Argentina Residency

[Littletruths]

Gentlemen, Thank You all for the feedback!

So far I have contacted two immigration attorneys trough e-mail (the first two that appeared on a google search) and what I got out of them goes more or less like this, or at least that's what they said;

Obtaining the residence permit shouldn't be a big issue if the criminal records are relative to crimes that carry less than three-years sentences, the situation would still be looked into, but the chances of getting trough in that case are fairly good.

Things get far more complicated in case the records are relative to more serious offences (as sadly it is in my case) , and then the chances of getting trough are really minimal.

I'm still waiting to know whether being married to an Argentinian woman makes a difference or not, because for example that's how it it is in Spain, where when you apply for residence you should produce your criminal background as well, but not if you're married to a Spanish citizen.

The precious tip about "five-years check / FBI check" is sadly useless to me as I'm Italian and the system is different in Italy, we only have the "fedina penale" which is the criminal record bill and I doubt there is a way to go around this, but I will look into it.

By-the-way I could have my criminal record bill cleared in theory, but on top of a sort of fine that there is to pay for it then there is a five-years waiting time to get the whole procedure trough. Not too sure it is worth it.

I will keep the forum posted if I find out more, as the informations could be useful to someone else too.

Bless

[El Queso]

Gentlemen,

Does anybody know whether the appliant's criminal history (FBI check) MUST be immaculate in order to successfully apply for residence permit (and for naturalization?) in Argentina?

For example, if someone has got some criminal records dating ten years back, is this going to be a sure cause of rejection of the residence permit request?

Thanks for any input!

Bless

I too know someone who spent some time in prison in the States, years ago, and had no problems whatsoever with their residency here.

Personally, almost 30 years ago, I was arrested in Austin for stealing street signs (Longhorn Blvd. Perfect for the dorm room. Idiot!). Believe it or not, I was charged with a felony. I received deferred adjudication for my sentence, worked it off, and thought it had been expunged from my record as promised. I never had any problem at all with jobs, credit, etc, related to this indiscretion over the next 30 years.

Here they are only supposed to look at the last five years of the applicant's law enforcement report. I couldn't believe it when the old charge showed up on my FBI report. My lawyer told me that there may be some problems related to this, but all solvable. He said the possibility existed that someone in immigrations may tag my file to go before a judge and there was a chance that I would have to clear the judge with a $1000 peso gift certificate to Falabella or something similar.

At the end of the process, I had no problems whatsoever with this (but problems with other, more simple things!).

But I agree with the others. Find a lawyer and make sure. I wouldn't go through the residency process without someone who knew all the ropes anyway, criminal history or not. I watched my wife get her residency without a lawyer (she's from Paraguay and being Mercorsur, that should have been very easy but wasn't for various reasons) and helped her sister as well. It was not easy and full of a lot of wasted time and frustration. After that, we used a lawyer every time (various other family members coming from Paraguay and myself).

I know a good, honest, dependable lawyer if you want a reference (PM me). He charges a relatively reasonable rate. If you get quoted over $2000 USD to get the job done, I believe that's way too much. The last I knew, the lawyer I used was charging around $1000 USD clear up to getting the actual DNI, not just the residency process. Of course, none of the prices you will be quoted will include the fees from immigrations, fees to get translations, FBI report, etc.

[Wild Walleye]

I know a guy who married an Argentine within the last few years and now has permanent residency; he did time in the Texas prison system and still managed to obtain permanent residency. Send me a PM and I'll send you the guys email.

I could see a couple of your other friends (Holder, Obama, Jarret, etc) doing a little time, too.

[Wild Walleye]

Yeah, an argentinian immigraton attorney would probably know how it is; but I decided to informally ask on here since I see quite a few members here have gone trough the process, so I hoped someone would have a clue about it and be willing to share.

