Porteños

[Tres3]

Credit card fraud happens everywhere in the world. Nothing special about Buenos Aires. That said, never use a credit card, debit card, or ATM card in Argentina because you'll take a 60% beating on the exchange rate. If the rate differential went away, I'd go back to using cards and ATM's in BA in a heartbeat.

At least with card fraud, the bank covers it and it doesn't cost you anything. You lose cash to a thief and it's unlikely you'll ever get it back.

If I absolutely have to use plastic, I try to get cash from an ATM and the pay for my consumption with cash. Hotels and restaurants usually give a less favorable exchange rate than banks or licensed money changers. The bank will probably cover a fraud loss if you use plastic, but there is still the hassle of notifying people on auto pay or merchants who have recorded the card number that you have a new account number and expiration date. Most credit cards have a "foreign transaction" fee in addition to an exchange rate fee, while most ATM cards only charge an exchange rate fee. There are a few ATM cards, such as Schwab, that have no ATM fees and no exchange rate fees. If the country you are visiting has a safe black market, use the ATM to exchange only enough to get you to a safe USD cash money changer. If it is difficult or impossible to change the local currency back to USD, change only a small amount at a time. Take enough USD cash for your trip consumption. If you did not bring enough USD cash to cover your trip, and the country has exchange controls (ex: Argentina) use a transfer service such as ZOOM to get the extra money you need. You will take a haircut over the black market rate, but will receive better than the "official" rate. Use the hotel or apartment safe and a money belt. Only carry enough local currency cash, especially if you are going to drink, that you can afford to lose, and try to pay all taxis, especially at night, the exact change, with small bills. Do not let the small head do the thinking normally done by the large head.

Never, ever pay a chica with USD.

Tres3.

[Easy Go]

Credit card fraud happens everywhere in the world. Nothing special about Buenos Aires. That said, never use a credit card, debit card, or ATM card in Argentina because you'll take a 60% beating on the exchange rate. If the rate differential went away, I'd go back to using cards and ATM's in BA in a heartbeat.

At least with card fraud, the bank covers it and it doesn't cost you anything. You lose cash to a thief and it's unlikely you'll ever get it back.

[Old Coach]

Just spoke with a colleague who took a boat trip from Rio, stopping for a day in BsAs, through the Falklands, South Pole etc. They had lunch in downtown B'sA's and paid by credit card. By the time they reached Santiago the card had been scammed of USD8000.

He suspects that the transaction was possibly observed and recorded on a CCTV camera. So,having access to his PIN, they used the card daily until the fraud was detected.

I seldom use credit cards when traveling (almost always use cash). This type of thing discourages one from visiting countries such as Argentina and Italy (as beautiful as they are), where everyone seems to be exploiting and trying to cheat and steal from foreigners.

[DavieW]

OK, let's bring this over here as well.

You haven't apologized for what you said about the Catholic church. I assume that you will be banned from this site since our understanding (can't remember exactly the policy of Argentina Private), this is not a site that by any means one can insult or express his hate to others as you did.

Just waiting for what the administrator has to say.

This is what I said:

As far as the pope is concerned, I've got no idea if he's a good man or not, but the fact that he's now head of the most evil organization in the history of man doesn't exactly bode well. The Catholic church has been responsible for more wars and more human suffering than any government or so-called evil empire, ever. I had a Catholic upbringing as it happens. My secondary school was eventually closed down after most of the Christian Brothers who ran it were sent to jail for buggering the boarders. They make the Nazis look like naughty schoolboys.

"The Catholic church has been responsible for more wars and more human suffering than any government or so-called evil empire, ever." This is a verifiable FACT.

"My secondary school was eventually closed down after most of the Christian Brothers who ran it were sent to jail for buggering the boarders." Another verifiable FACT, not to mention the thousands of documented cases of Catholic priest pedophiles around the world. Bad enough in itself, but unforgiveable the way that previous popes have actively covered it up and let the guilty priests escape prosecution. Let's see if this new Argentine pope does something about it. Or will he turn his head also?

"They make the Nazis look like naughty schoolboys." That's my opinion, but having been raised and educated for 18 years as a Catholic, I'm fully entitled to express my opinion, in the same way as african-americans are free to use the "N" word and homosexuals are free to call each other queer.

