Cablegate Wikileaks

[Wild Walleye]

Another question, even though you haven't answered my question on what law has Assange broken. But an adenda to that question. In what jurisdiction?

While you may not have noticed, wienerleaks was under a massive, prolonged ddos attack that all but shut down their primary host, forcing them to rely on their back-up host which, and I have no idea why he would set it up this way, happens to be in the US. Publicly disseminating classified US Govt data via wire (that's where the internet falls in the some what outdated jargon) with the intent to do harm to the US. Further, as I stated earlier (directly pointing out what I believe to be the slam dunk charges) he knowingly received a stolen Band of America hard drive and is using the information that it contained in a massive extortion plot against the US and several other governments.

Like I have said many times, there once was a day when problems like this deftly handled by people we have never heard of.

[Wild Walleye]

Once again, you use a machine-gun to prevent a point of view that is different from yours

I haven't prevented anyone from saying anything. I don't have the administrator's tools at my disposal. Even if I did, I certainly wouldn't delete too many post. Why would I? If you were more observant, you'd notice that I do the exact opposite of what you claim by presenting (in most cases) the other posters' comments in their entirety and address them on a point by point basis.

Being discussed. I do think this forum can handle plurality of views without the insistent rat-a tat tat of your views.

I don't. Besides, you like my posts.

Another question, even though you haven't answered my question on what law has Assange broken.

For starters, he has knowingly received and distributed stolen property for profit. Some of the stolen property belongs to the the US Govt and bank of America. How did he get actually take possession of that stolen property? Was it via electronic transmission originating or terminating within the sovereign territory of the United States?

But an adenda to that question. In what jurisdiction?

How about the US?

Since when did the laws of the USA mean that they apply anywhere else in the world to non-US citizens?

I'm sorry, I thought that since you were posting on this site, it meant you could read. Since when did not being a US citizen grant individuals immunity to US laws?

Never, ever going to happen.

I don't disagree. To the current US administration, Assange is probably a hero.

For my own information, having followed your posts for the past few months,

I am certain that you have learned much, grasshopper.

how come you are so great at knowing the real meaning of what other people post or say?

Because that is what I do. Some people paint, others sculpt. I mind fuck.

Me, I take what is expressed as the intent of the statement.

I don't doubt that. It would explain quite a bit.

My last word on this subject to you.

No it isn't

[Lysander]

I can answer that for you: "Es un sabe lo todo, pero en realidad, no sabe nada."

Nice one Schmoj

[Schmoj]

Once again, you use a machine-gun to prevent a point of view that is different from yours being discussed. I do think this forum can handle plurality of views without the insistent rat-a tat tat of your views. Another question, even though you haven't answered my question on what law has Assange broken. But an adenda to that question. In what jurisdiction? Since when did the laws of the USA mean that they apply anywhere else in the world to non-US citizens? Never, ever going to happen. For my own information, having followed your posts for the past few months, how come you are so great at knowing the real meaning of what other people post or say? Me, I take what is expressed as the intent of the statement.

My last word on this subject to you.

Argento

I can answer that for you: "Es un sabe lo todo, pero en realidad, no sabe nada."

[Argento]

Now you're getting the picture.

There is considerable bouncing back and forth between emotion and the real world, on this subject. I will leave the emotional realm to those of you who think rouge actors should be allowed self-determination as to which legal code, if any, they should be held accountable.

As far as the real world, let's get a couple of things straight.

No one has said that Assange actually stole the documents. The fact that he personally didn't perpetrate the theft does not absolve him from complicity or guilt. If this were the case, Nixon would not have needed to resign (sticking with the Nixon reference).

The fact that Manning had access to the documents does not mean that he was cleared to view them. In fact, the case against Manning probably should include more than 250, 000 counts of illegally accessing files. Nine Ohio state workers were nailed for illegally accessing Obama's files and three US State Department workers / contractors wound up in deep shit for accessing files regarding the passport records of McCain, Clinton and Obama, during the last presidential election cycle. All of the aforementioned individuals had legal access to the systems, all broke the law when they accessed files not specifically germane to their tasks.

Knowing receipt of and benefit from the distribution of stolen property is a crime in some places, including the US. Otherwise, fencing stolen goods would be legal.

You don't have to physically be present in the US (or other nations) to run afoul of US law.

Assange is not a US citizen. All that means is that he is not entitled to Constitutional protections. That does not mean that he is free to act with impunity as it relates to US public and private interests.

Adding and abetting a crime is still against the law.

However, in my opinion, the 'insurance file' is the slam dunk on putting Assange in jail.

He has already admitted to knowingly accepted a stolen hard drive from Bank of America and that he intends to us private proprietary information contained within the stolen material, as well as stolen information from BP and other companies, for purposes of extortion. Extortion is illegal in the US and the UK.

