Thread: Corruption in Argentina
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08-17-08 03:40 #64
Posts: 2808jajaja
Originally Posted by Julio
In most developed countries, it's against the law not only to receive a bribe but to pay one as well. Not saying good, not saying bad. I will say though that I think it harms your country, 1 dollar or 10,000 dollars. The entire culture of corruption will forever limit Argentina in it's development.
Which is great for me because, like Dickhead, I don't want to bank or own a business there, just live and fuck lots of cute girls. I hope it never changes. Bring on the next crisis!
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08-16-08 23:53 #63
Posts: 76Originally Posted by Argento
No wonder you paid U$S 10.000 of a bribe no one, with a minimun of common sense, would have ever paid.
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08-16-08 19:36 #62
Posts: 1012Originally Posted by Argento
Originally Posted by Argento
Originally Posted by Argento
Originally Posted by Argento
Andres
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08-16-08 19:26 #61
Posts: 1012Originally Posted by Mike Cockburn
Andres
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08-16-08 16:54 #60
Posts: 366Andres! A few questions.
Originally Posted by Andres
ArgentoLast edited by Argento; 08-16-08 at 16:56. Reason: Typos
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08-16-08 16:06 #59
Posts: 31Industry, was thought in terms of production. Maybe it is not the correct term, but the agriculture is a form of industry, Its production is industrialized, in its extension there are plants (factories) that make flour and oil from the seeds.
The big exporters are surely makeing a fortune. The primary fault of the tax, was that it was based on the revenue rather than the profit. That is why it was so unfair for small producers, apart from being so high.
Originally Posted by Andres
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08-16-08 15:25 #58
Posts: 1012Originally Posted by Mike Cockburn
Originally Posted by Mike Cockburn
In fact, what they did is increase it over 6% provided that the price remained at the November 2007 values. Only those values exceeding it would be taxed higher (hence the sliding tax idea) However, the media was pretty effective in convincing people that farmers are almost bankrupt.
This is just an example of how difficult is to tax middle and high class incomes. Unfortunately, when you deal with public policies, you have to take it into account.
I don't understand your mention of "industry" on your comment, unless that you consider crops as industrial goods.
Andres
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08-16-08 14:35 #57
Posts: 2808Jajaja
Originally Posted by Dickhead
Doesn't top my buddies story of the real estate agent that switched out 600 bucks on his deposit though. He had to give a 1500 dollar deposit, along with two months rent for a total of 4500 dollars. Before he came to BsAs he had gone to the Bank of America in Seattle and got 45 100 dollar bills, it was still in the bank envelope when he gave it to the agent. While he inspected the apartment he had his Argentinian wife who was 8.9 months pregnant counting money with the agent. During the counting she had to take a pee. When he got back with the agent, the agent had separated 6 bills saying they were trucho. Upon inspection they were, so one of two things happened. Either he got 6 100 dollar bills from the B of A printed on copy paper with the same serial number or the agent came to the meeting prepared to rob him if the opportunity presented itself. You can decide for your self which is more likely.
More telling about this transaction and how ingrained corruption is in the psyche of S America (not just Argentina but it is high art there) was Sofi's reaction to this story. She said "why didn't he compare them to the list?" I said "what list?" She answered the paper he had written all of the serial numbers on, or the paper he photocopied the bills on." When I told her he hadn't done that she asked "then how did he expect to get the same bills back from his deposit?" When people buy houses there do they sit in a little room in a bank and count and verify the money? I'm serious about this question. Bad you have bought a shitload of apartments, how do the mechanics of that transaction work?
She was not surprised, shocked, amazed or anything by the actions of the agent. Rather the converse, she was amazed that a man as intelligent as my friend would be so dumb to expose himself to being robbed like that. I tried explaining how long the agent would spend in jail in the EEUU for doing that but I could see that she just couldn't grasp the idea. She couldn't imagine local police coming in, then calling the Secret Service and FBI to report the debased currency, and somebody for damn sure investigating not only who tried to screw who but also the source of where the money had come from. It was just completely outside of her experience to have an expectation of justice in a crime like this. She didn't really even think of it as crime, just a smart Portenyo taking down an unwary Yanqui, she didn't like it because he is my best friend, but had it been a stranger I doubt if she would have even given it a shoulder shrug.
