Thread: Am I a resident
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10-16-07 21:16 #12
Posts: 131For those of you who didn't pay attention to what I said, maybe it will help if I repeat this part of what I wrote:
Originally Posted by Lexton
1. You own Argentine property and try to sell it.
2. You bring a lot of money into the country to buy something and have to reveal the source.
3. You apply for an empresario or rentista visa and have to reveal financial means.
In these situations, you are likely to bring significant assets into the country, and they have all the information they need to do the tax audit. And I would assume they have the ability to detain you in the country in uncomfortable ways until you settle up.
Will they do this? Probably not AT THIS TIME. But one is creating a situation that can have an effect for several years. So if any of these kinds of actions might be in your future, check it out. It also might make a big difference if you happen to piss off the wrong people in some way.
Redondo is trying to talk like someone with significant assets at home. If he does, he needs to consider this. This is primarily a heads up for people who may not have thought too much about this. I still find it curious it has never been mentioned before on this board.
In all of my looking at entry / exit requirements, I have never seen any reference to a 180/ day year limit in Argentina. I have seen a limit of 180 days / year for Brazil.
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10-16-07 19:37 #11
Posts: 439Originally Posted by El Aleman
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10-16-07 18:26 #10
Posts: 312What I wrote
Is according to my knowledge of the legal situation, and of course applies to people who leave significant paper trails and assets the AFIP can put their thumbs on, like real estate.
It is well enough known that often enough reality differs from what the paper says (ever performed an ISO 9000 or similar audit? And the "fly under the radar" approach certainly works, at least if the radar is out of service (like in Ezeiza) or the operators drunk (like in Russia the day Micheal Rust landed his Cessna on the Red Square. It was the "Day of the Soviet Air Force")
There is, however, a paper trail you leave when entering and leaving the country, and these are the yellow immigration forms, and the fact that your passport is read electronically. I bet 10 to one that in Argentina nobody will ever come to the idea to mine this pile of data, but it would be possible.
The 180 days rule is usually not applied to tourists, but it got some importance when German tax authorities tracked the whereabouts of sports celebrities like Boris Becker or Michael Schumacher, who took their official residency in tax shelters like Monaco. I just say still be carefull, and have some evidence on hand that your real "center of personal and economic activities" is in the land where you want to have it.
Btw. One can go to Uruguay or Chile as often as he wants, if he stays more than 180 days of any given year in Argentina, as far as I know he breaks Argentine immigration law, even if nobody cares when you enter the 3rd time. Once they start the data mining, you might end up facing trouble trying to leave for the 3rd time.
2 centavos de.
El Aleman
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10-16-07 12:58 #9
Posts: 1543Taxes?
Aren't those what the little people pay? Insufferable fools!
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10-15-07 22:23 #8
Posts: 439Originally Posted by Lexton
I doubt it will happen though, but there could be some cases
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10-15-07 22:19 #7
Posts: 439Originally Posted by El Aleman
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10-15-07 21:31 #6
Posts: 2470Yes, exactly Dirk. If I was a property owner, I suppose I would keep out half an eye on this situation. However, to worry about any of this while here on a tourist visa is flat out silly. I don't care if you go back and forth to Uruguay, or wherever, an infinite number of times. My guess is Redondo's "fiscal advisor" either has no idea what he / she is talking about and / or is trying to drum up some business. I don't plan on buying property here, I don't have or want CUITs, CUILs, or any other "tracking" number. Hasn't hurt me in the least. A trip outside to renew the visa is easy, and every other time you can just head on down to immigration, pony up 100p and your good to go for another 90 days. My philosphy is to fly under the radar, and if the powers that be ever decide to get rigid about any of this, I'll just move on. Stay cool Redondo Tell your fiscal advisor to piss off.
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10-15-07 20:56 #5
Posts: 751Mongers-
Redondo's "worries" are so ridiculous and far-fetched that I cannot believe anyone is actually buying into this. First of all, people in Argentina on a tourist visa, no matter the length of time, are virtually invisible to the Argentine beauracracy, as without any identification numbers, bank accounts, or assets, they do not even have standing in Argentine court and therefore cannot be sued. This is the reason why many service providers (directv, fibertel, movistar, personal etc) will not sell their services to people without Argentine residence, because they cannot be sued in any court for breaking a contract. People who have bought real estate and therefore have a CUID (as opposed to a CUIL, which is the right to work, or a CUIT, which is the corporate tax number) can be hassled only for taxes not paid on the actual real estate that they have bought in Argentina. Furthermore, no effort to collect this will be made until one attempts to sells his property at any given time.
Bottom line here is that those interloping in Argentina on a tourist visa are as invisible and untaxable as Mexican migrant farm worker or a Russian prostitute in the USA.
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10-15-07 20:34 #4
Posts: 131Tax Residency in Argentina
Redondo, I saw a lot of references to this when I was researching Argentina taxes. Here is part of this post [post] 375332 [/post] where I talk about this problem in Argentina Tax Issues:
Originally Posted by Lexton
I mention this in respect of property owners, but from what I can tell it applies to anybody. The key, of course, is that you have to come to the attention of the authorities in a manner that exposes sufficient assets to go after. Property owners fit this category perfectly, but there may be other ways.
This would not be unusual at all. I would also bet that you can end up being taxed as a resident of two countries this way: The country with your primary residence and the country where you visit more than 180 days. In the US, this is certainly true of tax residency for states. In some states, you can make yorself a tax resident by DRIVING THRU too many times, as I understand it. This arrangement is very useful for high tax entities, because even if they give credit for tax paid to another entity, they get to collect their higher portion.
AS El Aleman notes, they have the ability to go after taxes on WORLDWIDE income and assets that they can discover if you make yourself a tax resident. So this can be HUGE.
If you are at all worried about this, check it out very carefully, then report back to us on your findings.
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10-15-07 17:36 #3
Posts: 312Yes, but.
If you are a resident Argentina wants to tax your worldwide income and assets, not just what you earn in Argentina. This might or might not be of advantage depending on the double taxation treaty between Argentina and your country. Check that, AND talk to tax consultants in BOTH countries.
Check this web site: http://www.minfin.nl/en/subjects,tax...-treaties.html I am sure there is also a version in Dutch.
Residency for tax purposes is usually defined as the country where you have the "center of your personal life and economic activities", and this is usually assumed if you live more than 183 days per year in that country.
2 untaxed centavos from.
El Alemán
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10-15-07 13:31 #2
Posts: 1543You should just pay the taxes you owe. Unlike the Netherlands, the taxes in Argentina are quite reasonable, only 75% on your first 2000 pesos of income, and 100% of the remainder.
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10-15-07 12:08 #1
Posts: 439Am I a resident
Today I had a talk with my fiscal advisor and he told me that Argentina might want to try to see me as a resident.
I have been living about 7-8 months a year for the last 3 years on a tourist visa (I travel about 2 times a year to Holland) and I rent different places on monthly leases.
He said that Argentina might want to see me as a resident and that they want to collect taxes.
I personally doubt they would or could but is this a real posibility? I of course only want to pay my taxes in Holland.
Any personal experience on this?