Additionally, he has made it known that the 'insurance file' includes non-redacted military and intelligence information. If the material outs any US undercover agents or assets, he will be guilty of violating the Foreign Intelligence and Identities Act.

I am willing to bet that those of you who think Manning and Assange are heroes probably thought Scooter LIbby should have received the death penalty for 'outing' Valarie Plame (he did nothing of the sort).

Again, I miss the days of olde (pre-Church Commission) when we as a nation had the sack to remediate problems like this before they metastasized into major issues.

I am not the one who originally brought up Nixon.

I don't think that was what Bob said. I think he was pointing out that not all commentators come from the same general perspective of US citizens.

Grow up. What do you think foreign policy is? Which country do you hold up as an example of really transparent and honest via foreign policy? Argentina? Cuba? Russia? Venezuela?

If there are to be no state secrets, could start with the details of Iran's and North Korea's nuclear programs?

That is what Assange would like you to think. In fact, it isn't.

Me too. I shake my head wondering why we don't stand up to certain global dirtbags.

Who needs to let go of the outdated vietnam cliches?

Modern electronic means of disseminating information make policing one's own data more difficult, not impossible. Nor will such distribution capabilities alter the longstanding legal and ethical premise that people entrusted with confidential information shall either keep it confidential or face the consequences.

Once again, you use a machine-gun to prevent a point of view that is different from yours being discussed. I do think this forum can handle plurality of views without the insistent rat-a tat tat of your views. Another question, even though you haven't answered my question on what law has Assange broken. But an adenda to that question. In what jurisdiction? Since when did the laws of the USA mean that they apply anywhere else in the world to non-US citizens? Never, ever going to happen. For my own information, having followed your posts for the past few months, how come you are so great at knowing the real meaning of what other people post or say? Me, I take what is expressed as the intent of the statement.

My last word on this subject to you.

Argento

[Wild Walleye]

Lot of mud being stirred up here but related to completely different issues. So far Jackson thinks the releases are giving an advantage to America's enemies, Wild Walleye mixes everything from Nixon, Watergate et al

I am not the one who originally brought up Nixon.

and Miami Bob thinks that I ought not to have an opinion and more than likely, because I am not a US citizen, I am a fifth columnist acting against America's interests. What a crock of shit.

I don't think that was what Bob said. I think he was pointing out that not all commentators come from the same general perspective of US citizens.

The deceitfulness of US foreign policy for the past 30 years has underminded the esteem it was held in.

Grow up. What do you think foreign policy is? Which country do you hold up as an example of really transparent and honest via foreign policy? Argentina? Cuba? Russia? Venezuela?

A bit of transparency and light may be the catalyst to shake up the State Department to realize that the world has moved on and the issues are no longer things to be kept secret from the masses.

If there are to be no state secrets, could start with the details of Iran's and North Korea's nuclear programs?

Which of course is the whole purpose of WikiLeaks.

That is what Assange would like you to think. In fact, it isn't.

And for the record, I am on the side of the USA but that is not to say that at times I have to shake my head in disbelief at the cack-handed way they conduct foreign policy and go to physical war as a way to resolve political issues.

Me too. I shake my head wondering why we don't stand up to certain global dirtbags.

I am just so glad that my children haven't had to die in a ditch over some piece of rock and sand that some faceless prick nominated as a 'must take' and 'must hold'

Who needs to let go of the outdated vietnam cliches?

Get used to it, the internet will increasingly make it impossible for governments to be 2 faced in their intergovernment dealings and the faceless pricks will be 'outed'.

Modern electronic means of disseminating information make policing one's own data more difficult, not impossible. Nor will such distribution capabilities alter the longstanding legal and ethical premise that people entrusted with confidential information shall either keep it confidential or face the consequences.

[Argento]

Lot of mud being stirred up here but related to completely different issues. So far Jackson thinks the releases are giving an advantage to America's enemies, Wild Walleye mixes everything from Nixon, Watergate et al and Miami Bob thinks that I ought not to have an opinion and more than likely, because I am not a US citizen, I am a fifth columnist acting against America's interests. What a crock of shit. The deceitfulness of US foreign policy for the past 30 years has underminded the esteem it was held in. A bit of transparency and light may be the catalyst to shake up the State Department to realize that the world has moved on and the issues are no longer things to be kept secret from the masses. Which of course is the whole purpose of WikiLeaks.

And for the record, I am on the side of the USA but that is not to say that at times I have to shake my head in disbelief at the cack-handed way they conduct foreign policy and go to physical war as a way to resolve political issues. I am just so glad that my children haven't had to die in a ditch over some piece of rock and sand that some faceless prick nominated as a 'must take' and 'must hold' Get used to it, the internet will increasingly make it impossible for governments to be 2 faced in their intergovernment dealings and the faceless pricks will be 'outed'.

