American Politics during the Trump Presidency

[Member #4112]

In all of the debate over immigration, an important fact has been, and continues to be, ignored. The USA needs immigrant workers, documented or undocumented, to do the work that most Americans will not do. This has been true for over 200 years, and will be true for the foreseeable future. When the politicians find a politically acceptable solution to this stark, historical reality, we can put the immigration debate behind us. This is easier said than done, but the fact remains that If there was no opportunity to find remunerative work in the USA, alien immigration would slow to a manageable level, and we would not need an expensive wall. The demagogues could find something else to rant about.

Tres3.

Tres, I don't dispute your argument, but the catch phrase "to do the work that most Americans will not do" is a bit off putting since I have cleaned toilets; mowed lawns, picked okra, beans, berries ie stoop labor; thrown newspapers; sacked groceries; cleaned rat cages for medical studies; dug ditches and footings and sundry other low level labor. It did not pay much but it did pay something.

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say "to do the work that most Americans are to LAZY to do".

The "social safety net" is both too large and much too generous. We have too many physically able people who simply will not work and would rather be supported by the state. Perhaps the "safety net" should be reserved for those unable to work or fend for themselves but the able bodied should be off of all support and perhaps those jobs will disappear.

Hell, even Bill Clinton forced very moderate changes in the system that resulted the hundreds of thousands coming of the assistance rolls until the Obamanation used an executive order to suspend those modest requirements.

[Tres3]

In all of the debate over immigration, an important fact has been, and continues to be, ignored. The USA needs immigrant workers, documented or undocumented, to do the work that most Americans will not do. This has been true for over 200 years, and will be true for the foreseeable future. When the politicians find a politically acceptable solution to this stark, historical reality, we can put the immigration debate behind us. This is easier said than done, but the fact remains that If there was no opportunity to find remunerative work in the USA, alien immigration would slow to a manageable level, and we would not need an expensive wall. The demagogues could find something else to rant about.

Tres3.

[Member #4112]

A tax on incoming products means that we pay, not them! A tax on money transfers into Mexico is a better idea since its mostly Mexicans sending money anyway.

You are correct, money flowing from legal and illegal immigrants in the US to Mexico makes up a considerable amount of the Mexican economy. See the attached, $69 Billion, a greater portion of the GDP than oil.

A tax on those transfers seems appropriate - and "departure fee" as it were.

http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsand...oney-than-ever

[Dickhead]

When Trump was elected, I congratulated my conservative friends, and I vowed I would give him six months from the time of his election, and it's only been 4.5. I have not read the board since a few days after the election. I'm still going to give him a full six months. I have a couple of questions, though.

1) How can we reconcile the Electoral College with the concept of "one man / person, one vote?" Seems contradictory to me. One of my conservative friends posted about how the EC keeps urban areas from having disproportionate influence. Well, if people from less populous areas want more influence, couldn't they just relocate?

2) One of my liberal friends posted that we needed a constitutional amendment to abolish the EC. Seems unlikely to me. It would be like voting to give yourself a pay cut and to give everybody else a pay raise. On the one hand, I don't agree that voters in less populous states should have disproportionate influence. On the other hand, they would be insane to vote away this disproportionate influence.

I guess that wasn't actually a question. Sorry about that.

3) Mr. Trump and I agree that each and every person who is in the country illegally needs to be removed, so then to me, the question would be: if they were to be removed and then apply for re-entry on their own merit, should the fact that they originally entered illegally be:

A) not considered at all?

B) weighed against what they did positively or negatively while in the US (gainfully employed and paying into OASDI even though they would not benefit from it, versus getting arrested, etc)?, or.

C) eliminate them from consideration completely?

I would vote for "b" but they must be ejected in the meantime.

4) An issue that is frequently raised concerning Muslim immigration is that they don't seem to want to assimilate as much as other immigrants, and often begin to demand that Sharia law be followed. So:

A) Is that a legitimate concern? In other words, is it factually true that they don't assimilate as much, and is it true that they begin to demand Sharia law?

