American Tourist Shot While Exchanging Dollars

[AllIWantIsLove]

I've also heard that home invasions are up in Recoleta, close to the slum, <snip> .

Where is the slum in Recoleta? It sure varies a lot but I have not found myself in an area which I would call a slum. But then I am sure there are areas of Recoleta which I have not yet seen.

Thanks, Bob

[Toymann]

The coin shop I elude to is roughly 30 meters from the McDonalds in the Recoleta Center on the corner of Junin and Vicente Lopez. Are you all suggesting that this is a high risk location? It is located almost exactly half way between Vicente Lopez and Las Heras across from the newly renovated mall. Is this a high risk location? It is in fact two doors down the street from Jackson's old rentall apartment building (1655 Junin). The door is always locked and you have to buzz at the door to enter, the shop keeper then meets you at the door, checks you out and then let's you in. Once in the shop if you ask for cambio you are escorted into the back room and proceed with your transaction. After you are done you are let out in the same manner. Maybe I am missing something here but having stayed on this block or very nearby for years now I never felt this was a high risk location. There almost always is cop on the corner near the macdonalds in the evening, if that is relevant, roughly 30 meters away. I understand that "shit happens", in the big city but I was totally unaware that this was such a high risk area. As the crow flies Newport is just on the other side of Vicente Lopez. Please advise as I am a tad surprised that you all would consider this location as high risk? I certainly have never felt that way as I walked the area from Newport to Madahos. Maybe I have missed something? Confused Toymann.

Ps. In fact, I think the recoleta police station is right around the corner on las heras, assuming that has any impact on risk?

[Aqualung]

I deal with mostly tourists and sad to say I know of many incidents on FL ST. (Even an American Airlines Pilot has been hit on FL ST. I don't see much reason to go there anyway.

One reason to go there is because they tourists love to see the street. The same as La Boca, San telmo and many other attractions. Otherwise they might just as well stay home. The chance of being pickpocketed in any place is high. On Florida the chance of being shot is very low. The chance of being pickpocketed in Recoleta is not quite so high but the chance of being injured is much higher. Around the Alvear hotel it's quite bad. Guys on motorbikes snatch at watches, cameras or anything they can get their hands on as they can escape easy along Libertador or 9 de Julio to the South. The list of tourists injured by being thrown down in the middle of the road while trying to hang on to their possessions is quite high. Two months ago a Mexican tourist was killed when she was dragged under a bus while she tried to hang on to her handbag almost on the corner of Las Heras and Junin at about 9:30am.

Last year I'm not sure if it was an American Airline Pilot or United had his pocket picked at Ezeiza airport so pilots aren't much of a reference.

[Silver Star]

I've also heard that home invasions are up in Recoleta, close to the slum, and the neighborhood in which the "coin shop" mentioned was located (unless Toyman is talking about yet another coin shop).

I live a couple of blocks away from Florida and at least 3-4 times a week I find myself walking along the street for one reason or another. I've never seen anything there I haven't seen in other places.

I don't agree that it is a place to avoid (except it IS a bit a tourist trap for those searching for bargains on leather and other goods!) , but agree that no one should be going out dressed to stick out like a sore thumb anywhere. I know of no one who has ever been robbed or assaulted on Florida but I do know people who have been assaulted in places like Recoleta where a lot of people seem to assume because it's affluent, it's relatively safe. Not saying it doesn't happen on Florida at all, but I think you're no more likely to have problems there as you are in Recoleta, at the very least.

I deal with mostly tourists and sad to say I know of many incidents on FL ST. (Even an American Airlines Pilot has been hit on FL ST. I don't see much reason to go there anyway.

[Aqualung]

You are more probably going to be robed on a busy street than on a quiet side street. Crooks won't spend half a day on a quiet street waiting for a victim to turn up. Also they are much more visible hanging around. On busy streets like Florida they mingle in easy.

It's not common for someone to be shot on Florida for resisting. Stabbing is much more usual. The difference between being stabbed on a quiet side street than on Florida is that at the quiet place you will probably bleed to death waiting for someone to help you while on Florida it's more possible a good Samaritan will come by.