Sorry, I wasn't busting on you, I was trying to convey my opinion that you should really use a knowledgeable attorney for something like that. Although, you are correct that fishing in this pool is often productive. Just look at Damman's post and the potential to truncate the background to 5 years by going through a specific type of office.

Good luck.

[SnakeOilSales]

I know a guy who married an Argentine within the last few years and now has permanent residency; he did time in the Texas prison system and still managed to obtain permanent residency. Send me a PM and I'll send you the guys email.

[Littletruths]

Simple answer, something on the FBI report, yes. Lots of hoops and will probably need a lawyer. Not a deal breaker. If you apply outside Argentina, use the services of an Argentine Consulates to obtain residency, most accept local / state police reports going back five years, which is the requirement. *Apply in Argentina, you are stuck with the FBI report and everything shows up. These things can change for sure. Know people that have applied at a consulate and a five year report was accepted from local authorities. Things could or may have changed. YMMV.

Thank you very much, I really appreciate your input!

[Damman]

Simple answer, something on the FBI report, yes. Lots of hoops and will probably need a lawyer. Not a deal breaker. If you apply outside Argentina, use the services of an Argentine Consulates to obtain residency, most accept local / state police reports going back five years, which is the requirement. *Apply in Argentina, you are stuck with the FBI report and everything shows up. These things can change for sure. Know people that have applied at a consulate and a five year report was accepted from local authorities. Things could or may have changed. YMMV.

[Littletruths]

The FBI is a US agency. Oddly, most foreign countries take immigration and naturalization a little more seriously than the US. You should speak with an Argentine, immigration attorney.

Yeah, an argentinian immigraton attorney would probably know how it is; but I decided to informally ask on here since I see quite a few members here have gone trough the process, so I hoped someone would have a clue about it and be willing to share.

[Wild Walleye]

Gentlemen,

Does anybody know whether the appliant's criminal history (FBI check) MUST be immaculate in order to successfully apply for residence permit (and for naturalization?) in Argentina?

For example, if someone has got some criminal records dating ten years back, is this going to be a sure cause of rejection of the residence permit request?

Thanks for any input!

Bless

The FBI is a US agency. Oddly, most foreign countries take immigration and naturalization a little more seriously than the US. You should speak with an Argentine, immigration attorney.

[Littletruths]

Gentlemen,

Does anybody know whether the appliant's criminal history (FBI check) MUST be immaculate in order to successfully apply for residence permit (and for naturalization?) in Argentina?

For example, if someone has got some criminal records dating ten years back, is this going to be a sure cause of rejection of the residence permit request?

Thanks for any input!

Bless

[Trampa]

From discoverbuenosaires. Com:

http://www.discoverbuenosaires.com/a...ents-increased

What a shocker! Aren't some new residents going to get trapped when they show up for their second or third renewal, and are told that their former $2, 500 a month income no longer suffices? How are people coping?

I don't have experience with this but I doubt it's for existing cases and if that's the case become a perm - tourist

[Member #3320]

Hello guys,

Can someone confirm that indeed 6 months of stay is required in every 1 year of temporary residency as per the new rules set by Migraciones. Can anyone confirm that? I believe that was never the case before!

Please advise.

Thanks.

[After5]

From discoverbuenosaires. Com:

"Once again, Argentina has made a major change to their policies with little advance notice. The rentista visa, which is a popular option for expats wishing to live legally in Argentina, now has an income requirement of AR $8000 / month per person. This represents a 333% increase from the previous amount of AR $2400 / month. This law became effective on July 29,2010, by Disposition Nbr.1534/2010 of the DNM (in Spanish)."

http://www.discoverbuenosaires.com/a...ents-increased.

What a shocker! Aren't some new residents going to get trapped when they show up for their second or third renewal, and are told that their former $2,500 a month income no longer suffices? How are people coping?

[Facundo]

The Department of Immigration that issues Argentine Residency and The Registry of Persons that issues the DNI have simplified and streamlined the application process for Argentine Residency and the acquisition of the DNI.