B) If it is a legitimate concern, does that justify Mr. Trump's travel ban?

I pretty much agree with his travel ban in its second iteration, although not in its first iteration due to the inclusion of permanent resident aliens. Regardless, I think it's fairly clear that immigration policy is the province of the executive branch, and not the judicial branch.

5) Should the eligibility to participate in Medicaid and to receive the current ACA subsidies or the proposed AHCA tax credits be based solely on current taxable income as currently configured, or should a person's assets be considered as well?

I think it was a big mistake for the ACA not to consider assets, and as I've stated a couple of times in years past, I'm shamelessly manipulating that. The proposed AHCA does nothing to ameliorate that. On the one hand, you don't want older folks to have to spend all their retirement funds on health care. On the other hand, there is a difference between someone with a million dollars in assets and a current taxable income of thirty thousand dollars, versus someone with little or no savings and a current taxable income of thirty thousand dollars. So I think these ACA subsidies and proposed AHCA tax credits need to distinguish between these two classes of recipients. You could, for example, look at assets and exclude an increasing amount of assets based on age, since they would be needed for retirement, without ignoring wealth completely.

6) Birthright citizenship. Should someone from Country X be able to enter the US on a tourist visa (or illegally), give birth, and have this child get automatic citizenship? The US and Canada are the only developed countries I could find that do this. Canada needs people, and the US law dated back to the Emancipation Proclamation to make sure that children of slaves had citizenship = obsolete.

So I agree with Mr. Trump that this policy needs to be changed.

5) What about the fact that Mr. Trump keeps going to Mar al Lago instead of Camp David, and that this seems to be burdening the infrastructure down there? That seems kind of rude to me, and I don't think it's appropriate since he has Camp David available.

A) Should Mr. Trump pay out of his own pocket for Mar al Lagos' and the taxpayers' cost to provide security when he goes there?

B) Should taxpayers pay for security for Mr. Trump's sons to gallivant all over the world in pursuit of the Trump family's business empire?

I'm keeping an open mind and so far I agree with about 32% of Mr. Trump's policies, which is just slightly below his overall approval rate in the latest polls. I do think he is parvenu, though.

[Gandolf50]

What a great idea, you are a genius WT. I'm with you on this one.

Put a tax on goods coming in from Mexico and round up all the illegals and force them to build the wall then deport them! No transportation costs, they just walk to the other side of the wall.

Hey Don you beat me to the punch with the Great Wall of China and them WT came back with his fantastic idea.

A tax on incoming products means that we pay, not them! A tax on money transfers into Mexico is a better idea since its mostly Mexicans sending money anyway.

[Member #4112]

It was most likely built with slave labor, not our money.

What a great idea, you are a genius WT. I'm with you on this one.

Put a tax on goods coming in from Mexico and round up all the illegals and force them to build the wall then deport them! No transportation costs, they just walk to the other side of the wall.

Hey Don you beat me to the punch with the Great Wall of China and them WT came back with his fantastic idea.

[WorldTravel69]

It was most likely built with slave labor, not our money.

Again arguing about particulars, the Great Wall of China was, with all of its branches, over 13,000 miles long. So what?

Don B.

[Don B]

Israel's wall is 152 miles.

Korea's wall is 155 miles.

The US wall would be 1,989 miles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico%E2%80%93United_States_border

Deportation: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obama...ry?id=41715661.

Again arguing about particulars, the Great Wall of China was, with all of its branches, over 13,000 miles long. So what?

Don B.

[WorldTravel69]

Israel's wall is 152 miles.

Korea's wall is 155 miles.

The US wall would be 1,989 miles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico%E2%80%93United_States_border

Deportation: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obama...ry?id=41715661.

The man has been in office for 58 days and you expect him to undue 8 years of Obama's open borders in that time?

Does a wall work? Ask Israel.