Places like the coin shop are extremely vulnerable and there you are more likely to be shot than stabbed.

Being nearer to slums doesn't necessarily make an area more dangerous. The highest percentage of hits in Recoleta area are by crooks coming from the West part of town. Ciudadela's Fuerte Apache being the number one origin. The hits on Florida or San Martin are mostly by crooks from South. Avellaneda etc as they have a quick exit along Huergo or Paseo Colon.

Some crooks specialize in banks, casas de cambio or cuevas (not cuerva. That means a female crow). They usually have better logistics, are bigger gangs and have greater firing power. Others specialize in clients. These are usually only two and use motorbikes to escape. (motochorros). The most common is that they are armed with knifes but if they use firearms only one carries.

The two idiots in this case were what is called parachuters. They drop in without any prior intelligence. Even these idiots could tell what was going on at the place and they made a quick decision.

Both Clarin and La Nacion are in the same position where the government is involved. The difference in the story is just what information each reporter got before printing. For neither papers it's an important story. If they wished to they could report on hundreds of similar cases every day. The only unusual part to this story is that it was a tourist that got shot in the arse.

There are hardly any official statistics about robberies or murders during robberies but I assure you they are much higher than what you read in any newspaper. I know what I'm talking about.

[TejanoLibre]

You hit the nail on the head with this one, dude. The guys who do cambio business on Florida and on Lavalle are much more likely to police idiots who are robbing potential customers than to let them to continue to exist. And that probably even goes for places that would try to cheat people by giving them counterfeits and such. Something like that would destroy their business.

And before everyone starts thinking "yeah, but those are tourist places, what Argentino would care if it were tourists being robbed". Think again. Although the Argentine sentiment and lack of concern about who was being robbed might be accurate, the fact is, I doubt MOST customers of the cuevas and arbolitos are tourists. Maybe half and half at best. I have a specific location that I go to on Florida, that I've become comfortable with, and have actually struck up a fairly good relationship with the front man who works for them (there's also a cute chica that's in the cueva itself when we got to change money who seems fascinated by the fact that I'm American. She always strikes up conversation about politics and such in the States and hates the Kirchners here!). MANY Argentinos come to change money at these places. It's easy access. It's well-known. Florida is a safe street (as safe as any can be here).

Not only does he tell me about their clients, but he's introduced me to both all sorts of Argentinos who have come up looking for change while I'm sitting there talking to him. While we're talking, he doesn't mumble "cambio" (and therefore I've never had a tourist approach us while talking to him) but still often times Argentinos come up asking him to make change, knowing him for what he is.

There are a lot of people who come here and don't understand where some of the dangers are. I know guys who will not walk down certain streets in certain parts of town because they consider it dangerous (a bit of a shabby area, for example, but a place that's not any more dangerous than other places) , but who think nothing of being decently dressed and wearing a decent (whether fake or not) watch on their wrists in places they think are safe. Two of the guys I know who do that have been robbed in plain daylight while walking along streets like Las Heras and Callao.

I have been using the same guy at Florida and Lavalle for years, it's a travel agency underground, and have never had a problem. I take guys there all the time and introduce them to the Money Man. If your new to BA and your worried you can send me a PM and I'll take you there.

Thanks,

TL

[El Queso]

This makes the most sense to me. Those guys out front work for the cuerva and it wouldn't do to have their own store robbed (not impossible that they would clue a friend in as to the best time to rob it, this is BsAs after all). As far as the guy buying dollars specifically being robbed I would rate that as low, why take a nickle from a customer when you can steal a hundred from the bank. Again though this thought suggests logical thinking and anything is possible here.

You hit the nail on the head with this one, dude. The guys who do cambio business on Florida and on Lavalle are much more likely to police idiots who are robbing potential customers than to let them to continue to exist. And that probably even goes for places that would try to cheat people by giving them counterfeits and such. Something like that would destroy their business.