Now, when a foreigner, who isn't a citizen of MERCOSUR and Associated countries, applies he still has to submit all the documents already mentioned and discussed in detail in previous postings. However, as in the past, the same day the documents are accepted, the person will be issued a letter (precaria) stating he has been approved for Argentine Residency and will be told to return in 30 days to retrieve his one year renewable letter of residency. At the same time the person applies for Argentine Residency he will be photographed and fingerprinted and will be given the DNI within 45 days (this will be mailed directly to his apartment) This much awaited streamlined approach has reduced the wait time by as much as one year in acquiring the DNI.

So now, within 45 days the person will have his Residency Letter and the DNI. The cost for the Residency is 600 pesos and the DNI is 45 pesos.

There are two critical changes in the application process:

1. All applicants must present The Certificado de Domicilio (certificate of address gotten at the local police station) When asked what is the purpose of the Certificado be sure to mention, "Migraciones".

2. All now must make an appointment before submitting the completed application. This can be done by phone or internet at the Department of Immigration site:

http://www.migraciones.gov.ar/ (click on "Solicite su Turno)

The appointment is given within a few days of calling or submitting your information online. Once you get to your appointment it's highly probable you won't wait more than a few minutes before you see a person who will take your application.

Suerte.

[Facundo]

Facundo, you're a little behind the times on the fine - it's 300 pesos for non-Mercosur residents and 150 pesos for Mercosur residents now.

Also, I understand what you say about not using someone to help one through the residency process, but I have to disagree with you somewhat.

One could always receive the precaria (temporary residency) the day that one applied for it - IF the application was accepted. Although getting the actual temporary residency papers (once approved) and then following on with the DNI is much quicker and easier than it was in the past, there are other issues to think about.

The biggest one is the people in immigration, which you still have to deal with. If the slightest thing is wrong with your documentation (for example, my name officially ends with an apostrophe, but it's not like that on my passport, and it is on my birth certificate) you will be rejected to fix it (depending on how different it is - I know someone else whose BC had their full name, but their passport had their first name, middle initial and last name and they had to go through hoops to get some agency in the States to say that they were the same person, etc. My wife had the same issue with her mother's name - on ONE DOCUMENT her name ended in "s" rather than "z" and she had to go back to Paraguay to get a statement saying they were the same person) The people in immigration do not review anything else. When they hit one problem, they tell you about it and send you on your way. When you come back the next time and there is another little issue - you're stuck doing it all over again.

If you have everything perfect that you need, and there are no problems, sure, you don't need anyone to help you.

If there are any little problems, the lawyer can often talk the immigration person out of making it an issue (in the case of my apostrophe, for example) The lawyer I use brings gifts to the people there, has spent years cultivating "friendships" and helps one breeze through any minor problems that may be encountered.

On top of all of that - the wait time to get an appointment to file your papers is around 40 days right now. I know of someone who just got their appointment a couple of days ago. Also, it took him almost three weeks to even get someone to answer the phone to make the appointment (yes, it's true - maybe only because of the holidays? Every time your application is rejected, no matter for the tiniest reason, you have to go back and get another appointment - by yourself it could be 40 days.

I received my precaria on Dec. 30, the day before New Year's. I got the appointment to file it three DAYS before, in the middle of the holidaze! Why? Because I had a lawyer who knows the system and knew who to call to get in. It took me almost two months to get my FBI report, my birth certificate, everything apostilled, etc. He did it all for me and just charged the fees he was charged to get it done. He has contacts in the US to make all that happen (since I live here)

Also, many people who are applying for residency don't have a good reason to do so. They aren't married to a resident, they don't have investments or retirement income that bring in $750 US a month, they aren't going to school, they don't have 1.5 million pesos to buy government bonds (that latter went up froom 500K recently) It is very beneficial, for example, to talk to a lawyer to find out what you need to have to prove stable income (salaries don't count - it has to be some sort of investment income) if you are going for a rentista or retirement visa. If you haen't made the guy in immigrations happy with the papers you present by yourself, back to the drawing board.