Argento

[Wild Walleye]

Assange in turn handed them off to The New York Times, The Guardian, Derl Speigel etc. They all in turn disseminated the information to the rest of the media.

If Assange is guilty of a crime then so is The New York Times et al.

Now you're getting the picture.

Assange didn't steal any documents. Private Manning copied documents that he was cleared to view and handed them off to Assange.

There is considerable bouncing back and forth between emotion and the real world, on this subject. I will leave the emotional realm to those of you who think rouge actors should be allowed self-determination as to which legal code, if any, they should be held accountable.

As far as the real world, let's get a couple of things straight.

No one has said that Assange actually stole the documents. The fact that he personally didn't perpetrate the theft does not absolve him from complicity or guilt. If this were the case, Nixon would not have needed to resign (sticking with the Nixon reference).

The fact that Manning had access to the documents does not mean that he was cleared to view them. In fact, the case against Manning probably should include more than 250, 000 counts of illegally accessing files. Nine Ohio state workers were nailed for illegally accessing Obama's files and three US State Department workers / contractors wound up in deep shit for accessing files regarding the passport records of McCain, Clinton and Obama, during the last presidential election cycle. All of the aforementioned individuals had legal access to the systems, all broke the law when they accessed files not specifically germane to their tasks.

Knowing receipt of and benefit from the distribution of stolen property is a crime in some places, including the US. Otherwise, fencing stolen goods would be legal.

You don't have to physically be present in the US (or other nations) to run afoul of US law.

Assange is not a US citizen. All that means is that he is not entitled to Constitutional protections. That does not mean that he is free to act with impunity as it relates to US public and private interests.

Adding and abetting a crime is still against the law.

However, in my opinion, the 'insurance file' is the slam dunk on putting Assange in jail.

He has already admitted to knowingly accepted a stolen hard drive from Bank of America and that he intends to us private proprietary information contained within the stolen material, as well as stolen information from BP and other companies, for purposes of extortion. Extortion is illegal in the US and the UK.

Additionally, he has made it known that the 'insurance file' includes non-redacted military and intelligence information. If the material outs any US undercover agents or assets, he will be guilty of violating the Foreign Intelligence and Identities Act.

I am willing to bet that those of you who think Manning and Assange are heroes probably thought Scooter LIbby should have received the death penalty for 'outing' Valarie Plame (he did nothing of the sort).

Again, I miss the days of olde (pre-Church Commission) when we as a nation had the sack to remediate problems like this before they metastasized into major issues.

[BadMan]

Huh?

How about Theft of classified US Government documents, for starters.

Assange didn't steal any documents. Private Manning copied documents that he was cleared to view and handed them off to Assange. Assange in turn handed them off to The New York Times, The Guardian, Derl Speigel etc. They all in turn disseminated the information to the rest of the media.

If Assange is guilty of a crime then so is The New York Times et al.

[Miami Bob]

From some of the comments, they may be rooting against the USA.

[Jackson]

For those of you who think that Private Manning and Julian Assange are heros, consider this analogy:

Some American citizens don't like their government. Okay, I get it. Fine. So criticize the coach, chastise the players, berate the management, advocate for a change in personnel, cancel your season tickets, stop attending the games, don't buy the merchandise, etc., etc., etc. But whatever you do, don't pretend to assuage your displeasure with their performance by giving their playbook to all the other teams, because all that does is hurt our team's chances of winning the game.

Unless, of course, you're actually rooting for the other team.

Get it?

Thanks,

Jackson

[Guestrex]

Assange just became an even bigger asshat by releasing over 250,000 documents, unredacted and saying that if anyone takes his website offline he will release the code to open them. What a fucking narcissistic pole.

Just to keep things factual, Assange's "insurance file" that your speaking of was released back in July of this year.

[Jackson]

Assange has broken no laws either in the USA or elsewhere that I am aware off.

Huh?

How about Theft of classified US Government documents, for starters.

[Argento]

Assange just became an even bigger asshat by releasing over 250,000 documents, unredacted and saying that if anyone takes his website offline he will release the code to open them. What a fucking narcissistic pole.

Welllll Nugget, so much for free speech and governments supposedly acting in the interests of its constituents. I take the view that transparency and directness are greatly lacking in today's world. That piece of shit, Kissinger, hated the people at large being privy to intergovernment diplomacy. Since he achieved exactly fuck-all for America while he was Secretary of State, maybe Assange's commitment to transparency might achieve more. And besides, Assange has broken no laws either in the USA or elsewhere that I am aware off. Three cheers if he pulls it off. His poison pill will focus a few of the minds of US State department officials.

Argento

[Nugget]

Assange just became an even bigger asshat by releasing over 250,000 documents, unredacted and saying that if anyone takes his website offline he will release the code to open them. What a fucking narcissistic pole.