And before everyone starts thinking "yeah, but those are tourist places, what Argentino would care if it were tourists being robbed". Think again. Although the Argentine sentiment and lack of concern about who was being robbed might be accurate, the fact is, I doubt MOST customers of the cuevas and arbolitos are tourists. Maybe half and half at best. I have a specific location that I go to on Florida, that I've become comfortable with, and have actually struck up a fairly good relationship with the front man who works for them (there's also a cute chica that's in the cueva itself when we got to change money who seems fascinated by the fact that I'm American. She always strikes up conversation about politics and such in the States and hates the Kirchners here!). MANY Argentinos come to change money at these places. It's easy access. It's well-known. Florida is a safe street (as safe as any can be here).

Not only does he tell me about their clients, but he's introduced me to both all sorts of Argentinos who have come up looking for change while I'm sitting there talking to him. While we're talking, he doesn't mumble "cambio" (and therefore I've never had a tourist approach us while talking to him) but still often times Argentinos come up asking him to make change, knowing him for what he is.

There are a lot of people who come here and don't understand where some of the dangers are. I know guys who will not walk down certain streets in certain parts of town because they consider it dangerous (a bit of a shabby area, for example, but a place that's not any more dangerous than other places) , but who think nothing of being decently dressed and wearing a decent (whether fake or not) watch on their wrists in places they think are safe. Two of the guys I know who do that have been robbed in plain daylight while walking along streets like Las Heras and Callao.

[El Queso]

I'm a chauffeur here who handles mostly tourists, and am hearing that the crime on Florida ST is worsening and becoming more violent, I advise my guests who would stick out as a sore thumb (tourist) to avoid if possible.

I've also heard that home invasions are up in Recoleta, close to the slum, and the neighborhood in which the "coin shop" mentioned was located (unless Toyman is talking about yet another coin shop).

I live a couple of blocks away from Florida and at least 3-4 times a week I find myself walking along the street for one reason or another. I've never seen anything there I haven't seen in other places.

I don't agree that it is a place to avoid (except it IS a bit a tourist trap for those searching for bargains on leather and other goods!) , but agree that no one should be going out dressed to stick out like a sore thumb anywhere. I know of no one who has ever been robbed or assaulted on Florida but I do know people who have been assaulted in places like Recoleta where a lot of people seem to assume because it's affluent, it's relatively safe. Not saying it doesn't happen on Florida at all, but I think you're no more likely to have problems there as you are in Recoleta, at the very least.

[El Queso]

This wasn't the street. It was 5 floors up in a building. Yes, the two guys were taken from the street by the cueva's front man, but they were taken to a cueva, which is exactly what your "coin shop" is. But the coin shop has an entrance right on the street. If it gets targeted, it's as easy, if not easier, to get into. The whole point is that the robbers knew where money was available to be robbed. If you think your "coin shop" is not fairly widely known as a cueva, I'm thinking you're mistaken. Not very likely that a bunch of foreigners have somehow managed to stumble onto a place that no one else knows about!

If this HAD been a case where these guys met some guy on the street, the guy took them to an apartment and robbed them, then I think it would be a different story. But the whole point I was making is that this is a cueva that was robbed, not some "innocent" tourists that were fooled into doing something stupid. Which I have heard warnings about related to Florida since I got here more than 6 years ago and which I have never heard of actually happening. This particular incident was not that, it was an unfortunate set of circumstances that could happen to anyone (and in fact happened to 6 other Argentinos who were in the cueva when it got hit, as well) who lives or visits here.

In fact, remember that the coin shop you mention is close to the biggest slum in Argentina, and a dangerous one. In fact, it is much closer than Florida street to the slum. I really think it is a bit more dangerous in some ways. It's a coin shop for christ's sake. They're advertising, to an extent, that they have money there, even if somehow it's not known as a cueva. Even if the thief just waits for someone to leave so they can take whatever off of them. The place on Florida street was camouflaged as a leather shop.

[Silver Star]

An American tourist was shot on Florida street yesterday in broad daylight while exchanging currency, around the 500 block of Florida. Two men tried to rob him and he resisted so they shot him in the butt!