The laws change often in immigrations, as well. Last year, we were getting residency for my wife's younger sister. She got the residency no problem - we had a letter of authorization for her to be with us from her parents which was fine for getting the precaria, but when we went to get the DNI in November, which is in a different department, we found out that that department had more stringent guidelines for getting the DNI and that authorization wasn't good enough - we had to have something else.

I will not deny that things have become more steamlined in migraciones. I have watched my wife get residency for herself, her brother and her sister and watched her go through hell over two years with them. The last couple of months things did run smoother, but she still had to deal with the people themselves.

This is Argentina. Just because the government streamlines things doesn't mean that it takes away all the problems associated with dealing with tramites.

If you have a lot of free time and feel adventurous, and speak enough Spanish to understand what is going on when you have problems with paperwork (or whatever) then I would agree that doing it yourself is fine.

Otherwise, you can save an unmeasurable amount of time, heartache and uncertainty by hiring someone to help you through the process. If you pay more than Seaman said below, you are being ripped off. It cost me significantly less because my residency is a spouse residency, my wife being a resident, and that makes it much easier.

With the right person helping you, they go down there with you, sit through the waiting (once you get your turn, you go to sit and wait for a number to be called) and do all the talking. You just sign the papers where they indicate and walk out with your paper in one session.

Queso my post and previous postings clearly state what one needs to do get his residency letter and DNI. I was clearly talking about people like yourself and others on this board who are Americans, Europeans, Australians, etc. Not people from Mercosur. The application as you know is different for non-Mercosur and Mercosur citizens. The later fall under Patria Grande and the majority of the applicants are poor people from Paraguay, Bolivia, and other Mercosur countries who have to show (lie) when they entered Argentina and then produce various documents certified by various agencies including the Consulado de Argentina.

I clearly stated to be careful about the name being the same in all the documents or it will be rejected. Also, I would think the majority of people who apply for residency at times return to their home country and over a one week period can easily have all the documents notarized and apostilled or have a relative or friend who can do it for them.

By the way, I'm willing to bet when you and your wife applied for the younger sister's DNI the authorities asked for a "tutela" or authorazation from a national judge stating she can stay in Argentina or that a national judge give your wife the authority to raise her in Argentina. Whatever they asked for I'm sure it was a document showing you have not taken the minor out the country illegally.

Queso, I'm sure if a person feels intimidated or uneasy about tackling the residency application one of these experts can help. However, I know of many people who have applied and found the process at times a little frustrating but not so frustrating they were willing to pay US$1,200 or up to US$5,000 for someone to hold their hand.

I don't believe it's helpful to discuss the Patria Grande application process with the application for residency and DNI for Europeans, Americans, etc. They are two totally different applications.

The cultural and corporate shift that's occurred is phenomenal. This change in Immigration and Registry of Persons is one of the best I've seen in my entire corporate life. It is consumer responsive (I don't see the same prejudices I saw before against the applicants); at times you need to redial the phone number maybe ten times to get a turn. Queso, you can now go on line and get an appointment to submit your papers.

This is just a personal observation I've made about these so called experts while in the field or in the trenches of the Department of Immigration. I've actually helped entire Paraguayan and Bolivian families process their Residency and DNI papers. I've been to just about every obra social used by The Department of Immigration from Boca to Lugano doing a lot of hand holding. The process now of course is concentrated at the two main sites; The Department of Immigration in Retiro and the one on Yrigoyen. I've seen my share of these experts work the room and at the end of the day they waited in line with the rest of the applicants. I've seen more than a few get embarrassed because they were told to go and get a number and wait in line with the rest of the folk.

Btw, thanks for the more recent information on overstaying the visa.

Jajoecha peve (Guarani for see you later)