words, the majority of the "spoils" go to government.

As I said before, the maximum marginal FEDERAL rate is 39.6%. The surcharge kicks in at $200,000 for singles and $250,000 for marrieds. At that level of income, the top marginal rate is less than 39.6% by more than the surcharge rate, and the surcharge is levied only against "investment income", not salaries or earnings from actual work. The 39.6 bracket is for high income persons who make over $400,000 per year from work. For the marginal rate to exceed 39.6% and equal 43.4%, a person must have a combination of work income over $400,000 per year AND investment income. Those are the facts, and anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong.

$400,000 per year is a lot of money, and more than most all of the posters and readers of this forum make. Hats off and kudos to you, especially if you have investment income in excess of $200,000. You have my envy, but not my sympathy.

Tres3.

[Punter 127]

So arrogant.

I assume that's what you say when you look in that famous magic mirror of yours.

If 3 states can show that they can be successful, the other 47 states should be asking themselves how come they are shooting their own feet.

First of all I'm not convinced they are successful, other than for medicaid, but if and that's a big if they are why can't your all knowing big government do the same thing nationwide? Are you making a case for states rights?

Stubborn is stubborn.

More words of wisdom from your magic mirror?

Anything with Obama's name, yeah, got to be crap, right?

Am I required to like him? I can't remember one time that you ever spoke out against anything with Obama's name on it, can you?

Nope, not all would be crap, his resignation would be considered a godsent.

[Rev BS]

Woo-hoo Obamacare is successful in three state out of 50, baby we're cookin with gas now, it just don't get much better than this!

So arrogant. If 3 states can show that they can be successful, the other 47 states should be asking themselves how come they are shooting their own feet. Stubborn is stubborn. Anything with Obama's name, yeah, got to be crap, right?

[TejanoLibre]

We should all learn to get along better since WE are all going to be neighbors!

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" (Revelation 21:8).

Probably most "good people" would agree that "murderers, and whoremongers" deserve hell—but "the fearful, and unbelieving, . . . And all liars"? Would that not include just about everyone?

This shit sounds serious!

TL.

Murderers and whoremongers!

[Rev BS]

I admit to nothing. Just like the Republicans.

Well played, WT69! All of a sudden, who is being self-righteous?

[Tiny12]

You should do your homework before you post. According to the IRS, the top marginal rate for 2013 is 39.6% NOT the 43.4% stated in your post. The difference between what you say is a marginal rate of 43.4% and 39.6% is a surcharge that does not kick in until a single taxpayer earns more than $200,000 or a married taxpayer earns more than $250,000. We pay sales and property taxes no matter which party is in charge. You also conveniently neglect to mention that state and local income taxes as well as property taxes are deductible from federal income taxes, as are a host of other expenditures. If you do the arithmetic, it still does not add up to your original reason for working less. If you make more than the surcharge limits, you make a lot of money; however I still think you are lazy and no longer want to work. I do not care for Obama, but I do not blame him for everything that is wrong. I agree that Obama is inept, but so are a lot of other politicians, and there is plenty of blame for everyone.

Tres3.

Tres, You should do your homework before you post. The maximum marginal rate is 43.4%, period. You can call it a surcharge if you wish. That doesn't alter the fact that if an individual, directly or through an LLC, makes $10 million in a year, he or she is going to pay 43.4% tax to the federal government on every dollar of ordinary income over $402,200. I did take into account the deduction for state and local income tax in what I quoted for California and New York rates. What you don't take into account is the effect of the Pease Amendment, which severely limits the amount of deductions on Schedule A for many upper income taxpayers. And yes, I agree, a host of other expenditures may be deductible if you are willing to lie and say personal expenditures are attributable to your business. Or if you're willing to do things that shouldn't make business sense but reduce your tax bill. I guess I am lazy as I now only work about 40 hours a week, a good part of which is keeping up with federal government bull shit, instead of around 70 hours a week in 2012. I do strongly agree with the last sentence of your post.

P.S. You conveniently neglect to mention that when you add sales taxes and property taxes to income taxes, the total taxes paid by many unincorporated businesses (and the individuals who own them) are much higher than the net profit. And the owners typically re-invest more of that profit in the business than they put in their pockets. When the owner dies, the maximum marginal federal death tax on what he owned is 40%. In other words, the majority of the "spoils" go to government.

[Tres3]

The top marginal federal rate on income since January 1, 2013 is 43.4%. The top marginal federal + state + local income tax rate in California is around 56%, in New York City around 55%. And, as you know, there are also sales and property taxes, that both individuals and businesses must pay.

