ATM's

[Hunt99]

Some redundancies: "an added bonus", "to over-exaggerate", "and plus", "and etc.", "end result", "free gift", "future plans", "hot water heater", "unconfirmed rumor", "killed him dead", "past history", "criminal banking"

Some more oxymorons:

Democratic Socialism.

Political Integrity.

Lawyer Ethics.

Military Intelligence

[MCSE]

Criminal Banking

Some redundancies: "an added bonus", "to over-exaggerate", "and plus", "and etc.", "end result", "free gift", "future plans", "hot water heater", "unconfirmed rumor", "killed him dead", "past history", "criminal banking"

[Thomaso276]

Went to Citi today for a withdrawal. The law quoted on the screen before you receive the money is Criminal Banking law 4349 and you push a button to confirm you are in compliance. Apparently it is an electronic confirmation just as if you signed for money from a change house or the bank itself when changing dollars.

As well, there is apparently a 10g dollar limit monthly that you can "change" or pull.

Here is a link and text for the form, agreement. Apparently each bank has their own compliance statement that you could sign if you were doing this manually.

http://www.bancopatagonia.com/empresas/pdf/DDJJ4349.pdf

COMUNICACIÓN "A" 434912/05/2005

A LAS ENTIDADES FINANCIERAS.

Ref.: Circular.

CAMEX 1 - 519

Mercado Único why Libre de Cambios.

Formación de activos externos de residentes.

Nos dirigimos a Uds. A los efectos de comunicarles que se ha dispuesto lo siguiente con vigencia a partir del próximo 13 de junio inclusive:

1. Las personas físicas why jurídicas residentes en el país no comprendidas en el sector financiero, podrán acceder al Mercado Único why Libre de Cambios para la formación de activos externos de acuerdo a las normas why límites dados a conocer por Comunicación "A" 3722 why complementarias, en la medida que en la fecha de acceso al mercado de cambios, no registren deudas vencidas impagas con el exterior por servicios de capital e intereses de deudas de todo tipo.

2. Las entidades financieras deberán previamente a otorgar el acceso al mercado de cambios por los conceptos comprendidos en la Comunicación "A" 3722 why complementarias, contar con una declaración jurada del cliente en la que deberá constar que a la fecha de acceso al mercado de cambios, el cliente:

A. Ha dado cumplimiento, de corresponder, a las presentaciones con vencimientos operados del régimen de declaración de deuda externa de la Comunicación "A" 3602 why complementarias,.

Be. No registra deudas vencidas e impagas con el exterior.

3. A los efectos de los requisitos establecidos en la presente norma, las obligaciones con el exterior sin vencimiento, se considerarán como deuda vencida a partir de los 180 días corridos de la fecha en que fueron contraídas.

4. Lo dispuesto en la presente, no será de aplicación para las compras de billetes why cheques de viajero por montos que no superen el equivalente de US$ 10.000 por mes calendario.

Saludamos a Uds. Atentamente.

BANCO CENTRAL DE LA REPÚBLICA ARGENTINA.

Jorge L. RodríguezGerente Principal de Exteriory Cambios A / CRaúl O. PlanesSubgerente Generalde Operaciones

[MCSE]

I have been in countries where the banks reduce the maximum over weekends and holidays so that the machine does not run out of money. Is it possible that is happening here?

Some times you want to withdawl money in a hollyday and it's hard to find a loaded ATM. However, it's possible that every bank set a maximum amount per operation. They make a buck each time you use the service, the more you use the service, the more bucks they make.

[Dodger Bulldog]

Over the past ten days I have been able to take out 600 pesos every single time, while using several different machines.

However, my friend was limited to 300 last night (Saturday)

I have been in countries where the banks reduce the maximum over weekends and holidays so that the machine does not run out of money. Is it possible that is happening here?

I always make sure that by Friday afternoon I have enough to see me through the weekend.

DB

[Bacchus9]

Time to pay the bloody rent and accessing cash out of the ATM. I use only the ATM machines that are full fledged Citibank - no Banelco. My US account is Citibank and they're now nicking 2% on a withdrawal to help them pay off those failed mortgage papers they perpetrated. The inititation of the 2% on international withdrawls was timed to their humbling trip to Dubai for 16 bil.

Have always been able to pull 3,000 pesos in one go from the Citi ATM at Callao / Alvear (U$1,000/ day limit) but now it's only 2,950 p which I ascribe to the weakened US dollar.

Does anyone have experience with maximum withdrawals using other than Citibank cards on Citbank's ATMs here?

[El Aleman]

Last time I was in Argentina (February) I did not run into any trouble using my European ATM card (belongs to the Maestro / Cirrus network) the only limit was that imposed by my bank, 1000 Euro which allowed 4000 pesos.