Should INS go after those who overstay their visa and deport them, absolutely. If this is your concern, then where was your anger the last 8 years under Obama? Getting rid of the worst is not a bad priority and working you way down. What seems to be the problem here.

Worried about Russia interfering in our elections, how quickly you forget Obama/Kerry/US State Department openly interfering in Israel's elections and it's not like it was the first time we have done so in other countries - it's OK if we do it but not if someone else returns the favor? It has already been shown the "Russians" did not get into any voting systems, they just exposed the hypocrites in the DNC. Even if the hacks of the DNC were by the Russians they leaked the DNC's dirty laundry so the people screaming are the one's whose ox got gored and by their own emails no less.

[Member #4112]

The man has been in office for 58 days and you expect him to undue 8 years of Obama's open borders in that time?

Does a wall work? Ask Israel.

Should INS go after those who overstay their visa and deport them, absolutely. If this is your concern, then where was your anger the last 8 years under Obama? Getting rid of the worst is not a bad priority and working you way down. What seems to be the problem here.

Worried about Russia interfering in our elections, how quickly you forget Obama/Kerry/US State Department openly interfering in Israel's elections and it's not like it was the first time we have done so in other countries - it's OK if we do it but not if someone else returns the favor? It has already been shown the "Russians" did not get into any voting systems, they just exposed the hypocrites in the DNC. Even if the hacks of the DNC were by the Russians they leaked the DNC's dirty laundry so the people screaming are the one's whose ox got gored and by their own emails no less.

[WorldTravel69]

He wants to spend tons of our money to build a Wall to keep out illegals.

There are almost the same number of Illegals that Flew in and never left.

Who's going to check the overstayed Visas.

They don't check those Yet.

[Rc Collins]

Just curious, how is the February 2017 United States Department of Labour jobs report "Obama's numbers"?

The report was in Jan 2017, hence the statement "as soon as Trump took office and the jobs report came out."

http://www.businessinsider.com/janua...t-trump-2017-2

http://thedailybanter.com/2017/02/trump-takes-credit-for-january-jobs-numbers/

[Myolta]

This is so rich, its only been 50 days, give the man a chance. How many days did the right wing attack dogs give Obama to clean up the mess he inherited? Not even a day but now they want to give Trump a chance, so hypocritical. Trump, Fox News and the people on the right complained and demeaned the job reports for 8 years but as soon as Trump took office and the jobs report came out which was actually Obama's numbers they change their tune and now are in love with the jobs report.

Yes, lets also impeach liberal judges who over reach but look the other way when hypocritical far right judges do the same, what a fair and balance stand but it is to be expected from the people on the right.

President Tweet is now a victims of wire tapping according to him, accusing his predecessor of doing so and providing no evidence of it because there is none. This pathological liar who said he is a deal maker and will bring the country together has gotten off on the wrong foot according to many including the conservative WSJ but please give him time as he will surely make things worst.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-wrong-way-trump-1474841860

Just curious, how is the February 2017 United States Department of Labour jobs report "Obama's numbers"?

[Rc Collins]

This is so rich, its only been 50 days, give the man a chance. How many days did the right wing attack dogs give Obama to clean up the mess he inherited? Not even a day but now they want to give Trump a chance, so hypocritical. Trump, Fox News and the people on the right complained and demeaned the job reports for 8 years but as soon as Trump took office and the jobs report came out which was actually Obama's numbers they change their tune and now are in love with the jobs report.

Yes, lets also impeach liberal judges who over reach but look the other way when hypocritical far right judges do the same, what a fair and balance stand but it is to be expected from the people on the right.

President Tweet is now a victims of wire tapping according to him, accusing his predecessor of doing so and providing no evidence of it because there is none. This pathological liar who said he is a deal maker and will bring the country together has gotten off on the wrong foot according to many including the conservative WSJ but please give him time as he will surely make things worst.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-wrong-way-trump-1474841860

[Big Boss Man]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/16/o...home.html?_r=0

The talent will start to move to where the money is.