I don't hate Catholics, most of my family are still Catholics. I hate the hierarchy of the Catholic church. The people who have allowed the killing in the name of the church and who continue to allow the child-abuse. And let's not get started on the incredible wealth of the Vatican whilst there are still millions of people starving around the world. Did you know that if the Vatican sold 10% of the riches they own they could feed all the starving people in the world for the next 200 years? Sure, I wouldn't sell it off if it was mine, but I'm not an organization that claims to be for the good of all God's people. And who's now at the head of this organization? Oh shit, it's a Porteño! God save us!

What is it I have to apologize for again?

[DavieW]

Argentina was not design for you."You the tourist" have to adapt and respect the country. Argentina is a proud country because of its geography, (eight largest of the world), immensely rich, and European character and so many other things.

We love our country!

You are probably envious because Argentinians didn't let you integrate with them. May be the way you are.

Argentina doesn't need people who are insulting his idol "the Pope" You made a mistake!

I don't HAVE to respect anything. Respect is earned. Argentina hasn't shown me anything that deserves any respect. I've been robbed 20 times. Once being threatened with violence with my 4 year old son in my arms. Three times by the police, who then offered me protection for a monthly payment. The government is a disaster, in fact EVERY government this country has ever had has been a disaster, thanks to endemic corruption. It really SHOULD be a rich country. It has amazing natural resources. But it really isn't, it's a third world country that lurches from one disaster to the next, thinking it's above the rest of the world. I genuinely feel sorry for its people. I'm sure the majority deserve a lot better (I'm yet to meet any of them, but I live in hope!

And listen to yourself. "It's big" and "it has a European character (rather than its own unique Latino character)" are the best you can come up with to be proud of? Oh and the bloody pope, AGAIN!

[Rockin Bob]

Argentina was not design for you."You the tourist" have to adapt and respect the country. Argentina is a proud country because of its geography, (eight largest of the world), immensely rich, and European character and so many other things.

We love our country!

You are probably envious because Argentinians didn't let you integrate with them. May be the way you are.

Argentina doesn't need people who are insulting his idol "the Pope" You made a mistake!

Man, sometimes porteños can be annoying and you just have to vent! Basically it's all small beer nothing to get worked up about.

I love Argentina too, and I respect the country. There is that inevitable culture clash that is the problem. We have our way of doing things, you have yours.

You just have to adapt and take the good with the bad.

Rather live here than the USA, that's for sure!

[Caricoso]

Not sure I agree with the New Yorker analogy. I think the "nobody likes New Yorkers" line is just that 'a line'. It's more a construct for stand-up comedians than a truth. It's like the way Brits will criticize scousers (people from Liverpool), but everyone who actually knows a scouser loves them. Same with Glaswegians, Cockneys etc etc. It feels here as though the rest of the country actually despises Porteños. Maybe I'm wrong though, I wouldn't expect to be able to understand all the subtleties of what's actually said compared to what's actually meant, to be able to be sure!

Because I'm trustworthy! Trust isn't a reciprocal thing. It's something you're either worthy of or you're not. And I'm sorry to have to point it out to you Nikki, but it's a very typical Argentine trait to project their own shortcomings onto everyone else like that! It's exactly why there's no such thing as 'Customer Service' here. It literally does NOT exist. If you go and complain to Telefonica's so-called Customer Service for example, they will give you a bad attitude back because you're giving them a bad attitude by complaining. There's absolutely zero chance of the standard Customer Service mantra of "the customer is always right" being adopted here! Ha ha! The very thought is making me laugh out loud!

Again, it's actually not. It's at worst, culturally insensitive. There really is a sense of misplaced arrogance about the people here. If you've actually achieved anything and have a right to boast about it, you can still come across as an arrogant ass, but here the brag "the pope is Argentine" is properly pathetic. That's not an achievement by the Argentine people or even less so by the government! The reason I say it could be construed as culturally insensitive is because there really is very little to be proud of if you're Argentinian, so maybe we shouldn't rub it in and just let them be proud of the fact that there's a lot of cattle here and that they won the World Cup in 1986 by only cheating a little bit. .

Argentina was not design for you."You the tourist" have to adapt and respect the country. Argentina is a proud country because of its geography, (eight largest of the world), immensely rich, and European character and so many other things.

We love our country!

You are probably envious because Argentinians didn't let you integrate with them. May be the way you are.

Argentina doesn't need people who are insulting his idol "the Pope" You made a mistake!

[DavieW]

Porteños are the local equivalent to New Yorkers. The rest of the country does not like us, just like in the rest of the US they do not like people from NYC.