These days, I run into a limit somewhere around A$R 300,-, and that renders ATM's close to useless, as I do pay a transaction fee. The only bank where I finally succeeded was City.

In addition to the reasons stated in the article that was quoted below, I have 2 theories:

A) It is a plot of the Aegentine cash networks (Banelco and Link) to get more money from us "rich" foreigners through transaction fees.

B) It's the "casas de cambio" who saw their business go, as more and more people did not use their service anymore, but just pulled money from an ATM.

What everybody should do is complain art their bank at home. These things will change only if pressure to Banelco and Link comes from the international cash networks like Cirrus, where the Argentines are members. And these organistions are not interested in tourists stopping to use their services and taking cash along because the total fees became prohibitive. Also, many Argentine banks seem to be owned al least partially, by foreign banks - HSBC, Santander, BBVA, Galicia, Itau, etc. Etc. All are not originally Argentine.

[Dickhead]

That article is a crock of shit. I withdrew 600 and then 590 pesos on 2 July. In fact we recently experimented with maximum withdrawals and in the two places we tried it, the limit per withdrawal appeared to be 600, although it could be between 600 and 690. I could not withdraw 690 and could withdraw 590 and 600, at any rate. The limit was 320 for a while, as has been discussed to death.

However, I do not pay transaction fees, and this is a valid point, ¨What incentive do any of the (Argentine) banks have to take any additional risk by dispensing more money to non-customers?

Me parece que esta gringa es media boluda.

[Stormy]

With Citi, at the Citi ATMS in BA, I have always been able to withdraw up to 2500 pesos in one day. Previously I was not charged a foreign transaction fee, but now I am, I think it is about 2 per cent. I do have a Citi account. but that makes
no difference for the fees part, apparently. In May and June I was still withdrawing 1000 pesos or 2000 without problem.

[Thomaso276]

Anyone know anything about this law from the article limiting to 500 pesos?

When I pull from Citi there is always a disclaimer on the screen that I am in compliance with a law regarding how much I can take. But the disclaimer does not say what the amount is?

Next time I will write down the info from the screen and post here.

[Bodhi]

Greetings,

Last time I made an ATM withdrawal, about 2 weeks ago, at Banco de Cordoba with Visa Plus Debit card, the one time / one fee limit on withdrawal was $650 pesos.

Please see article below from www.escapeartist.com

Best,

Bodhi.

------------

Argentina's Cash Machine Daily Withdrawal Limits Money Out By Lauren Sanne.

¨The amount you are requesting is over the extraction maximum. Do you want to make another transaction?¨

Does this message look familiar? If so, you are probably a foreigner.

Unfortunately, over the past year, a conspiracy against foreigners seems to have been developing in Argentina. The Argentine banks have started to fix limits on the amount of money foreigners are able to withdraw. And these aren't just normal fixed limits; these are LOW fixed limits. The current limit per withdrawal in Argentina is set at about $300 pesos (roughly $100 US dollars) Although that will get you much further in Argentina than in The States, it is hardly enough to cover average tourist expenses. Some ATMs do allow you to withdraw the limit of $300 pesos three times in one day, which will fill your pockets up to $900 pesos. However, that means that you will still be charged the withdrawal fee THREE separate times. This rule applies strictly to foreigners; Argentine citizens have a much greater withdrawal limit that is determined by their specific banks.

Why this punishment for innocent foreigners who just want to travel and SPEND their money in beautiful Argentina? Chile and Brazil do not have this law. In fact, I have never heard of another country that has imposed this rule. Who is responsible for this? Why Argentina, and why now?

"The responsible parties are the global bank networks in Argentina that control all ATM and bank transactions country-wide".

After doing some digging, it turns out that the culprit here is not the banks back in our home countries nor is it the local banks here in Argentina. The responsible parties are the global bank networks in Argentina that control all ATM and bank transactions country-wide. All banks and credit card companies worldwide belong to one of these networks; the two main ones in Argentina are Banelco and Link which work with the bigger companies Cirrus and VisaPlus.

There are several theories as to why they have recently changed the rules for ATM withdrawals in Argentina:-

Theory No. 1 No Money.

This claims that Argentine banks do not have enough money to fund average foreign withdrawal budgets. Apparently foreign bank limits are much higher than in Argentina, so their withdrawals depleted local ATMs. Argentine banks have a reputation for bad service for ATMs refilling, so they chose to set a low limit to foreign accounts. This does not make a ton of sense since Argentine people still have a much greater withdrawal limit than foreigners.

Theory No. 2 Disinterest.

