American Politics during the Obama Presidency

[Esten]

Esten is using a tactic that's designed to attract low information voters to his side of the argument.

Leave it to an NRA apologist to call facts "tactics". It is a fact that the gun lobby used fear (of losing freedom) to mislead and manipulate the discussion on gun control legislation earlier this year.

The gun industry may profit from peoples fear, but Obama has been the source of that fear.

So when the gun lobby lied about the legislation creating a national gun registry, that was Obama's fault I suppose.

Esten is always writing about background checks but what he fails to mention is expanded background checks was just one amendment to the Democrats' gun control bill. There were several other amendments two of which had already passed before Harry Reid Pulled the bill: "One that would deter states from publishing lists of gun owners and a bipartisan plan to bolster federal funding for mental health efforts, including suicide prevention programs." Why didn't Harry Reid let the bill continue on?

Punter knows very well, Reid strategically voted against the legislation and pulled it when the background check amendment didn't get 60 votes, so he could bring it to the floor again in the future and get the background check legislation passed. More funding for mental health efforts is good, and would be supported along with expanding background checks. On it's own, it's pretty much a deflection to spare gun owners from having to do anything. Why spend taxpayer money on mental health funding, in the hopes of preventing crazy people from killing, but in the meantime still leave open loopholes that allow them to buy a gun without a background check? It doesn't make any sense.

I do not support banning some guns from everybody, but I do support banning all guns from criminals and the insane. The idea that keeping a madman from getting an AR15 but allowing him to have a shotgun is itself insane.

So why the continued resistance to expanding background checks, that 90% of Americans supported ?

[Punter 127]

A Sanity test might help.

WT I'm going to cut you some slack here because you actually hit on something that we have some agreement on, although I'm sure it was by accident on your part. In January Obama issued a list of executive actions (not the same thing as executive orders) directed at the problem of mass shootings by madmen. Much of the list had little if anything to do with mass shootings. But several of the listed actions call for the legitimate goal of trying to prevent dangerously mentally ill people from obtaining firearms. In response the USA Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) has called for public comments as part of their plan to revise federal law to improve reporting of people with the so-called "mental health prohibitor" of gun ownership.

Now here's the important part, the HHS Proposed Rule document notes, federal law already prohibits those persons from possessing or receiving a firearm who:

1) have been involuntarily committed to a mental institution.

2) have been found incompetent to stand trial or not guilty by reason of insanity.

3) otherwise have been determined, through a formal adjudication process, to have a severe mental condition that results in the individuals presenting a danger to themselves or others or being incapable of managing their own affairs.

I do not support banning some guns from everybody, but I do support banning all guns from criminals and the insane. The idea that keeping a madman from getting an AR15 but allowing him to have a shotgun is itself insane.


Now I'm off to the Gun Show, I'll report back.

[Punter 127]

Read my question again.

A Sanity test might help.

Funny, I don't remember seeing any proposed gun legislation calling for "Sanity" testing, maybe you could tell us who introduced that bill or a bill number?

I do remember a passed bipartisan plan to bolster federal funding for mental health efforts, including suicide prevention programs. But Harry Reid stepped on that.

[WorldTravel69]

A Sanity test might help.

Which of the gun control laws would have prevented this crime?


Gun control is best learned at the range.

[Punter 127]

According to Wikipedia there is no record that Lenin ever used that term. But I'm pretty sure the term has been used by at least a few wealthy gun company executives, who profit from the delusions of those who peg their individual freedom to the ability to buy a gun without a background check.

Esten, what drivel! From your post you leave the impression there are no background checks in place which you know is not the case.

Dealers have been doing background checks for years now. Just another liberal attempt to obscure / ignore the facts to further your own agenda.

As far as gun makers go, please continue to persecute them on the east and left coast. We would love to have them move to Texas, a non union at will state.

Doppelganger is absolutely correct, Esten is using a tactic that's designed to attract low information voters to his side of the argument.

Now he follows with this little jewel:

Gun industry profits from scaring people
The gun control issue has always been about freedom, for gun owners. They equate a significant sense of their freedom with their ability to own a gun.

The Senate vote earlier this year did not impede this freedom, it merely closed loopholes that allowed people to purchase a gun without a background check. Nevertheless, there was a big outcry from the gun lobby and many gun owners over this. The rallying cry was their freedoms were at stake.

In other words, with the help of the gun lobby, many gun owners saw the Senate vote to expand background checks as an attack on their freedom.

The gun industry may profit from peoples fear, but Obama has been the source of that fear. Esten is always writing about background checks but what he fails to mention is expanded background checks was just one amendment to the Democrats' gun control bill. There were several other amendments two of which had already passed before Harry Reid Pulled the bill: "One that would deter states from publishing lists of gun owners and a bipartisan plan to bolster federal funding for mental health efforts, including suicide prevention programs." Why didn't Harry Reid let the bill continue on?

Think about it the Democrats stopped an already passed bipartisan plan to bolster federal funding for mental health efforts, including suicide prevention programs. Does anybody think the people involved in mass shootings might have mental health problems? Apparently it's not very important to Democrats.

[Punter 127]

We Don't Need Gun Control!