Not sure I agree with the New Yorker analogy. I think the "nobody likes New Yorkers" line is just that 'a line'. It's more a construct for stand-up comedians than a truth. It's like the way Brits will criticize scousers (people from Liverpool), but everyone who actually knows a scouser loves them. Same with Glaswegians, Cockneys etc etc. It feels here as though the rest of the country actually despises Porteños. Maybe I'm wrong though, I wouldn't expect to be able to understand all the subtleties of what's actually said compared to what's actually meant, to be able to be sure!

Also, you do not trust porteños, why should they trust you?

Because I'm trustworthy! Trust isn't a reciprocal thing. It's something you're either worthy of or you're not. And I'm sorry to have to point it out to you Nikki, but it's a very typical Argentine trait to project their own shortcomings onto everyone else like that! It's exactly why there's no such thing as 'Customer Service' here. It literally does NOT exist. If you go and complain to Telefonica's so-called Customer Service for example, they will give you a bad attitude back because you're giving them a bad attitude by complaining. There's absolutely zero chance of the standard Customer Service mantra of "the customer is always right" being adopted here! Ha ha! The very thought is making me laugh out loud!

This comment "when they have nothing to be arrogant about" that you make, is arrogant.

Again, it's actually not. It's at worst, culturally insensitive. There really is a sense of misplaced arrogance about the people here. If you've actually achieved anything and have a right to boast about it, you can still come across as an arrogant ass, but here the brag "the pope is Argentine" is properly pathetic. That's not an achievement by the Argentine people or even less so by the government! The reason I say it could be construed as culturally insensitive is because there really is very little to be proud of if you're Argentinian, so maybe we shouldn't rub it in and just let them be proud of the fact that there's a lot of cattle here and that they won the World Cup in 1986 by only cheating a little bit. .

[Nikki]

My first thought reading this thread was Don't get me started.

I'm started. Yes, the porteños. After 8 years here I think I have the idea.

Yes, they are fairly obnoxious. Start with the waiters. Can I at least get a Hello, I'll be with you in a minute! No. When they finally feel like it they will come over to leave a menu. Then centuries later they will come and take your order. Then after you eat you can wait an eternity to get their attention to ask for the check.

Ever encounter a city where it is impossible to walk around without somebody colliding into you or blocking your way? Where will they stand talking? Right in the doorway. The widest sidewalks are along 9 de Julio. Try to walk for two blocks in a straight line and see if you can do it uninterrupted. I once had a big discussion with an American tourist about this, he was the one who brought it up.

They are impossible to talk to in public. It is against the rules. Which is partly an inheritance from the Italian culture. Italians as a rule simply ignore everyone in public. Argentines also tend to go out say to a club on weekends in groups, as do Italians. You have known the members of your group since childhood. It is a safe enclave, they really don't need outsiders. It's just the way they are, it's part of their culture for better or worse and I don't fault them for it.

That being said, it really depends on what part of Buenos Aires you are in. Start for example at Patio Bullrich in Recoleta and head out from there. The farther you go away from that point, the less obnoxious they are, until you find yourself west of Callao or south of Av. De Mayo / Rivadavia (where the streets change names) where the people actually become friendly.

Waiters wait. Bartenders tend. People gladly help with directions. You can talk to the person sitting next to you. Or better yet, they will even start to talk to you.

As for the rest of the country, I only know Mesapotamia but I found the people there invariably friendly and outgoing. As with most other non-porteños I have met here in BsAs.

I have to disagree with Spassmussein: it does not depend ON YOU. I was born and lived a good part of my life in New York, but spent a good chunk of the rest of it in 3 other places: South Carolina, Sao Paulo, and here. In New York and Sao Paulo, all I ever had was a good time, the people were friendly, human interactions were always an opportunity to talk and laugh, even just momentary encounters (I don't know how NYC is now! I'm talking 25 years ago on that! I often go back to SP just for the pleasure of being in the city (well, to go to Bomboa, too, but that's another thread). But in South Carolina, like here, you waste so much energy dealing with idiots. The south is actually worse than here, the people are downright obnoxious (I'm talking about the rednecks, not the blacks). Anyone remember years ago there was a tourist ad campaign for Jamaica that said, Jamaica, No Problem? I always thought South Carolina should have an ad campaign, SC: Everything's a Problem. I remain the same in all places, so I have to conclude it depends ON THEM.

The problem with porteños is that their ego keeps writing checks that the rest of their being ain't cashing.

My parting comment: have you ever seen people more poorly dressed in any major city you have been in? Ever seen so many shabby, ill-fitting suits on men as you do walking through the microcentro? Ever see a well dressed woman in this town? The young people are a disgrace. The kids in Sao Paulo really know how to dress, here it is embarrassing. I live by a couple of nightclubs and I see them and wince. The other night I saw two guys and I said to myself, finally somebody here knows how to dress! But I ended up talking with them after I saw they were being asked for autographs: they were English rockers here on tour!