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08-16-08 13:21 #56
Posts: 3510I like living here too. I have a degree in Latin American history and have studied the history of the country quite thoroughly. So all this crap about not understanding why things are the way they are here is a little tough to apply to me. I have been all over the former Spanish colonies and I do understand why things are the way they are. Furthermore, I knew about the racism and corruption (and inefficiency) before I moved down here. The racism doesn't affect me since I'm white, and the corruption is a minor nuisance since I don't do banking here, or own property.
Here's the kind of shit that drives me nuts.
Carrefour Story #1: Sign says, "15% off on X, Y, and Z if you use any debit card. " X happens to be "bebidas" so I buy a bunch of booze, go to the check out counter, hand over my VISA debit card, and get no discount. "Why? " I ask. "This is not a debit card. " "It says 'debit' right on it, right here (pointing). " "Well, our system says it's a credit card. " "How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? " "Five. " "No, four, because calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg. "
I am in the express line and people are getting impatient. I tell her to get the manager. Manager agrees it's a debit card, but it's a US debit card. I agree. "So that's why you don't get the discount. " "Here is the ad. It says any debit card. It doesn't say any Argentinean debit card. " "Well, I am not giving you the discount. " "OK, I want to talk to the store manager. And, if I don't get the discount, I'm not making the purchase. " With a heavy sigh, she manually overrides the system and gives me the discount. Later one guy who was in line congratulated me. The rest were pissed.
Carrefour Story #2: I have three quarts of Brahma in the cart so I take one out so she can run the bar code, and I tell her I have a total of three of these identical items. Before I leave the store, I check the receipt. It shows one quart of Brahma but 3 dozen eggs. I only bought one dozen eggs. Eggs are 6. 09 and Brahma is 2. 50 so I am out 7. 18. In order to rectify this, I had to:
1) Go back to the register where I had to take the beer out of my backpack so it could be rung up. Yes, folks, first make the gringo pay for the beer!
2) Go to customer service, explain what happened, and wait while they call the cashier to give her a lengthy interrogation;
3) Take the credit they gave me back through the line (that's the third time through the line if you are keeping score at home);
4) Hear the mandatory request to donate the 18 centavos to Unicef since they have no monedas; and
5) Wait several more minutes for some flunky to arrive with monedas.
Fortunately, after all was said and done I discovered I had screwed them out of two bottle deposits so I had an extra 2.48 as compensation for all this bullshit.
And Daddy, didn't you get a trucho 50 at some coffee shop and threaten to sleep on the counter until they made good on it?
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08-16-08 12:26 #55
Posts: 31I see you are full of prejudices.
I am not from North America, not from Australia, nor the UK.
Ethics?
I know a lot of argentinians that bought cheap. The argentine economy would never have boosted without the devaluation. Is it ethical to be a farmer?
Originally Posted by Julio
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08-16-08 12:16 #54
Posts: 31I think they should apply taxes on more sectors and on individuals.
The tax for the rich and middle class is very low. It is a small tax haven.
I was against resolution 125. The tax was as high as 80%. That is too much! Some farmers were loosing money. They could have just increased it 10% and gotten away with it.
Overtaxation leads to poor productivity. If the industry were allowed to increase their production. The tax income would increase.
Originally Posted by Andres
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08-16-08 11:38 #53
Posts: 2808Sorry Andres
Originally Posted by Andres
Originally Posted by Julio
I learned a lot about enjoying life in the two years I lived in BsAs. How family is more important than money, how to be a better friend. In order to do that I had to first admit that what I thought I knew might be wrong, then I was ready to observe and learn. Too bad most Latins can't break through the Machista to do the same regarding building a country.
But if they did I wouldn't be able to fuck cute girls for 30 bucks so on balance, as the song says "don't go changing."
Andres nothing after the second quote was aimed at you.
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08-16-08 01:20 #52
Posts: 1012Originally Posted by Mike Cockburn
Originally Posted by Mike Cockburn
However, sound economic policies go beyond growth and recession times. You cannot change a "social agreement" just because your fundamentals are weakening. In this case, you are not dealing with the stock market but with the economy at a whole.
Andres
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08-16-08 01:08 #51
Posts: 1012Originally Posted by Mike Cockburn
For your proposal to work, the work-relations courts has to work promptly, something that doesn't happen.
Originally Posted by Mike Cockburn
Originally Posted by Mike Cockburn
Andres
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08-16-08 00:56 #50
Posts: 1012Originally Posted by Mike Cockburn
Individuals and companies doesn't like to subsidize the poor and, with the state not owning those cash-cow companies, little can you have money to spend. Just recall the fiercity of the recent farm lockout, a sector who's currently enjoying an unprecedented bonanza.
Andres