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1433962

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MvQlN1MhmE

The wife was yelling Shoot Him.

Which of the gun control laws would have prevented this crime?


Gun control is best learned at the range.

[WorldTravel69]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1433962

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MvQlN1MhmE

The wife was yelling Shoot Him.

[Esten]

Esten, what drivel! From your post you leave the impression there are no background checks in place which you know is not the case.

Dealers have been doing background checks for years now. Just another liberal attempt to obscure / ignore the facts to further your own agenda.

The gun control issue has always been about freedom, for gun owners. They equate a significant sense of their freedom with their ability to own a gun.

The Senate vote earlier this year did not impede this freedom, it merely closed loopholes that allowed people to purchase a gun without a background check. Nevertheless, there was a big outcry from the gun lobby and many gun owners over this. The rallying cry was their freedoms were at stake.

In other words, with the help of the gun lobby, many gun owners saw the Senate vote to expand background checks as an attack on their freedom.

[Member #4112]

According to Wikipedia there is no record that Lenin ever used that term. But I'm pretty sure the term has been used by at least a few wealthy gun company executives, who profit from the delusions of those who peg their individual freedom to the ability to buy a gun without a background check.

Esten, what drivel! From your post you leave the impression there are no background checks in place which you know is not the case.

Dealers have been doing background checks for years now. Just another liberal attempt to obscure / ignore the facts to further your own agenda.

As far as gun makers go, please continue to persecute them on the east and left coast. We would love to have them move to Texas, a non union at will state.

[Esten]

If you have never heard the term "useful idiot" it was the attitude held by Vladimir Lenin towards communist sympathizers in the West (America).

According to Wikipedia there is no record that Lenin ever used that term. But I'm pretty sure the term has been used by at least a few wealthy gun company executives, who profit from the delusions of those who peg their individual freedom to the ability to buy a gun without a background check.

[Don B]

If you have never heard the term "useful idiot" it was the attitude held by Vladimir Lenin towards communist sympathizers in the West (America). While Lenin and the Soviets held them in utter contempt they also viewed them as tools for dispensing communist propaganda to other countries, thus infecting foreign cultures with their totalitarian tripe. After their mission was complete, they were no longer "useful.

It's a term the refers to brainwashed American Marxists who blindly support any ideology that gets themselves out of real work and causes others to pay their way.

It also refers to useful idiots who post inaccurate definitions of the term useful idiot on sites like the urban dictionary. While they believe that they are making some sort of statement, they are actually providing perfect examples of the term.

An American who espouses Marxist ideals is a useful idiot.

There are several in this forum.

Don B.

[Don B]

An interesting article about hospital charges.

http://www.sfgate.com/default/articl...te-4744836.php

Rights, you remember individual rights, a long lost concept thanks to the progressives.

http://www.drhurd.com/index.php/Dail...Insurance.html

Don B

[Gandolf50]

Watch the full preview of the movie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIZTMVNBjc4

To make a Iceberg, it needs to be cold. ALL icebergs float south and eventually melt. There would be smaller or no icebergs if the global warming theory was true.

[Punter 127]

CDC Gun Violence Study's Findings Not What Obama Wanted

Second Amendment: The White House asked the Centers for Disease Control "to research the causes and prevention of gun violence." We're pretty sure that what the CDC found wasn't what the White House was looking for.

The Democrats, and their media allies, obsess over some shootings while ignoring many others.

Kill innocents in a school or theater in large numbers, and the media will fixate on the tragedy while Democrats wail about America's "gun culture."

Shoot a minority who's wearing a hoodie and the left twists the story into something it isn't while the media turn the shooter into a "white" man, though he, too, is a minority — and an Obama supporter with a mixed ethnic background.

It was under these raw and highly charged circumstances that President Obama asked the CDC in January to perform the study. He was surely looking to manufacture a crisis that he could take advantage of.

What that study revealed, though, does not fit in with the media-Democrat message.

"Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals," says the report, which was completed in June and ignored in the mainstream press.

The study, which was farmed out by the CDC to the Institute of Medicine and National Research Council, also revealed that while there were "about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008," the estimated number of defensive uses of guns ranges "from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year."

Here are a few more salient points from the study:

• "Whether gun restrictions reduce firearm-related violence is an unresolved issue."

• "Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies."

• One "body of research" (Kleck and Gertz, 1995) cited by the study found "estimated annual gun use for self-defense" to be "up to 2.5 million incidents, suggesting that self-defense can be an important crime deterrent."

• "There is empirical evidence that gun turn-in programs are ineffective."

Does anyone recall this study getting extensive media coverage or the administration plugging its key findings? Of course not. It doesn't support their anti-Second Amendment, anti-gun ideology. It's therefore ignored as if it never happened at all.


http://news.investors.com/ibd-editor...#ixzz2chhWQztK

Looks like the control freaks got handed a shit sandwich on this one.

[WorldTravel69]

Watch the full preview of the movie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIZTMVNBjc4

The Largest ice berg ever? This shows that glaciers are growing (or at least that one) which means it is not warming! If there are no glaciers (and yes some are receding) forming or growing, that would show "global warming". Record breaking ice bergs shows that "global warming" is NOT happening! This is common sense. But you can't see past the lies.