One more thing, about the money! Has anybody ever encountered anyone anywhere you can trust when it comes to money?

I agree with some of your points hehehe. Waiters are not the smiley can I help you type you get in the US. Not sure if it is a tradition or they are just no enthusiastic due to scarce tips. Who knows. I grew up to that, so it does not really bother me, but when you compare, they are more friendly in other countries for sure. Then again, I find it rude when waiters in the US rush you with the check.

People in this city are more friendly in the more " normal " neighborhoods. And nope, those do not include Recoleta, Puerto Madero or Palermo! I lived in Recoleta most of my life, and people are obnoxious in general and would not even say Hello, to you after seeing you live next door for the last 10 years. But in other places, people are more relaxed and friendly, much more.

The idea of personal space has nothing to do with that you have in the US or Europe. Yes, you get bumped and people run into you inevitably. This bugs me a lot sometimes especially if you are out with children, etc.

On dressing up, it is a very different style to the US. Not sure if better or worse but very different. I guess one has a natural tendency to liking things the way they are back home (Overall I believe expats, especially American, just take the whole arrogant attitude too seriously, people are not even aware of the way they are seen by you, I guess the same thing goes for Americans back home. It is already part of the porteño being, not likely to change in the near future for sure, but why should it change if this is porteñoland? I can only imagine the things people would say to me if I was in the US telling Americans how to behave. I have met some truly obnoxious, uneducated Americans, both male and female. If you take the whole " attitude " with a bit of humor you are going to have a much better time.

The talking in public thing, and italians I don't get, butI have never been to Italy.

[Nikki]

It might be arrogant, but it is true. Don't you get tired of the "Pres" taking over the airwaves every other day and telling one and all how "we" (Argentina) is the best in the world in this, and the first in the world in that, etc. Etc. Its like their claim to Antarctica and the Falklands. All lies and bullshit. And being a born and bred New Yorker I have not found that people in other parts of the US disliked me. True there is a dislike of the stereotype New Yorker, just like there is a dislike of the stereotyped bigoted southern cracker.

Queen CFK does not count. She acts like a P.S.ycho freak IMHO she is one...ugh thinking about her made me nauseousThe porteño arrogant attitude comes before her and will most likely stay after she leaves. Crossing fingers that will happen soon.

[Gandolf50]

Porteños are the local equivalent to New Yorkers. The rest of the country does not like us, just like in the rest of the US they do not like people from NYC. The difference is that in the US people are more politically correct. Also, you do not trust porteños, why should they trust you?

This comment " when they have nothing to be arrogant about " that you make, is arrogant.

It might be arrogant, but it is true. Don't you get tired of the "Pres" taking over the airwaves every other day and telling one and all how "we" (Argentina) is the best in the world in this, and the first in the world in that, etc. Etc. Its like their claim to Antarctica and the Falklands. All lies and bullshit. And being a born and bred New Yorker I have not found that people in other parts of the US disliked me. True there is a dislike of the stereotype New Yorker, just like there is a dislike of the stereotyped bigoted southern cracker.

[Rockin Bob]

My first thought reading this thread was Don't get me started.

I'm started. Yes, the porteños. After 8 years here I think I have the idea.

Yes, they are fairly obnoxious. Start with the waiters. Can I at least get a Hello, I'll be with you in a minute! No. When they finally feel like it they will come over to leave a menu. Then centuries later they will come and take your order. Then after you eat you can wait an eternity to get their attention to ask for the check.

Ever encounter a city where it is impossible to walk around without somebody colliding into you or blocking your way? Where will they stand talking? Right in the doorway. The widest sidewalks are along 9 de Julio. Try to walk for two blocks in a straight line and see if you can do it uninterrupted. I once had a big discussion with an American tourist about this, he was the one who brought it up.

They are impossible to talk to in public. It is against the rules. Which is partly an inheritance from the Italian culture. Italians as a rule simply ignore everyone in public. Argentines also tend to go out say to a club on weekends in groups, as do Italians. You have known the members of your group since childhood. It is a safe enclave, they really don't need outsiders. It's just the way they are, it's part of their culture for better or worse and I don't fault them for it.

That being said, it really depends on what part of Buenos Aires you are in. Start for example at Patio Bullrich in Recoleta and head out from there. The farther you go away from that point, the less obnoxious they are, until you find yourself west of Callao or south of Av. De Mayo / Rivadavia (where the streets change names) where the people actually become friendly.