Perhaps Argentine banks have no reason to be flexible or accommodating for foreign travellers because they are not their main customers and there are no negative consequences to the bank when there are complications with foreign customers. As one bank representative in the US said, ¨What incentive do any of the (Argentine) banks have to take any additional risk by dispensing more money to non-customers?

When traveling internationally there is little recourse using international authorities if there ever was a case of fraud.¨ Is it possible that Argentina does not care enough to help out foreigners? But why would they go to the trouble of changing the limits in the first place? I would like to think they are not JUST deliberately trying to make our lives more difficult.

Theory No. 3 Crime Prevention.

Argentine banks actually have our wellbeing in mind and are trying to protect the foreign traveler and by increasing security measures. They claim that there has been a lot of fraud and robbery in Argentina and to better protect the foreign traveller, they limit the amount one can withdraw so that if they are robbed it is less of a loss to the traveler. ¨The law is in place to increase the security of the foreigner," says a bank official of Citibank in Mendoza. How would an Argentine know how much a foreigner is withdrawing from an ATM? Will this really deter thieves from robbing foreigners or stop the trend of foreigners being robbed by locals in South America? This is a possibility. But this gringa is not convinced.

NB: In April 2008, legislation was passed to limit the amount of cash foreigners could withdraw. As of June 2008 the limit is 500 pesos (that's about 163 US dollars or 84 GB pounds) in any one transaction. However, if you leave your card in the machine, you can withdraw three lots of 500 pesos in a day. But of course you will be charged three separate transaction fees!

[Sidhartha]

I have a non-Visa / MC ATM card (no one takes their 1 percent) and have had no issues with limits up toi 600 pesos. Haven't tried higher amounts.

The only problem was finding a machine that accepted it. The banks on Florida - I tried a couple including Citi - would not take it. But I had no problem with Citi on Callao / Alvear and another Banelco ATM a little up Callao toward Quintana.

For those who don't know - I use a Capital 1 Visa, and Capital 1 Savings account ATM card, when traveling. They are the best values out there.

[Tessan]

I received an email today from the local US Embassy (if you get on their email list, you will get one here and there) They have been investigating (or so they say) the ATM withdrawl issue due to the high number of expat complaints. In one breath they report that they have been unable to determine the cause for the 300p limit. In their next statement they report that VISA and MASTERCARD have recently raised the limit to 600p. Uh, am I missing something or were the culprits just identified?

Looks like they raised the limit to 600p from 300p. I am able to pull it at banks where I could only get 300p before.

The lady at HSBC told me a few months ago, it was visa that was limiting the amount I could pull in one shot. I do not think she is right. The reason I don't think she is right, is that at Citibank you can pull more. I was able to pull 1500p, a while back. Citicards are MasterCard, so it should be limited if MasterCard is limiting it. My guess is that it's the people who run the ATM that 95% of the banks use, the one that has the big read BANCO on the screen when you go in. HSBC uses it, so does almost all the banks. Citibank probably uses their own ATM, it looks different, and so they set their own limits. Someone told me he could pull 2000p per transaction from the Citibank ATM. I have not check the Citibank in a while, since I pay no fee per transaction, my bank pays the fee for me, if I keep a high enough balance. I just go to the closes bank, and do more the one transaction.

The people who own that atm system, almost have a monopoly, so they can screw people into doing multiple transactions, and make several times the money they would have made. Even if a few people boycott them, they still make more money on the multiple pulls tourist and other people who doe not know better make. They control 95% of the atm in BA, only Citibank that I know of, does not use them. Anyone know of another bank, that uses a different atm network?

I think Citibank charges a 1% transaction fee.

This quote is from 4-7-08. The exchange rate was better then i was getting, at that time. But if you take 1% off, then i was getting a better rate. Think i was getting 3.145, then with no fees.

Went to Citi today on Santa Fe and pulled 1000p as a test for a Smith Barney FMA Mastercard. Lots of options came up on the screen (like 2500 pesos) I got 3.16 rate but will check my account tommorrow to see if they took a fee. They had told me they charge 1% for int'l charges. Alot better than 3% from HSBC.

The 3% is such a rip because it is HSBC account and local branch (sort of with Arg banking BS) and because they sell themselves as an international bank!

Think about it; at 3000 dollars monthly 3% will cost you over 1000 bucks a year. As it is, if I change my personal financial system it still cost me 360 bucks a year.

[Thomaso276]

Sid: what was the exchange rate for this HSBC pull?

[El Perro]

I received an email today from the local US Embassy (if you get on their email list, you will get one here and there) They have been investigating (or so they say) the ATM withdrawl issue due to the high number of expat complaints. In one breath they report that they have been unable to determine the cause for the 300p limit. In their next statement they report that VISA and MASTERCARD have recently raised the limit to 600p. Uh, am I missing something or were the culprits just identified?