The bad guys were arrested on Maipu and the American was taken to the hospital.

I guess he should have read this board or called one of us to help him out!

TL.

Todays rate : 6. 4 to 1

The article states that they were trying to buy dollars but I doubt it, I'm sure they were trying to buy pesos.

I'm a chauffeur here who handles mostly tourists, and am hearing that the crime on Florida ST is worsening and becoming more violent, I advise my guests who would stick out as a sore thumb (tourist) to avoid if possible.

[Toymann]

Good info. I exchanged on Florida the day I arrived, it went fine, but I didn´t feel 100% comfortable. I'm sure most of these guys are safe and reputable, but you never know what you're getting into when talking with a stranger on the street.

As has been mentioned on this board, this location is very secure. Back room of the coin shop modeled to look like a bank teller window. Very secure from my perspective. Sure beats the street. My dos centavos. Toymann

[Esten]

Good info. I exchanged on Florida the day I arrived, it went fine, but I didn´t feel 100% comfortable. I'm sure most of these guys are safe and reputable, but you never know what you're getting into when talking with a stranger on the street.

[Daddy Rulz]

Clarin says that the robbery was already in progress when the tourists were brought up there by a guy in the street (the "front" for the cueva) , and walked into the situation. There were six other people in the cueva aside from the thieves who were already being robbed. The tourists tried to fight when they were going to be robbed as well.

This makes the most sense to me. Those guys out front work for the cuerva and it wouldn't do to have their own store robbed (not impossible that they would clue a friend in as to the best time to rob it, this is BsAs after all). As far as the guy buying dollars specifically being robbed I would rate that as low, why take a nickle from a customer when you can steal a hundred from the bank. Again though this thought suggests logical thinking and anything is possible here.

[El Queso]

http://www.clarin.com/inseguridad/As...815918525.html

This is a slightly more detailed version of what happened.

La Nacion makes a statement at the end of their article that investigators were trying to determine if the thieves sent the tourists to the cueva or if they had some other prior knowledge of what the tourists were going to do, intimating that the only intent of the thieves was to rob the tourists because they knew they were going to change money and the tourists were set up. It seems to say "watch out, here's another way you could end up in problems changing money. Look what happened here."

In fact, that was my first reaction. I've been going down to change money on Florida for 6 years and have never found it even slightly ominous, nor have I ever been cheated or robbed. After reading this I thought "damn man, you never know. One of these guys COULD be sending me to get robbed!"

That La Nacion article is missing quite a bit of information it seems.

Clarin says that the robbery was already in progress when the tourists were brought up there by a guy in the street (the "front" for the cueva) , and walked into the situation. There were six other people in the cueva aside from the thieves who were already being robbed. The tourists tried to fight when they were going to be robbed as well.

La Nacion also says that while the tourists were being taken to the hospital, cops who were patrolling saw the criminals trying to escape to the street and arrested them. They make it sound almost by accident that they were caught.

Clarin says that the owner of the cueva managed to escape down the stairs while the fight was happening and started yelling that there was a robbery and someone was wounded. Another owner in the building called the police. The cops arrived quickly, removed store owners and patrons and shut the galeria down. The criminals were at that point trying to leave via stairs, realized the police had the place shut down. They stopped at the first floor and entered an office (where there were more witnesses to the attempted escape) , broke a window and jumped out onto the street to escape. Hahahaha. The "fatter one" hit his head and messed up his face, the other one seems to have made a better jump, but was shocked by the landing and couldn't get moving quickly enough to continue his escape.

I suppose that La Nacion could have gotten their information in pieces and before everything was known. But I find it interesting that La Nacion, who I don't believe is in trouble with Cristina, offered a summary that seemed to say "see how dangerous it is to go down to Florida and change money. They know you're coming and will rob you" while the Clarin, who is in trouble with Cristina, offered a more expanded version that really said "you never know what you're going to get into in this city."

I commend the police for arriving so quickly on the scene, in time to make it difficult to impossible for the thieves to escape, and managing to arrest them.

[Member #3320]

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1529285-b...-calle-florida