Fortunately the Republicans prevented tax rates from going up on everyone this year, so that total federal revenues as % of GDP are still reasonable by historical standards. Unfortunately, Tea Party Republicans were not able to prevent the federal government from continuing to spend like there's no tomorrow. So, despite the sequester, we continue to pile up massive amounts of debt for future generations to pay. Esten's and possibly your idea that this can be solved by increasing taxes on the rich is a pipe-dream. Even if some haven't already changed their behavior in response to higher rates, they don't have enough money to come close to solving the problem.

You should do your homework before you post. According to the IRS, the top marginal rate for 2013 is 39.6% NOT the 43.4% stated in your post. The difference between what you say is a marginal rate of 43.4% and 39.6% is a surcharge that does not kick in until a single taxpayer earns more than $200,000 or a married taxpayer earns more than $250,000. We pay sales and property taxes no matter which party is in charge. You also conveniently neglect to mention that state and local income taxes as well as property taxes are deductible from federal income taxes, as are a host of other expenditures. If you do the arithmetic, it still does not add up to your original reason for working less. If you make more than the surcharge limits, you make a lot of money; however I still think you are lazy and no longer want to work. I do not care for Obama, but I do not blame him for everything that is wrong. I agree that Obama is inept, but so are a lot of other politicians, and there is plenty of blame for everyone.

Tres3.

[WorldTravel69]

I admit to nothing. Just like the Republicans.

It was a Bill Maher joke that I said wrong.

WT69, So you admit that Obama lied?

[Tiny12]

WT69, So you admit that Obama lied?

[Punter 127]

With 39 Dems behind it, House passes Obamacare fix

From the Washington Post, Nov. 18,2013.(selected paragraphs).

"The ACA has been successful in our states (Connecticut, Kentucky, Washington) because our political & community leaders grasped the importance of expanding health care coverage and have avoided the temptation to use health care reform as political football.

In Kentucky, two independent studies showed that the Bluegrass state couldn't afford to not to expand Medicaid. Expansion offered hugh savings in the state budget and is expected to create 17,000 jobs."

Woo-hoo Obamacare is successful in three state out of 50, baby we're cookin with gas now, it just don't get much better than this!

Wait until the employer mandates kick in, possibly 50-90 million more cancellations.

So what gives? Why are some states seeing ACA as a beneficial & successful legislation, whilst others look at it like a plague? Just because your Daddy tell you so?

I didn't hear Daddy say anything, why you dragging him in this?

Let the ruckus, and bellyaching go on for a while. Goodness & Truth will prevail. When the voting public see how the stubborn Republican governors have screwed them, you might see a few meltdowns. 15 lashes of the cane for the con men.

Sorry this is not Singapore, no caning allowed. You know the forum was quite until you and WT poured gas on the fire.

, But Where Is he New Health Care Package that the Republicans want?[snip]

“Thirty-nine House Democrats on Friday broke ranks to support a Republican bill that would allow health insurers to continue selling plans canceled under Obamacare through 2014, the first test of support on Capitol Hill since the law’s disastrous rollout.

The House voted, 261-157, to pass the bill by Rep. Fred Upton (R-Mich.). It’s a significant show of disloyalty to the White House.” Obama says he will veto the bill, but most of those 39 are up for reelection next year, do you think they see the handwriting on the wall? Oh and remember these guys are part of the party that let the government be shut down rather than negotiate on ObamaCare. Now they've got their tails tucked between their legs and their running for the door.

Tiny12 already has benefited indirectly from his cancelled insurance. Who's next? And the saga of Punter127 continues?

What a piece of work you are, you got the guys insurance cancelled so he went outside ObamaCare and found another policy, and now you want credit for his good luck. [Shaking my head]

Btw BS I know it's hard for a nanny like you to understand, but you needn't concern yourself with the Punter 127 saga, my decisions have been made and as always I will take care of myself!

[Punter 127]

The message was about being Black or White.

So you are race baiting?

[Tiny12]

Be careful about your history. The top marginal federal income tax rate did not go below 70% until 1982. In 1987 the top marginal rate went below 50% for the first time since 1932. The top marginal rate has not been above 39.6% since 1987.

Tres3.

The top marginal federal rate on income since January 1, 2013 is 43.4%. The top marginal federal + state + local income tax rate in California is around 56%, in New York City around 55%. And, as you know, there are also sales and property taxes, that both individuals and businesses must pay.

Fortunately the Republicans prevented tax rates from going up on everyone this year, so that total federal revenues as % of GDP are still reasonable by historical standards. Unfortunately, Tea Party Republicans were not able to prevent the federal government from continuing to spend like there's no tomorrow. So, despite the sequester, we continue to pile up massive amounts of debt for future generations to pay. Esten's and possibly your idea that this can be solved by increasing taxes on the rich is a pipe-dream. Even if some haven't already changed their behavior in response to higher rates, they don't have enough money to come close to solving the problem.

[WorldTravel69]

The message was about being Black or White.

Your post is Bizarre. Do you know what you are attempting to say?

Tres3.