Waiters wait. Bartenders tend. People gladly help with directions. You can talk to the person sitting next to you. Or better yet, they will even start to talk to you.

As for the rest of the country, I only know Mesapotamia but I found the people there invariably friendly and outgoing. As with most other non-porteños I have met here in BsAs.

I have to disagree with Spassmussein: it does not depend ON YOU. I was born and lived a good part of my life in New York, but spent a good chunk of the rest of it in 3 other places: South Carolina, Sao Paulo, and here. In New York and Sao Paulo, all I ever had was a good time, the people were friendly, human interactions were always an opportunity to talk and laugh, even just momentary encounters (I don't know how NYC is now! I'm talking 25 years ago on that! I often go back to SP just for the pleasure of being in the city (well, to go to Bomboa, too, but that's another thread). But in South Carolina, like here, you waste so much energy dealing with idiots. The south is actually worse than here, the people are downright obnoxious (I'm talking about the rednecks, not the blacks). Anyone remember years ago there was a tourist ad campaign for Jamaica that said, Jamaica, No Problem? I always thought South Carolina should have an ad campaign, SC: Everything's a Problem. I remain the same in all places, so I have to conclude it depends ON THEM.

The problem with porteños is that their ego keeps writing checks that the rest of their being ain't cashing.

My parting comment: have you ever seen people more poorly dressed in any major city you have been in? Ever seen so many shabby, ill-fitting suits on men as you do walking through the microcentro? Ever see a well dressed woman in this town? The young people are a disgrace. The kids in Sao Paulo really know how to dress, here it is embarrassing. I live by a couple of nightclubs and I see them and wince. The other night I saw two guys and I said to myself, finally somebody here knows how to dress! But I ended up talking with them after I saw they were being asked for autographs: they were English rockers here on tour!

One more thing, about the money! Has anybody ever encountered anyone anywhere you can trust when it comes to money?

[Gandolf50]

I guess it depends where you are and who you talk to. I've been here 11 years off and on but out in the "provincia" not in the capital. In the capital where I believe live "Los Portenos" you are talking about I have found more people better educated (then here in the boondocks) and generally pleasant to be around. Out here in the boonies there are few pleasant people. Most are looking at you trying to figure how to rob you or take advantage of you.

[Nikki]

Porteños are the local equivalent to New Yorkers. The rest of the country does not like us, just like in the rest of the US they do not like people from NYC. The difference is that in the US people are more politically correct. Also, you do not trust porteños, why should they trust you?

This comment "when they have nothing to be arrogant about" that you make, is arrogant.

Unfortunately, you are not being xenophobic. You are being truthful.

To paraphrase an old cliche, BA would be a great city if it were not for the Portenos. I do not know why, but all of Latin America south of the Rio Grande views a loan, especially a personal loan, as another form of gift. I have met a few Portenos that I liked, but none that I trusted. I think arrogance has become part of the Porteno DNA, because I have met Portenos who left and have lived in the USA or Canada for many years who are still arrogant, when they have nothing to be arrogant about. The Porteno motto should be: "We lie most of the time because the truth is such a valuable commodity that it cannot be used too often.

That being said, there are still beautiful chicas here who love to fuck, and the steak is good. The government is a basket case, but if one has dollars, bad government is a friend. My dos centavos worth.

Tres3.

[Nikki]

This whole "the pope is Argentino" thing is both hilarious and sad in equal measure. The way it's the new thing to say whenever anyone criticizes anything about Argentina is just so odd!

"This government is terrible".

"So what...the pope is Argentino, or maybe you didn't know that!

"The violence and the way football is controlled by the barra bravas has ruined the game here.

"Maybe, but didn't you know. The pope is Argentino!

"Porteños are rubbish.

"How dare you say that. The pope is Porteño!

I don't know whether to laugh or feel sorry for the poor things! Don't they know that NOBODY else in the world gives a sh1 t, let alone thinks it's in the slightest bit important? And how delusional do you have to be to think it reflects well on the country because one individual has risen to the heights of The Führer?

I believe maybe these people are actually trying to tell you that despite lots of things being f* up here, there are still good things going on. The use the government and the Pope as the most obvious examples. It has nothing to do with religion, the Fuhrer, or whatever.

You most likely know by now how complaining about things is a national sport, but people do not like to complain 24/7 and find it offensive if a foreigner complains 24/7 about his host country. This is just a thought.